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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-15-2016, 06:22 AM by peter )

The skull of the wild male Indian tiger was one of the most robust I saw. The occiput was broken during a transport and reconstructed later. The greatest total length of the skull after reconstruction, from memory, was just under 350,00 mm., but the other measurements suggested 360,00-365,00 mm. would be closer to the mark. Reconstructing a skull takes a lot of knowledge and skill.

Skulls of wild male lions also were impressive. In most cases, they were a bit longer (up to just over 380,00 mm.). The main differences between wild male lions and wild male tigers are in the teeth (pm4 larger in lions and upper canine larger in tigers) and the width (about similar, but Indian tigers have shorter skulls). The widest skulls I saw (up to 276,00 mm.), however, were skulls of captive African male lions. For some reason, their skulls were strongly affected by captive conditions. Skulls of captive male Indian lions, on the other hand, were not. 

The occiput of Indian lions is similar to the occiput of Javan tigers (constricted). Another difference between Indian lions and their African relatives is in the mandibula. In skulls of wild male African lions, the mandibula often is convex. In skulls of wild male Indian lions, the mandibula is straighter.
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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What is the comparison between the canine teeth of the captive lions and the wild lions?

So the Indian lions got more tiger-like mandible? I saw this trait among the Pleistocene Eurasian/North American lions as well. Maybe this is a convergent evolutionary trait developed among the lions that reside outside of Africa?
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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Does anyone recognize this particular Bengal specimen?



*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States Pckts Offline
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Was that madla?
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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Looks like Madla I agree
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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That's what I thought, only his canine teeth have been officially recorded at 3 inches from the gum line.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-20-2016, 07:55 PM by peter )

TRANSNATIONAL WILDLIFE CRIME - VIETNAM (Nhi Khe) 

The link below will send you to a report published some days ago on the Dutch national news channel. The report has 2 videos. The first one, nearly 6 minutes in length, is in Dutch, but the interviews are in English. The second video, much shorter, was made in a Vietnamese village, called Nhi Khe, not that far from what used to be Hanoi (northern part of Vietnam). It has English subtitles.


a - First video  

An organisation trying to fight transnational wildlife crime recently published a report of 5 000 pages (...). It was written by people with a lot of experience in law and order. Everything they wrote is based on hard evidence. The report was handed over to the Vietnamese government. The organisation offered to assist the Vietnamese government in every possible way.

How did the Vietnamese government respond? The answer is they didn't. The organisation will now launch an offensive to force the Vietnamese government to respond. The hard way.

Why was the report handed over to the Vietnamese? The reason is it has been established, without a shadow of doubt, that Vietnam plays a very important role in transnational wildlife crime. All of Vietnam? Well, the trade is concentrated in one village (Nhi Khe), but as the Vietnamese government didn't respond at all, it has to be assumed that some politicians are strongly connected to transnational wildlife crime.

What are we talking about? We're talking about more than 500 rhinos and at least 225 tigers (...). That's 5-10% of the total number of wild tigers!  


b - Second video   

This video, most probably recorded in Nhi Khe (northern part of Vietnam), has everything you don't want to see when you're interested in wildlife and tigers. Tiger bones are offered and so are tiger skins. One skin had a length of 275 cm. without the tail.


c - Who are involved?

Dutch nationals (traders mostly) have been arrested and tried recently (not tigers, but reptiles and birds, I thought), but people who just don't care about wildlife and laws are everywhere. One reason is money. Lots of it. Another is demand. Lots of it. Quite many of those interested in 'hunting' wild animals are not afraid of publicity. Not at all.   

Any countries involved, apart from Vietnam? Although laws are not taken very seriously in many countries, South Africa in particular seems to have a big problem. The first video has an interview with a former poacher. He said the rifles needed were delivered by those paid to prevent wildlife crime (...). We're talking about rangers, police and all the rest of them. Those with helicopters (yes, rangers) than direct the poachers to the rhinos. How do they manage to smuggle everything paid for (meaning bribes) out of the country? I mean, they have police and customs, don't they? Yes, they have. Meaning many of those employed by the South African government to protect wildlife have two sources of income. Corruption at work. 

If we add the countless documentaries on lions, lion farms, outfitters, lion 'hunters' and trophy hunters I saw in the last decade, the conclusion is protection isn't taken very seriously in South Africa. Packer, however, was quite positive about that country in a recent interview. So what's the real situation? Well, chances are the situation in other African countries is even worse. And Asia? There isn't much about southeast Asia, but what I saw and read strongly suggests there are problems. Big enough to sell out everything the forests offer.          


d - Wildlife organisations    

The organisation who published the report mentioned above says the evidence they have is hard. So hard, they decided to launch a public offensive. It could have consequences for a number of countries involved in transnational wildlife crime in that some financial institutions might decide for a number of cuts. The problem is those involved in wildlife crime wouldn't be affected. Those who already struggle to make ends meet would. 

It is, therefore, about getting those profiting most from wildlife crime. Those abusing their power to profit. More important is to sideline institutions that have proven to be incapable. National government, to a degree, included if need be.


e - Conclusions and options

Russia, China, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Thailand and, to a degree, Indonesia and Malaysia, seem (quite many biologists strongly disagree) to have made some progress in protecting wild country and wild animals. They also committed themselves in St. Petersburg some years ago. The situation in many other countries, however, is less promising. And this qualification, judging from the videos, would be the understatement of the year.

What to do? Wait or act now?

If up to them, those in control in countries where crime is flourishing will not give up power. The reason is it pays. For them. This would no doubt mean the end for a number of species real soon. It would also affect the situation of many millions hardly able to make ends meet today. They are the ones doing the dirty work for them. We also know they, if apprehended, will be jailed, whereas their bosses will not. 

The alternative is skipping incompetent and corrupt institutions and allowing wildlife organisations direct access to rural and wild regions in a number of countries in southeastern Asia. If these organisations would be able to pay those working for them directly, things could take a turn for the better. This change, however, could, and no doubt would, be seen as a restart of what could be called colonialism new style.

In the end, with the system we adopted, it is about money. If used in the correct way, many people in southeastern Asia could decide to contribute to conservation in some way. Poachers could decide to be rangers and empty forests could be transformed into healthy reserves. Well-stocked forests would attract large predators and they would have no need to compete with humans.

I was going to say win-win, but those losing out would disagree and I don't want to express everything in terms of money all the time. Most unfortunately, we have to as the connection between humans and the natural world has been lost. Everything that has some kind of value is expressed in dollars these days. Just the way it is.      

 
f - The videos

Here's the link to the 2 videos. If you lose your way, just read this post again:     

http://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2132076-wildlife-crime-centreert-zich-in-een-vietnamese-straat.html
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tigerluver Offline
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Predicted Pleistocene–Holocene range shifts of the tiger (Panthera tigris)

Kitchener and Dugmore are coauthors, so you can guess what this paper is about. It essentially reinforces their conclusions from the early 2000s that there are only 2 tiger subspecies. Or you could say its saying the same thing in different way? Nevertheless, the authors were kind enough to have open access on researchgate, so give them a thanks for their efforts by giving the paper a read.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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Printed and read, but not yet digested. Many thanks and thumbs up for Kitchener and Dugmore.
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United States altaican Offline
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Hi,

Does anybody have information on the 300+ Kg wild tiger recently captured in Northern India? 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/...968392.cms

Thx,
altaican
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sanjay Offline
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Thank you @altaican for the information.

I live in lucknow, and I have visited it earlier. If this tiger is shifted to lucknow zoo and available for people viewing, I will defiantly visit to get more information
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sanjay Offline
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Well, I have contacted with one of people in my fb list. He is an old guy but he used to be in higher rank in Uttar Pradesh forest department and he has close friend in lucknow zoo.
He just send me some picture of that tiger and from any angle he does not look me 300 kg and even his head is of normal size.

LAKHIMPUR KHERI man eater tiger caught
*This image is copyright of its original author



LAKHIMPUR KHERI man eater tiger in lucknow zoo
*This image is copyright of its original author
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Shardul Offline
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How can you estimate weight from a picture, without anything to scale?
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sanjay Offline
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I am not estimating weight by image. It is just my thought. The original article state that it is more than 300kg.
I talked to the seniors who have taken care of U.P. tigers. They also said this tiger is not that big and they have seen bigger tiger than this. Also, they said to weigh more than 300kg, tiger should be longer than 9ft

Most probably, I am going to see this tiger on upcoming Monday.
Also, If we compare the tigers images, This tiger does not look any bigger to the other tigers we have seen
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United States altaican Offline
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(09-21-2016, 11:55 PM)sanjay Wrote: I am not estimating weight by image. It is just my thought. The original article state that it is more than 300kg.
I talked to the seniors who have taken care of U.P. tigers. They also said this tiger is not that big and they have seen bigger tiger than this. Also, they said to weigh more than 300kg, tiger should be longer than 9ft

Most probably, I am going to see this tiger on upcoming Monday.
Also, If we compare the tigers images, This tiger does not look any bigger to the other tigers we have seen

Hi Sanjay,

The report says "Dr Brijendra Yadav, a veterinary surgeon at Lucknow zoo who was part of the team that eventually tranquilised the big cat, said, "We were surprised at the size of the tiger. Nine feet long, the animal weighed more than 300 kg and it took a dozen people to lift it up. The body weight of the tiger was more than normal, which had slowed its movement, rendering it unfit to hunt." Also, it was not just its weight and size that slowed the tiger down. The big cat has disabilities that didn't let him hunt his normal prey -- like a cataract in one eye and a decayed right upper canine.".

I am sure Lucknow zoo must be having a few tigers. Can we be sure that the picture you posted is indeed of the captured animal?

I don't see any cataract in the eyes of the tiger in the picture you posted. In Indian zoos, would the captured tiger would be displayed to the public this soon?
Wouldn't the captured animal have some rehabilitation period in the zoo, before opening it up for display to the public?

Since you stay in the same place (Lucknow), would it be possible for you to meet the vet of the Lucknow zoo himself? 
Since it appears to be his statement that the tiger was more than 300kg.

Here is another report stating that the tiger did not fit in the cage that was initially built for him as he was too big
http://dynamitenews.com/news/detail/kher...w-zoo.html

Thx,
Altaican
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