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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

Apex Titan Offline
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(06-24-2021, 11:34 PM)Shadow Wrote: I just got private message from @Nyers.

"Hi
I still have no access to topic
Can u wrute that Batalov never and nowhere stated that the killed brown bear and the bear nicknamed Chlamyda are the same bear

And the video to which he refers was filmed at the end of 2016 - at the beginning of 2017 - before the events with the bear Chlamyda and the tigress Raschel"

"He" in second sentence means @Apex Titan

Batalov specifically mentioned that the killed brown bear was the same brown bear that was harassing the tigress 'Rashel'. And there's only one brown bear that was known for harassing the tigress 'Rashel', and thats the huge bear 'Chlamid'. No other brown bear was ever reported to harass the tigress 'Rashel', so the killed brown bear is definitely Chlamid. Who else could it be?

Batalov doesn't need to mention Chlamid's name, because he's clearly referring to the case of Chlamid harassing the tigress 'Rashel' and her cubs. Its so obvious.
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Finland Shadow Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-25-2021, 09:20 PM by Shadow )

(06-24-2021, 11:19 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 11:13 PM)Shadow Wrote: @Apex Titan

I´m not interested about old things recycled over and over again. So you can save your time with me when you do so. What I´m interested is, when something new comes up. So you don´t need to tag me to postings with old material.

Some of these accounts I posted are not "old" and "recycled", I found some of these accounts in recent years that were never posted on the old AVA forums or tiger vs bear debates. And you know it.

Quote:And if you missed my earlier postings, I have already contacted Batalov in 2019 and I asked what happened to Chlamid and he didn´t know. So when speculating with it, what happened to Chlamid, it can´t be even known if he is dead or alive today. You can speculate in one way and many others speculate in another way. I hope, that this clears up now situation. I already shared screenshot of email from Batalov, it´s in this thread, when you roll this thread backwards a bit. I suggest that you read it.

And yet you refuse to contact Batalov again.  The rest of your statement has been already addressed and explained to you by me and Peter.

Here seems to be now some kind of confusion. When I write about recycling old information, I mean old for me. I should have been more accurate with it. When you find something what you haven´t seen before doesn´t mean that it would be new for others, who have used time to learn about tigers and bears. So what you have or haven´t posted before is irrelevant in that way. And I have no idea what has or hasn´t been posted in different forums, which I´m not interested. I seek information myself, I don´t just read what some others write.

So, what I meant is, that you have posted just old things, which I  have known before and that´s why I´m not so interested. I hope, that this came clear now.

And what comes to my earlier postings, those tell how I think about those things I wrote. What you or some other think is of course a different thing. When there are a lot of unclear things and speculation, there are always different opinions. I have mine and I have expressed it quite clearly, in my opinion. And I see no reason to change anything what I have said before.

If I see something new, then I will look closer how it looks like.
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Apex Titan Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-25-2021, 11:28 PM by Apex Titan )

(06-25-2021, 09:19 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 11:19 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 11:13 PM)Shadow Wrote: @Apex Titan

I´m not interested about old things recycled over and over again. So you can save your time with me when you do so. What I´m interested is, when something new comes up. So you don´t need to tag me to postings with old material.

Some of these accounts I posted are not "old" and "recycled", I found some of these accounts in recent years that were never posted on the old AVA forums or tiger vs bear debates. And you know it.

Quote:And if you missed my earlier postings, I have already contacted Batalov in 2019 and I asked what happened to Chlamid and he didn´t know. So when speculating with it, what happened to Chlamid, it can´t be even known if he is dead or alive today. You can speculate in one way and many others speculate in another way. I hope, that this clears up now situation. I already shared screenshot of email from Batalov, it´s in this thread, when you roll this thread backwards a bit. I suggest that you read it.

And yet you refuse to contact Batalov again.  The rest of your statement has been already addressed and explained to you by me and Peter.

Here seems to be now some kind of confusion. When I write about recycling old information, I mean old for me. I should have been more accurate with it. When you find something what you haven´t seen before doesn´t mean that it would be new for others, who have used time to learn about tigers and bears. So what you have or haven´t posted before is irrelevant in that way. And I have no idea what has or hasn´t been posted in different forums, which I´m not interested. I seek information myself, I don´t just read what some others write.

So, what I meant is, that you have posted just old things, which I  have known before and that´s why I´m not so interested. I hope, that this came clear now.

And what comes to my earlier postings, those tell how I think about those things I wrote. What you or some other think is of course a different thing. When there are a lot of unclear things and speculation, there are always different opinions. I have mine and I have expressed it quite clearly, in my opinion. And I see no reason to change anything what I have said before.

If I see something new, then I will look closer how it looks like.


I have no problem if you have your opinions and make claims, the problem is though that in a serious discussion where a sound and reasonable conclusion should be made, you need to post evidence to substantiate your claims, otherwise your claims are meaningless. You also ignored my questions, criticized and accused a renowned scientific expert and researcher like Batalov of "making stories up" for entertainment. This is a big claim that you need some solid evidence to support.

You dispute the fact that tigers have been observed by experts for being vengeful and vindictive animals capable of premeditated killings, by claiming that 'Ochkarik' taking revenge is an "unrealistic option", which is a baseless claim. Evidence ( verified ) confirms that tigers do indeed take revenge on both humans and animals.

The good thing about the Extinction thread is that its well moderated, not everyone can post on here, which is good because it allows for serious discussions and debates where information and evidence can be posted, accepted and discussed without any flame wars, heated debates and pointless back and forths.

All I'm saying is, that your very skeptical about things, even when its a fact observed and documented by reliable sources, experts and researchers. I don't know why.

But if you wish to not continue this discussion on tigers and bears, then no problem. You can have your opinion, thats fine. I said my piece.
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Finland Shadow Offline
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(06-25-2021, 11:03 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:
(06-25-2021, 09:19 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 11:19 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 11:13 PM)Shadow Wrote: @Apex Titan

I´m not interested about old things recycled over and over again. So you can save your time with me when you do so. What I´m interested is, when something new comes up. So you don´t need to tag me to postings with old material.

Some of these accounts I posted are not "old" and "recycled", I found some of these accounts in recent years that were never posted on the old AVA forums or tiger vs bear debates. And you know it.

Quote:And if you missed my earlier postings, I have already contacted Batalov in 2019 and I asked what happened to Chlamid and he didn´t know. So when speculating with it, what happened to Chlamid, it can´t be even known if he is dead or alive today. You can speculate in one way and many others speculate in another way. I hope, that this clears up now situation. I already shared screenshot of email from Batalov, it´s in this thread, when you roll this thread backwards a bit. I suggest that you read it.

And yet you refuse to contact Batalov again.  The rest of your statement has been already addressed and explained to you by me and Peter.

Here seems to be now some kind of confusion. When I write about recycling old information, I mean old for me. I should have been more accurate with it. When you find something what you haven´t seen before doesn´t mean that it would be new for others, who have used time to learn about tigers and bears. So what you have or haven´t posted before is irrelevant in that way. And I have no idea what has or hasn´t been posted in different forums, which I´m not interested. I seek information myself, I don´t just read what some others write.

So, what I meant is, that you have posted just old things, which I  have known before and that´s why I´m not so interested. I hope, that this came clear now.

And what comes to my earlier postings, those tell how I think about those things I wrote. What you or some other think is of course a different thing. When there are a lot of unclear things and speculation, there are always different opinions. I have mine and I have expressed it quite clearly, in my opinion. And I see no reason to change anything what I have said before.

If I see something new, then I will look closer how it looks like.


I have no problem if you have your opinions and make claims, the problem is though that in a serious discussion where a sound and reasonable conclusion should be made, you need to post evidence to substantiate your claims, otherwise your claims are meaningless. You also ignored my questions, criticized and accused a renowned scientific expert and researcher like Batalov of "making stories up" for entertainment. This is a big claim that you need some solid evidence to support.

You dispute the fact that tigers have been observed by experts for being vengeful and vindictive animals capable of premeditated killings, by claiming that 'Ochkarik' taking revenge is an "unrealistic option", which is a baseless claim. Evidence ( verified ) confirms that tigers do indeed take revenge on both humans and animals.

The good thing about the Extinction thread is that its well moderated, not everyone can post on here, which is good because it allows for serious discussions and debates where information and evidence can be posted, accepted and discussed without any flame wars, heated debates and pointless back and forths.

All I'm saying is, that your very skeptical about things, even when its a fact observed and documented by reliable sources, experts and researchers. I don't know why.

But if you wish to not continue this discussion on tigers and bears, then no problem. You can have your opinion, thats fine. I said my piece.

Very good, now you seemed to understand. I haven't seen any evidence what comes to latest claims concerning Ochkarik and Chlamid. And because it's all speculation to different directions, there will be different opinions. You have one, I have another and someone else can have another. It's how things are sometimes. And that's why I don't start to debate because I see it pointless at this point.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 07-03-2021, 04:57 AM by peter )

SHADOW

a - About the aim of this thread

The tiger extinction thread is dedicated to tigers. Wild tigers. Tigers are elusive animals, meaning it isn't easy to study them and get to conclusions. For this reason, I, more than once, said we need to focus on good information. What is good information? Information collected by those who know, meaning biologists. In order to include as much as possible, information collected by those who hunted them a century ago and those who have personal experience with wild tigers is allowed as well. 

I'm not saying this thread offers an overview of everything known about wild tigers, but it is a serious attempt to get there. As far as I can see, it resulted in an interesting thread for those who want to know a bit more about wild tigers. Am I the only one who got to that conclusion? The answer is no. The tiger extinction thread now has close to a million views, meaning the policy to focus on good information is appreciated by many.   

b - About facts and opinions and a new member of Wildfact ('Apex Titan')

The aim of this thread, as was said above, is to focus on good information: reliable information collected by those who know. If biologists, after years of research and experience, offer an opinion on wild tigers, it will be taken serious as well. Those lacking personal experience with wild tigers have to focus on good information. No opinions, that is.   
 
You are a good poster, prepared to do a bit of work to check info considered as 'reliable' by most. It stood out. So much so, you was offered the position of moderator. You accepted and didn't disappoint. That is to say, in most respects. 

And what about your contributions in this thread (referring to posts 2,500-2,542 only)? I read post 2,500, in which you offered an opinion on an issue discussed by other members. An opinion that  was repeated later. Useful? I don't think so. 

I posted about tigress 'Rachelle', tiger 'Ochkarik' and brown bear 'Chlamyda'  (referring to post 2,518). A few posts later, a new member ('Apex Titan') started posting about tigers and bears in the Russian Far East. 

A new member calling himself 'Apex Titan'? Wasn't he 'Genghis' some years ago? A poster that was banned for fanaticism? The answer is yes, he and 'Apex Titan' are one and the same. What did 'Genghis' do after he was banned? The answer is he started his own forum. He also joined a debate on tigers and bears in the Russian Far East on Carnivora. The info he posted was interesting and his fanaticism, in my opinion, had been transformed into something I would describe as 'drive'. Did it have a result? The answer is yes. He found and posted information I never heard about. I didn't use it for the extinction thread, because I didn't want to take away the credit he deserves. 

A few weeks ago, I invited him to join the debate on tigers and bears. The condition was good info and no fanaticism.

c - About your input in the debate about tigress 'Rachelle', tiger 'Ochkarik' and brown bear 'Chlamyda' 

Did 'Apex Titan' lived up to expectation? The answer is yes. His first post (referring to post 2,523) proved to be a bait you couldn't resist. Was it intended? The answer is yes, as you also know about tigers and bears. My hope was your response would result in an interesting debate and a few conclusions. Did it happen? No. In post 2,524 you said you considered a debate on tigress 'Rachelle', tiger 'Ochkarik' and brown bear 'Chlamyda' as superfluous, if not boring. You added you wouldn't contribute. 

Did you keep your word? The answer is no. You, more than once, said it was a non-debate based on opinions only. In order to back your conclusion, you referred to the exchange with Batalov you posted some time ago. Not much later, you posted an opinion of another new member ('Nyers'). An opinion? Yes. In the two interviews published, Batalov very clearly stated the bear killed by tiger 'Ochkarik' was the same bear that had followed and robbed tigress 'Rachelle'. I will post both interviews soon. 

I also noticed you have a tendency to 'educate', if not 'lecture', our member 'Apex Titan'. You're also trying to ridicule him and trying to dismiss the info he posts. This although the info is from books written by those who know. Your last contribution in particular (referring to post 2,524) was close to outright arrogance. 

And what is the foundation of your position in the debate you said you would avoid? The answer is opinions. And what about Batalov? It's very clear, I think. In the summer of 2019, Batalov said he didn't know why brown bear 'Chlamyda' had disappeared. Almost two years later, he said he was sure brown bear 'Chlamyda' was killed and eaten by tiger 'Ochkarik'. Watch the word 'sure'. 

So what happened between the summer of 2019 and late 2020? The answer is we don't know. My guess is he found something he considers as evidence. Circumstantial evidence, but good enough to get to conclusions. Meaning we need to contact Batalov. He's the only one able to answer the questions raised. 

Do you agree with this proposal? The answer again is no. At the cost of Batalov, you made it clear you prefer speculation over anything else. Meaning 'Apex Titan', who wrote you, regarding the incident involving 'Ochkarik' and Chlamyda', only offer opinions and speculation, is spot on. 

Fitting behaviour for a member posting in the tiger extinction thread? No. Does it fit a mod? No. One could say you abused your status and be close. 

d - Conclusions

You said you're not interested in a debate about 'Ochkarik' and 'Chlamyda'. Did you keep your word? No. Inconsistent. What I read suggests you tried to prevent an exchange of information and ideas. A serious offence. If we add you only posted opinions, the conclusion is the time has arrived to leave the debate you didn't want join.  

As to your status as moderator. In my opinion, you abused your status in the 'debate' you considered a non-debate. If we add you, on top of that, tried to create animosity in the mod thread, the conclusion is we're facing a few problems.  

I still consider you a good poster, but it's clear preference entered the game. Not a crucial error, as most, if not all, posters joining discussions enter preconceived notions sooner or later. In spite of that, my proposal is to discuss a few issues. In private.
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Apex Titan Offline
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( This post was last modified: 07-01-2021, 05:27 PM by Apex Titan )

A poster I know named 'goodhope683' ( contacted me ) managed to contact Batalov, and Batalov said he's sure that Ochkarik killed and ate Chlamid. The email is from Batalov's assistant who spoke with him and reported what Batalov told her.

It seems that the huge brown bear overplayed his hand, started to follow Ochkarik, scavenge on his kills, and then Ochkarik killed and ate him for doing so.

Batalov said that he never found Chlamid's body, but at that time, he found brown bear fur and remains in Ochkarik's faeces and saw that Ochkarik fattened up and Chlamid had suddenly disappeared right after that. Batalov said he has no doubts that Ochkarik killed and ate Chlamid.

This email is consistent with this article:

"The bespectacled man somehow killed and ate a brown bear that was chasing Rachel the tigress with a tiger cub. After that, he was so inflated that Batalov could not at first understand what had happened. But then I found bear meat in tiger excrement."

https://takiedela.ru/2021/02/zoloto-tigrov/


@peter Batalov is very busy on his report about tiger monitoring, but when he responds back to 'Nyers', he'll tell him that Ochkarik did kill Chlamid. So there was no "misquotes" or "misunderstanding" like a certain someone speculated about, we have confirmation via Batalov's very own assistant, that Batalov is 100% certain that Ochkarik killed and ate Chlamid based off the evidence he saw.



*This image is copyright of its original author
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( This post was last modified: 07-01-2021, 05:26 PM by Apex Titan )

I found this eye-witness account of a tigress that stalked and killed a large male brown bear much bigger than herself.

From Kucherenko's book: "Meetings with the Amur Tiger" - 2005




*This image is copyright of its original author



( Account took place in autumn )

Of course, all my attention was riveted by the tiger. It was a female. Small, with salted nipples. I was surprised at her courage, and even self-confidence - the bear was much larger in size and had remarkable strength. It was later that I learned the reason for her courage and decisiveness: they were built on a strict calculation of their actions, surprise attack, agility and swiftness.

The tigress, of course, took care of her life for the children more than for herself, and if she decided to attack the bear, to know, there were good reasons for this and confidence in victory.

She sneaked up exactly like a domestic cat: slowly, with fading, silently moving her paws. The tigress did not take her yellow burning eyes off the victim and definitely calculated her every step towards the approach to the distance of the decisive jump.

At first there were thirty meters between them, but this distance quickly and imperceptibly halved. Then the tigress found herself behind a huge boulder, crawled for another five meters and slowly climbed onto its gentle top, spreading over it like a carpet. And turned to stone. Only the end of the tail, hanging to the back side, wriggled impatiently, betraying excitement.

There were only two tiger leaps left for the unsuspecting bear, but the striped one for some reason hesitated. And I realized that she built her calculations on a single jump. She either waited for the prey to inadvertently approach her, or was looking for a convenient moment in order to approach herself. A minute passed, another stretched. I forgot about the retreat because of the stress, although I kept my gun in constant readiness. And here it is, the right moment!  When the bear buried its head in the dug hole, the tigress jumped onto another boulder some five meters away from the "beetle" who had lost all caution.

She jumped on him from that boulder. It jumped with such a deafening roar that I completely died out. However, I clearly saw her in a jump - with her mouth wide open, her front paws spread with her claws extended In that tiny fraction of a second, the bear could only turn around and rise, but he did not have time to scatter his paws in order to embrace the enemy, as it is customary in such circumstances in a bear race. I think that it was on all this that the tiger jump was built. The predator with a strong swing of its clawed paws slashed the victim from top to bottom along its open belly, immediately dived with its head between the enemy's hind legs to its very shoulders and with a sharp jerk threw the brown hulk through itself, by its tail ... that this beast is capable of throwing so much weight twice its own.




*This image is copyright of its original author



The bear roared and rolled, more and more entangling itself with blue guts. From horror and pain, at first he did not even think to find his enemy and take revenge, which is also inherent in the bear's nature from birth. But in his last breath, he found the tigress with his eyes and crawled towards her, but crawled already with dying fading. She was lying on a boulder, whipping herself with her tail, in full readiness for another jump, the final one. However, he was not needed.

The tigress approached her prey already at dusk. There was such silence that I could hardly breathe, heard the beat of my heart and caught every step of the amba on a dry leaf. And I couldn't decide what to do. I knew that she would spot me at the first movement, and that it would have to go around that place in a considerable circle. Moreover, the tigress was agitated and very dangerous.

https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=170047&p=33


For anyone doubting the validity of this account, read this:

The author of the book is a well-known Far Eastern writer, scientist, hunting biologist, candidate of biological sciences. For many years he studied the ecology of the tiger. Stories about meetings with the ruler of the Ussuri taiga, written on factual material, allow us to learn a lot about the habits and lifestyle of a rare Red Book predator. In short stories - and pride for the magnificent beast, and compassion for his misfortunes. The author urges readers, all residents of the Amur and Primorye Territories, to respect the rights of the animal to its tiger house, to be responsible for the survival of the Amur tiger on our planet.

The collection contains the stories of Sergei Kucherenko's colleagues about their encounters with this magnificent beast.

https://www.livelib.ru/book/1001443337-v...kucherenko
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Sully Offline
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Nil to 48 in 20 years; Assam’s Manas sees amazing rise in tiger numbers

Ravaged by insurgents and rampant poaching for nearly two decades, Assam’s Manas National Park had no tigers twenty years ago. But it now boasts 48 members of the endangered species.

Results of the 12th annual camera trapping survey this year, which covered 876 sq km of the park and adjoining areas with cameras placed at 285 locations, revealed the presence of 48 tigers, of which 38 are adults, 3 sub-adults and 7 cubs.


The three-fold rise in the number of adult tigers from 10 in 2010 to 38 in 2021 is a record in tiger conservation in the country. In 2020, 30 adult tigers were recorded in the park.

Last year, Pilibhit tiger reserve in Uttar Pradesh had bagged an international award, TX2, for more than doubling the number of tigers in four years from 25 in 2014 to 65 in 2018.

“The findings have brought cheer to everyone in Manas and shows that the efforts at tiger conservation have borne fruit. We have already surpassed the World Wildlife Foundation and Global Tiger Forum’s goal of doubling tiger numbers by 2022,” said Amal Chandra Sarmah, field director, Manas Tiger Project.

“There were no tiger sightings in Manas between 2001 and 2004. In 2005, an image of one adult tiger was captured in the park in a camera trap. The present increase in population could also be attributed to the Covid-19 restrictions, which has brought down the number of visitors to the park,” he added.


The survey also recorded 37 leopards in Manas including 31 adults and 6 sub-adults. Five other species of wild cats, leopard cat, clouded leopard, marbled cat, golden cat and jungle cat, were also found in the park and adjoining areas.

“It is evident that tigers are flourishing in Manas and this significant recovery becomes a global example. Increase of breeding females and cubs signifies that Manas has proved to be a healthy breeding ground for tigers and its co-predators,” said Sarmah.

The survey also recorded 4 species of endangered, 9 species of vulnerable, 4 species of near threatened and 11 species of least concern mammals as per International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) status.


Among them are Asian elephant, hog deer, hispid hare, wild buffalo, rhino, sambar deer, swamp deer, spotted deer, barking deer, Himalayan black bear, Himalayan serow, Goral, black panther and binturong.



“Better management and protection measures have resulted in an increase in tigers in Manas, which is a positive sign. But in coming years, focus should be given on management of the prey base, so that deaths due to infighting don’t take place,” said Bibhab Talukdar, CEO of Aaranyak, a wildlife NGO associated with the survey.


Few deaths due to infighting among tigers are recorded every year in Assam’s Kaziranga National Park and Tiger Reserve (KNPTR), which has a population of 111 tigers according to a 2017 census.
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India Ashutosh Offline
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@Sully, great news. Historically, Manas not Kaziranga was considered an absolute haven for wildlife. Both got UNESCO world heritage status in 1985. But, insurgency meant that it was absolutely  hollowed out of any wildlife. Manas is the original home to Asia’s big 5: Elephant, Rhino, Water Buffalo, Gaur, Tiger. Also, with Royal Manas in Bhutan being contiguous, you get two absolutely varied landscapes and an amazing variety of wildlife. 

Good to see it bouncing back.
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Sully Offline
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I'm sure we've all heard the claim that a tiger's roar can paralyse creatures that hear it within close proximity, and I like many have been sceptical of this claim. This video however makes me revaluate my stance somewhat, as at maximum volume with headphones on it's genuinely frightening and I at the very least could feel my chest tighten. I wouldn't go as far as paralysis but I could see how it would be possible if you were actually face to face with a tiger in the wild + the element of surprise. Nothing scientific about this of course but I was wondering if any of you guys felt the same playing this audio with headphones on at maximum volume.




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( This post was last modified: 08-29-2021, 06:45 PM by Apex Titan )

Amur tiger vs Ussuri brown bear - Fights & Outcomes

When an adult male tiger and adult male brown bear fight, often these battles are fierce, prolonged and close to unpredictable, both are very powerful animals that are capable of killing each other. However, despite the risks, these animals do clash and fight from time to time, whether over a kill-dispute or when a tiger deliberately attacks a brown bear when hunting it. When reviewing all the fight statistics, accounts and testimonies from experienced biologists, zoologists, naturalists, hunters and locals, it shows that the tiger is the usual winner against a brown bear in a fight.

Often fight statistics don't mention details about either animals gender, age or condition. But there's also no doubt, that male tigers and male brown bears do fight from time to time, based on reliable information and testimonies from expert authorities, as well as local hunters.

According to scientific literature, ( studies ) there are no fully detailed accounts of fights between adult male tigers and adult male brown bears, however, there is reliable information that comes close to that and indicates who wins more often than not between adult males of both species.

On average male Ussuri brown bears are heavier and more robust than male tigers, but male tigers are of similar size and also much faster, explosively powerful, more agile, more lethally armed for killing ( much larger and thicker canines, razor-sharp dexterous claws ), have stronger bite force and are far more adept and experienced killers. The largest male Ussuri brown bears weighing 400 - 600 kg would be stronger ( referring to brute strength, not power ) than male tigers. The tiger is more powerful and explosive though.

This is basically a match between weight, robustness and brute strength ( male brown bears ) vs speed, power, weaponry, agility, experience and killing skills. ( tigers ) An epic match-up that can go either way, but the question is, who usually wins? ....

The best and most reliable way to get to some kind of conclusion is to refer to the experienced Russian experts, biologists and local hunters.

Most of the following information is recent evidence I found. Old fight statistics that have been debated and discussed countless times on other forums will not be included in this post.

So what happens when these two titans clash?


*This image is copyright of its original author




Sergei Kucherenko - Tigers vs Very large male Brown bears

Kucherenko, ( A well-known Russian biologist, scientist & expert on predatory animals of the Ussuri taiga ) reported that in fights between tigers and very large brown bears, these battles are bloody, fierce and dangerous to both animals, but more often the tiger wins:


*This image is copyright of its original author


https://www.m24.ru/articles/lekcii/05052014/42860


Originally reported in his book here:  In addition....

Kucherenko also notes that in a fight against a brown bear, the tigers aim is to finish the fight as quickly as possible because it "fizzles out" ( loses stamina ) quicker than the more "hardy" bear. The longer the fight goes on, the more chances the bear gets. But from the evidence, statistics and his testimony, tigers, more often than not are able to kill a huge brown bear in a fight before the tiger tires out.

http://animalkingdom.su/books/item/f00/s...t012.shtml



RUSSIAN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT / REPORTER 'MK' 

Russian reporter 'MK' took part in an investigation and hunt with leading Amur tiger expert 'Pavel Fomenko'. In his report, he stated that Amur tigers fight with adult bears and almost always win. One tiger killed a bear and dragged its carcass for several kilometers:


*This image is copyright of its original author


https://www.mk.ru/social/2014/12/18/v-kh...00-kg.html



American Naturalist, Joseph Kullman's Research on Animal Fights

"American naturalist 'Joseph Kullmann' set out to find out who is the best in the animal world. He studies all cases of one-on-one fights and identifies features that help to win. Some of the stories included in the book, we bring to your attention."

According to his research and sources, hunters of the Primorsky Territory talk about the fights between tigers and brown bears, in which tigers usually win, and not only more often defeat brown bears in fights but also specifically hunt "clubfoot" brown bears.


*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.eg.ru/society/15083/



MOSCOW SOCIETY OF NATURALISTS

Referring to fights between tigers and brown bears:

"The outcome of the struggle is often decided in favor of the tiger, but cases when the bear managed to kill the enemy are also known."

https://www.google.com/search?safe=stric...CSDeRl8k0g


JOHN VAILLANT - AMUR TIGER VS BROWN BEAR

Many people are already aware of John Vaillants account on tigers and bears, although this is not new info, what he stated is interesting and shows how vindictive and aggressive Amur tigers are towards brown bears and the risks tigers are willing to regularly take by attacking and killing a dangerous opponent such as a brown bear.

Vaillant traveled to the Russian far east and interviewed many experts, biologists, zoologists, naturalists, hunters, rangers and locals. His statements are based on first-hand info from experts he interviewed, as stated in his book:

"This is a book about Russians and their tigers, and much of the information in it comes from Russian sources, including many interviews."

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WGvV...gqTB-d&sig=


According to biologists, hunters and natives, Amur tigers sometimes pick fights with brown bears and brutally kill the bears to the point of tearing the bear apart, limb from limb, and scattering its appendages across the battle ground. Such scenes and descriptions go a long way to explaining why the indigenous peoples of the Amur-Ussuri region, refer to the tiger - not the brown bear - as the "Czar of the forest" aka "Lord of the taiga."


*This image is copyright of its original author

https://books.google.co.uk/books?dq=lev+...2&sa=X&sig=




*This image is copyright of its original author




Amur tiger vs Brown bear - Recent Opinions of Russian Experts and Specialists

Recently ( 2020 ) Russian experts and biologists from the 'Amur Tiger Center' gave their take on a fight between a tiger and huge male brown bear weighing 400 - 600 kg. According to the experts opinions, a large male tiger would likely kill any brown bear, no matter how big, in a fight.

Here's the experts statement:

"An adult brown bear is far more massive than the Siberian tiger. It can reach 400, 500, sometimes 600 kg in weight. Tigers do not grow to this size, but they compensate for their lower weight with more developed hunting skills. In other words, a tiger knows better how and where to bite to kill it’s prey. Both predators seem to realize each other’s strength and prefer to keep armed neutrality. Conflicts happen when a hungry bear tries to take the food away from the tiger. Or if one of the opponents realizes his superiority."
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
"And what if a conflict is inevitable? Specialists have collected some data: about half of the fights end up with deadly wounds for both predators. Other fights end equally with the tiger's or bear's victory."
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
"Result of a brawl depends on the size and weight of animals. A large bear has more chances against a tigress or a small tiger. Large adult male tiger is likely to win against any bear."



*This image is copyright of its original author



https://www.instagram.com/p/B9WE1B0IvUq/...e=ig_embed

https://livebir.ru/siela-miedviedia-i/


A news website from Russia ( RUSSIA BEYOND ) recently published an article on the topic of a fight between a tiger and a Brown bear. And who wins. 

General director of the Amur tiger center, Sergey Aramilev was also interviewed on the subject. Here's his take....

Interestingly, according to Aramilev, a fight between a very large male brown bear and tigress or small tiger ( young tiger ) is an equal fight, or even slightly in favor of the bear. An adult male tiger would kill a very large male brown bear in a fight. Naturalists also favor the tiger over a huge male brown bear in a fight, due to the fact that tigers are accustomed to killing. i.e. A far more skilled and experienced killer.

Russian zoologist, Timofei Bazhenov also stated: “I am often asked: If a tiger met a brown bear in the taiga, who would win? As a rule, the tiger."




*This image is copyright of its original author


https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/331578-fi...er-grizzly



Yuri Dunishenko - Amur tiger vs Brown bear

Dunishenko, a senior researcher, biologist and specialist on Amur tiger ecology, in his new book: "Amur tiger - the Uncrowned Lord of the Taiga" gave his take on a fight between a tiger and very large brown bear.

His statement:

"A tough showdown happens extremely rarely: when a "buryak" (brown bear), who believes in his impunity, tries to take away prey from a more successful hunter."

"There is a lot of blood and wool at the site of the fight. The outcome of the fight is largely determined by the size and weight of the animals. A very large bear has more chances against a tigress or a small tiger. When meeting with a large adult tiger, the bear already has less chances."




*This image is copyright of its original author





Dunishenko also notes that fights happen rarely because usually tigers just growl, and animals get frightened and the problems over:

"As for the forest animal, the tiger has such neighbours, there are no special problems. The king, he is the king - growled and the incident was over."



*This image is copyright of its original author



http://amur-tiger.ru/data/files/files/am...ressed.pdf



According to WWF Russia, brown bears usually don't survive in fights against young, inexperienced tigers and tigresses:

These brown bears can be as big and heavy as Amur tigers. And the tiger knows that the bear is his only real enemy in the forest. Young inexperienced tiger or tigress may die in the fight with the bear, but usually the bear also does not survive the struggle. So why do they fight? Tigress has to defend the cubs from the enemy, and the young tiger fights for the land and the right to be the master of it."

http://en.tigerstrail.ru/at-first-hand/



Fights & Interactions at kill-sites - Outcomes



*This image is copyright of its original author




Tigers and brown bears fight over kill-disputes sometimes, these battles can be very fierce and violent. But what usually happens when an adult tiger encounters an adult brown bear at a kill- site?  

Russian biologist, Matyushkin ( Who studied tigers and bears in the wild for several decades ) personally informed German zoologist, Bernhard Grzimek that when adult tigers encounter brown bears at kill-sites, the bear almost always surrenders its meal to the tiger. 

Grzimek notes, that before Matyushkin told him that, he would have bet his money on the brown bear, but changed his mind after Matyushkin told him that.

"Apart from humans, the Amur tiger has no enemies that could pose a threat to it. At the very most, a few unsupervised young animals might fall victim to the brown bear. When adult tigers encounter bears, surprisingly, Matyushkin reported, the bear almost always surrenders its meal to the tiger."..

"Before he told me that, I would have bet my money on the bear, but he followed tiger tracks on ski's for several winters, and he should know."



*This image is copyright of its original author



Matyushkin's observations could explain why modern scientific research ( Seryodkin, Miquelle, Kerley, Goodrich, Petrunenko ) have never found or reported a single case in the past 25+ years, of a large male brown bear contesting or usurping the kill of an adult male tiger at a kill-site. In fact, all the evidence and research shows that big male brown bears specifically ( Occasionally ) target only tigresses with cubs and strictly avoid adult male tigers. In general, (most cases) bears wait for the tigress to finish eating and leave before scavenging the left-overs of the kill.

So do adult male brown bears back down and surrender their meal to adult male tigers at kill-sites?  According to Matyushkin's observations, it seems they do.

Grzimek's statement is clearly not referring to tigresses vs brown bears or male tigers vs female brown bears at kill-sites. He specifically states that before Matyushkin told him that, he would have backed the bear, which indicates that he's referring to adult male brown bears against tigers.


In the book: "Tigers in the Snow", Matthiessen states: "Bears prefer to contest the much smaller female tigers, lest it become an item of tiger diet."





*This image is copyright of its original author




https://archive.org/details/tigersinsnow...f+the+snow


This statement is confirmed by modern scientific research and studies which show that brown bears, large males in particular, contest only smaller female tigers and avoid male tigers due to the high risk of being killed and eaten by the male tiger. According to Russian biologist 'Alexander Batalov' the huge male brown bear "Chlamida" was killed and eaten in a similar scenario by the male tiger "Ochkarik".

But its important to remember, although male tigers win most fights against large male brown bears, the outcome of these battles does vary depending on the situation and individuals involved. A large male brown bear is a powerful foe for any tiger, so the tiger won't always win.

According to this source, the outcome of a fight between a tiger and large brown bear varies:




*This image is copyright of its original author


Fights to the death between these two large formidable predators happens rarely, both animals know the risks ( referring to adult males of both species ) and simply prefer to avoid such a dangerous and risky collision. But when serious fights do happen, the evidence and reliable information strongly indicates that tigers win most fights against adult male brown bears.

John Vaillant's statement, which is based on what experts told him, also suggests that male tigers sometimes attack and kill similar-sized adult male brown bears solely on principle. 

It seems like killing skill, experience, speed, power and weaponry usually overcomes size and robustness.



CONCLUSIONS & SUMMARY BASED ON EVIDENCE AND RELIABLE INFORMATION:

1) Although the outcome of a fight between a tiger and large male brown bear varies, the evidence consistently shows that tigers are more often the winner in this battle.

2) According to Kucherenko's observations & experience, the tiger is more often the winner in a fight against very large male brown bears. He also noted that the "average tiger is always stronger than the average ( brown ) bear."

3) Most Russian experts, biologists and naturalists favor the tiger over a very large male brown bear in a fight. The large male bear stands a better chance against a tigress or small (young) tiger. ( Dunishenko, Aramilev )

4) Primorsky hunters report that tigers are the usual winners in fights against brown bears, and also hunt brown bears.

5) To the natives & locals, the tiger is the superior beast and they often come across remains of brown bears killed, eaten and torn apart by tigers.

6) According to experts and specialists, the tiger being a more adept killer gives it the edge in a fight against a huge male brown bear, which compensates for the size difference.

7) All the fight statistics, although often lacking details, favor the tiger. Some statistics ( Rukovsky ) show that the tiger dominated the brown bear in fights.

8) Young, inexperienced tigers and tigresses may die in a fight with a brown bear, but usually the bear also doesn't survive the struggle.

9) According to biologist Matyushkin's observations, brown bears almost always surrender their meals to adult tigers at kill-sites.

10) Full-grown adult males of both species usually avoid serious fights with each other.

Note: This is a summary of the recent info I found on tiger and brown bear conflicts. I never found any evidence that indicates that the brown bear would be the usual winner in a fight against a tiger. No fight statistics either. Expert opinions / testimonies, accounts and fight statistics are overwhelmingly in the tigers favor.

To be continued - Tiger predation on Bears in Russia coming up......
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Sully Offline
Ecology & Rewilding
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Recent Evolutionary History of Tigers Highlights Contrasting Roles of Genetic Drift and Selection

Abstract

Species conservation can be improved by knowledge of evolutionary and genetic history. Tigers are among the most charismatic of endangered species and garner significant conservation attention. However, their evolutionary history and genomic variation remain poorly known, especially for Indian tigers. With 70% of the world’s wild tigers living in India, such knowledge is critical. We re-sequenced 65 individual tiger genomes representing most extant subspecies with a specific focus on tigers from India. As suggested by earlier studies, we found strong genetic differentiation between the putative tiger subspecies. Despite high total genomic diversity in India, individual tigers host longer runs of homozygosity, potentially suggesting recent inbreeding or founding events, possibly due to small and fragmented protected areas. We suggest the impacts of ongoing connectivity loss on inbreeding and persistence of Indian tigers be closely monitored. Surprisingly, demographic models suggest recent divergence (within the last 20,000 years) between subspecies and strong population bottlenecks. Amur tiger genomes revealed the strongest signals of selection related to metabolic adaptation to cold, whereas Sumatran tigers show evidence of weak selection for genes involved in body size regulation. We recommend detailed investigation of local adaptation in Amur and Sumatran tigers prior to initiating genetic rescue.
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Sully Offline
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Pretty interesting. Reintroduced tigers in Sariska were judged by locals to be more bold, and less afraid of humans than the extinct population before them. Overall, they didn't give way to people the way the previous population did.

An excerpt: Participants generally agree that people and tigers traversed the landscape for the last several decades without high levels of human-tiger conflict because “The old tigers … were not dangerous for us…. They used to run away [when they heard] human voices.” While the new tigers, “they don’t run. They don’t fear us” (Male, ~2 km from Sariska). An older woman in the group retold a similar story, saying “if we encounter them then they don’t leave our way, they just block our path, they are not like the old tigers” (Female, ~2 km from Sariska).

Human-Tiger (Re)Negotiations: A Case Study from Sariska Tiger Reserve, India

Abstract:


This case study explores the reintroduction of tigers to Sariska Tiger Reserve in Rajasthan, India, highlighting how the (re)negotiation between people and tigers is a struggle rooted in place and territory, with boundaries co-constructed by human and nonhuman actors. While the reintroduction came only three years after the official admission of complete species loss, tigers as a dominant force on the landscape were absent for more than a decade in some places. Accordingly, the people of Sariska see the reintroduced tigers as foreigners without place-knowledge and as disturbers of the interspecies boundaries created by the interactions of Sariska’s original tigers and many generations of local people. This study speaks to conservation sciences and animal geography to contribute to the scientific knowledge of the human dimensions of rewilding, still a nascent area of restoration ecology specifically in the case of apex predators in the global south.
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( This post was last modified: 08-20-2021, 04:58 AM by Apex Titan )

Recent scientific research from China shows that Siberian tigers dominate and depress Brown bear and Black bear populations

"The Siberian tiger is called the "King of the Jungle" and is a world-class endangered species."

"Taipinggou Nature Reserve in Heilongjiang Province is an area where a variety of large and medium-sized beasts, including brown bears and black bears, are concentrated in my country. In recent years, many Siberian tigers have crossed the river from Russia across the river into the Taiping Valley, making the food chain in the reserve more complicated."

"In this area where a variety of top carnivores are concentrated, with the arrival of the "king of the jungle" Siberian tiger, the original food chain of the forest area has also undergone natural succession adjustments."

"Tigers eat bears, it seems that this is only a case. However, as many Siberian tigers enter the Taipinggou and even the Xiaoxing'an Mountains area, what changes will happen to the animal community in the jungle requires further monitoring and research. What is visible to the naked eye is that the frequency of bears has indeed dropped significantly."

"After the arrival of the Siberian tiger, the number of bears has really changed a lot. Before the Siberian tiger came, the infrared camera could always detect black bears and brown bears. After the first Siberian tiger came to our reserve, after several years of monitoring, it was found that the number of brown bears and black bears was gradually decreasing."



*This image is copyright of its original author


"This may also be reflected in the fact that among the same top predators, bears still have a fear of tigers or have a certain impact on the distribution of bears."

"Liu Fang, Associate Researcher of the Chinese Academy of Forestry: It can be predicted in the future that the more tigers, the predation of black bears should increase. As far as the population of black bears is concerned, it is a regulating effect."

https://translate.google.com/translate?s...155_1.html







Summary:

A healthy population of brown bears and black bears was regularly being observed and captured on infrared cameras by scientists and researchers. As soon as tigers started to enter the reserve, researchers noticed that the population of bears dropped significantly. They then found the remains of a bear killed and eaten by a tiger.

According to researchers and experts, bears fear tigers and tigers have a regulating affect on the population of bears. The tiger being the dominant carnivore and apex predator of the ecosystem, has a certain impact on the distribution of bears. With the arrival of the Siberian tiger, the bears have been displaced from the top position in the food-chain and now become prey of the tiger.

Researchers predict that the more tigers that come into the reserve, the predation on bears shall increase. What further changes will happen to the animal community in the jungle remains to be seen.
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( This post was last modified: 09-17-2021, 03:06 AM by Apex Titan )

Amur tiger Predation on Bears in the Russian Far East - PART 1

The Amur tiger is at the pinnacle of the food-chain, the top of the ecological pyramid and the apex predator of the entire Far Eastern taiga. Therefore, the health and state of the entire Far Eastern nature depends on a healthy tiger population. Being the dominant carnivore and top predator in the ecosystem, the tiger often kills and eats other medium to large carnivores such as brown bears, Himalayan black bears and wolves.

Throughout most of its range in the wild ( North America, Alaska, Canada & Europe ) the brown bear is considered to be an 'Apex predator' at the top of the food-chain, but what makes the Amur-Ussuri region unique is that even a large, powerful apex carnivore like the brown bear is displaced from the top position in the food-chain and becomes prey of the Amur tiger. - A giant predatory feline that has reigned supreme in the forests of the Amur-Ussuri taiga since the Prehistoric Pleistocene.

This tiger food-chain diagram shows that the Amur tiger is at the top of the food-chain, with no natural enemies and directly preys on the primary carnivores and herbivores:


*This image is copyright of its original author


https://www.bioexplorer.net/what-do-tige...rian_Tiger


For this reason, the Amur tiger is the most feared beast in the taiga. It is known to hunt, kill and eat every creature in the taiga from seals, eagles, ducks, fish, ungulates, wolves and bears. As the Russian tiger expert / zoologist N.A. Baikov stated: "There is no creature in the Manchurian taiga that is guaranteed against attack from this terrible predator, starting from the bear and finishing with the hare ." ( "The Manchurian Tiger" - Baikov ).

Russian scientist, zoologist & naturalist 'Sergey Ivanovich Ognev' also made note that even such a powerful inhabitant of the forest as the bear, is not safe from attack by the tiger:


*This image is copyright of its original author


The following information in my posts will finally debunk and clear-up the old myths and misconceptions surrounding this topic. What size of bears do tigers hunt? How often do tigers hunt adult bears?  Do tigers mostly hunt hibernating bears? Do tigers mainly hunt young bears & cubs? Do tigers mainly target sick, old and unhealthy bears? Do tigers habitually hunt bears? ...

All these questions will be answered with irrefutable evidence, research and studies from leading experts, biologists, zoologists, naturalists, scientists, ecologists & researchers.

How often do tigers hunt adult bears?

Some posters, especially bear enthusiasts, claim that tigers mainly hunt young bears ( juveniles, sub-adults, cubs ) and "rarely" prey on adult bears. But this claim is based on no evidence and is just pure guesswork. Recent scientific research and studies show the exact opposite. Tigers regularly prey on adult bears, so much so, that biologists like Dale Miquelle had to change their opinion ( previous assertions ) on tigers hunting bears. Risk of injury was "too high" for tigers to regularly predate on bears he previously assumed, but he later found out he was wrong.

Miquelle and Kerley's research ( 2015 ) showed that tigers, more often than previously assumed, hunt and kill dangerous prey like bears on a regular basis, especially during the summer months. In fact, tigers consumed more bears than wild boars during the snow-free period. Their studies suggested that bears ( brown & black ) are a seasonally important prey item for tigers and make up a large portion of tiger diet during the summer months. Tigers often hunt bears in autumn too.

According to the Siberian Tiger Project ( chapter 19 ) researchers found far more adult bears, both brown and black bears, killed and eaten by tigers than young bears or cubs. Now if tigers "rarely" hunt adult bears and mostly target young bears and cubs like some people assume, then how comes biologists found mostly adult bears hunted and killed by tigers during this study?  How comes more recent studies from the same biologists again indicates that tigers regularly hunt and kill adult bears in the summer months?  How comes studies from other Russian biologists and researchers also show that tigers often hunt adult bears?

Scientific research from various experts clearly debunks this misconception, and confirms that adult bears are hunted and killed by tigers far more often than many people assume. Since tigers prefer to hunt large prey animals, an experienced bear-hunting tiger also often hunts large bears too, as an adult bear provides the tiger with a lot of meat.

Russian biologist & tiger ecologist  - Konstantin Tkachenko reported that when tigers hunt brown bears, male tigers more often hunted adult brown bears. The tigress nicknamed "Three-toed" hunted young, smaller brown bears:

"The feces of tigers contained wool and small fragments of brown bear bones. Male tigers more often hunted adults, larger animals, Three-toed (tigress) - on young, smaller ones."



*This image is copyright of its original author


https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya...stvovaniya


"For example, the tigress had a clear distinctive feature - three toes on her hind paw, for which she was given the conditional nickname "Three-toed". This mark was quite well noticeable on the tigress's paw prints, which very well distinguished her tracks from those of other tigers." ( Tkachenko, 1996, 2004 )

https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/koshac...apovednika

Although tigresses can and have hunted and killed larger brown bears, (Bromley, Kucherenko) tigresses more often prey on smaller bears, but adult male tigers have the size, power and strength to regularly hunt and kill full-grown adult brown bears. According to Tkachenko's observations in the Khekhtsir Reserve, male tigers more often hunted and killed adult brown bears. i.e. Adult female brown bears are usually hunted.


A comparison of food habits and prey preference of Amur tiger at three sites in the Russian Far East

Across all sites, tiger diet varied seasonally, with tigers consuming more bear, and less wild boar biomass during the snow-free months.

In addition, bears constituted a significantly higher proportion of tiger diet in the summer, and while not significant, badgers increased in the diet of tigers during the snow-free period as well...

The increased predation on bears and badgers is likely due to their increased availability following emergence from hibernation and the increased vulnerability of their young, although tigers do prey on adult bears. Amur tiger predation on bear is not a new phenomenon, but our results, in addition to identifying seasonality in tiger predation of bears, also suggests that bears constitute a relatively large portion of tiger diet, particularly during the snow-free period. This runs counter to previous assertions that the risk of injury was too high for tigers to regularly predate bears. (Miquelle et al. 2010).

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dal...r-East.pdf

Now if tigers usually hunted young bears or cubs, then why did Miquelle state that his findings ran counter to his previous assertions of bears being too risky for tigers to regularly predate on?  Young bears and cubs are easy pickings for tigers to kill and eat all the time, so why did Miquelle specifically mention the risk of injury being "too high" ?

This strongly indicates that tigers are hunting adult bears ( that pose some risk ) more often than some biologists previously assumed. Judging from other studies, this clearly seems to be the case. In the reserve and region that biologist Tkachenko worked in, tigers hunted and killed adult brown & black bears. Himalayan black bears of all ages and genders fall victim to tiger predation all year round. Brown bears are primarily hunted by tigers during the summer and autumn months.


Predation on Himalayan black bears


*This image is copyright of its original author


The Ussuri black bear ( Asiatic black bear ) of the Russian Far East is the largest subspecies of Asiatic / Himalayan black bears on earth. Adult male bears can weigh 180 - 200 kg, in spite of their large size and aggression, adult male black bears are frequently hunted and eaten by tigers. Tkachenko reported that individuals of all ages and genders are hunted by tigers. For this reason, most black bears, including mature adult male bears, greatly fear tigers and are well known to flee up tree's as soon as they sense a tigers presence or see a tiger.

Interestingly, I have found much more cases of tigers killing adult male black bears than female bears. 

The main predator of U. thibetanus is the Siberian tiger (Panthera tigris). The fact that tiger kills are a favorite food of U. thibetanus leaves it susceptible to tiger attacks when the tiger returns to its kill and finds the bear feeding on the carrion. (Than, et al., 1998)

Asiatic black bears are the prey of Siberian Tigers. Asiatic black bears feed upon the carrion that the tigers kill, and if the bears are caught while feeding, they are killed and eaten by the tigers.

https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Ursus_thibetanus/

Specific Features of Feeding of the Amur Tiger Panthera tigris altaica (Carnivora, Felidae) in a Densely Populated Locality (with Reference to Bol’shekhekhtsirskii Reserve and Its Environs). K.N. Tkachenko, 2012

Adult Himalayan black bears ( both sexes ) regularly hunted and eaten by tigers:

Himalayan black bears ( individuals of any age and sex ) were more frequently attacked by tigers (Tkachenko, 2008). Two Himalayan bears—tiger’s prey—found in the reserve appeared to be adult (one of them male, the other, presumably, female). Claws of adult bears were also found repeatedly in the excreta of tigers. According to observations in Bol’shekhekhtsirskii Reserve, the tiger successfully hunted the Himalayan black bear at any time of the year.

The suggestion that the tigers attack bears only when there is an insufficient amount of its usual food—boar and Manchurian wapiti—(Rukovsky, 1968) is not quite correct since attacks take place also at their high numbers.  Male tiger A specialized on hunting Himalayan black bear. The remains of two bears of this species found by us are its prey. In excreta (n = 56) of this individual collected from 1992 to 2000, bear remains comprised 31.6%, in particular, that of the Himalayan black bear, 22.8%; that of brown bear, 7%; and that of bear not determined up to species, 1.7%.

From November to March, the occurrence of the Himalayan black bear in the feeding of tiger was 22.7% and from April to October, slightly lower, 16.7%. Brown bear, on the contrary, in the cold time of the year was recorded much more rarely (2.7%) than in the warm time ( 16.7% ).

In Lazovsky Reserve in the feeding of the tiger, only Himalayan black bear was recorded (Zhivotchenko, 1981; Khramtsov, 1993). According to other studies performed in middle Sikhote-Alin, it attacks this species more seldom than the brown bear (Bromlei, 1965; Kostoglod, 1977; Seryodkin et al., 2005). Apparently, such a contradiction is explained by the difference of individual ecological conditions in areas where studies were performed. However, the fact that the Himalayan black bear of any sex and age is a typical prey of the tiger is obvious (Sysoev, 1960, 1966; Gorokhov, 1973; Kostoglod, 1977, 1981; Khramtsov,1993; Seryodkin et al., 2005; Yudin and Yudina, 2009; author’s unpublished data).

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Sp...be361da82a

So depending on region, ecological conditions and areas, sometimes tigers prey on brown bears more often than Himalayan black bears and vice versa. 


Russian zoologist N.A. Baikov reported that tigers will even mimic the mating call of a female black bear in order to lure the male black bear to him:


*This image is copyright of its original author


https://archive.org/details/bears00perr?q=bears

There are several other reliable sources reporting that tigers imitate the call of bears in order to lure them into an ambush. Tigers are well known to do this with red deer too.


Amur tigers actively hunting Brown bears and Black bears:

The male often hunted bears, mainly Himalayan. In his excrement, wool, small fragments of bones, skin from the paw pads and the claws of a Himalayan bear were repeatedly found. The feces of tigers contained wool and small fragments of brown bear bones. Male tigers more often hunted adults, larger animals, Three-toed - on young, smaller ones."

https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya...stvovaniya


The incidence of bear remains is high in tiger feces - 37.0% (table). Kaplanov (1948, p. 26) wrote that a tiger specializing in hunting bears can find them at any time of the year and in the required quantity. "During tracking, we found three prey of a male tiger: a young boar (II 1993), an adult male Himalayan bear and a male red deer (II 1995). 

https://books.google.ru/books?id=7QIzAAA...8Q6AEISzAH



*This image is copyright of its original author



Adult male Himalayan black bear killed and eaten by a radio-collared tiger:


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author


https://russia.wcs.org/en-us/About-Us/Pu...ecies.aspx


When tigers hunt Himalayan / Ussuri black bears, they readily prey on all individuals, including full-grown mature male bears. Baikov reported that large tigers successfully prey on bears of similar size. 

Here's an adult male Himalayan black bear ( Common tiger prey ) from the Lazovsky Reserve, Primorye region:






Because tigers heavily predate upon Asiatic black bears, the bears spend most of their time in nests up in the tree's to be safe from tiger attacks. When on the ground and they encounter a tiger, the bear immediately flee's up the nearest tree to escape from the tiger. ( Baikov, Kucherenko, Heptner, Sludskii, Aramilev, Dunishenko, Batalov etc )


*This image is copyright of its original author




*This image is copyright of its original author


https://www.mammalwatching.com/wp-conten...017-MW.pdf


Kucherenko found the remains of a male black bear that was killed and torn apart by a tiger. The bear tried to escape up the tree, but was pulled off the tree by the tiger and killed: 

"On another occasion I managed to see large pieces of freshly torn bark of a tree, and nearby - the bloody remains of a torn and eaten black bear. On the trail, one could assume that a split second was not enough for him, the tiger managed to grab him by the hind leg and pull him down along with the bark."

https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=559283&p=1


Predation on Brown bears


*This image is copyright of its original author



According to modern scientific research, biologists have observed and reported that tigers successfully prey on full-grown, prime (large) female brown bears and young adult male brown bears. In the Khekhtsir and Durminskoye Nature Reserve, Khabarovsk territory, male tigers often hunt adult brown bears in summer.

Alexander Dolitsky, an Anthropologist, scientist, researcher & historian from the Alaska-Siberia research center, also made note that even adult brown bears are prey of the Siberian tiger:


*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.arlis.org/docs/vol1/P/262479152.pdf


Wildlife biologist / senior scientist - Joel Berger also mentioned a case of an adult brown bear that was killed by a tiger before his arrival in the Russian Far East. Another brown bear was also tree'd by a tiger:


*This image is copyright of its original author


https://archive.org/details/bettertoeatyouwi0000berg

In addition, other biologists like Kucherenko found and reported at least 7 adult brown bears ( unknown gender ) that were killed and eaten by tigers. Other Russian zoologists & researchers like Heptner, Sludskii, Bromley, Gorokhov, Kaplanov, Matyushkin etc....have also reported cases of tigers killing and eating adult brown bears. 

Among the dead animals killed by tigers, Matyushkin found the remains of an adult brown bear also killed by a tiger:


*This image is copyright of its original author



Original Russian text: ( English Translation )

"It is noteworthy, for example, that in such a site in the middle reaches of the Beloborodovsky key, where the valley is compressed by rocky slopes, and its flat bottom is cut through by narrow hollows, along with the animals that died from tigers, red deer have been found and the remains of an adult brown bear were also found, most likely also killed by a tiger."


*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/%...frontcover

Also reported in the Moscow Society of Naturalists:


*This image is copyright of its original author



https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/B...frontcover

The only thing thats not clear or confirmed, is if tigers deliberately prey on full-grown adult male brown bears. Although modern researchers and biologists never found any cases, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Remember, the vast majority of tiger kills are never found by experts or people in general. Biologists are always learning more unknown behaviour from animals they've studied for decades, and some biologists and experts still admit that they know next to nothing about tigers.

Alexander Batalov, a highly respected authority on Amur tigers, thinks that adult male brown bears are not immune from tiger predation. In fact, according to Batalov's observations, in the summer, some male tigers prey on almost any bear. He also reported that the huge male brown bear ( 350 - 420 kg ) 'Chlamida' was killed and eaten by a male tiger called 'Ochkarik', a tiger who specializes in hunting bears.

There are also other reliable accounts from the last century of large / very large male brown bears that were killed and eaten by tigers. ( Jankowski, Abramov ) But these cases were not accepted by modern scientific researchers for unknown reasons.

Large adult female brown bears ( Up to the largest and healthiest bears, Kerley 2011 ) are hunted by tigers. Biologists ( Seryodkin, Miquelle, Kerley, Goodrich etc ) found at least 5 adult female brown bears killed and eaten by tigers. 4 adult female brown bears were killed by the male tiger "Dale", who was a habitual bear-killer, and another large, 150-200 kg mature adult female brown bear was killed and eaten by a different male tiger in the summer of August, 2001.

Adult brown bears have been reported to be hunted and killed by tigers in other research by various biologists and researchers.

Note, the 150-200 kg brown bear was not killed in an ambush attack. The bear was being pursued by the tiger, being fully aware of the tiger, before being attacked and killed after a prolonged battle. The tiger sustained a minor wound. Nothing serious as the account ( description ) clearly indicates:



*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

Adult female brown bears, as reliable evidence suggests, are hunted and eaten by tigers far more often than some people think. The fact that tigers deliberately prey on full-grown adult female brown bears, especially in summer and autumn when bears are in peak condition, weight and strength, is impressive to say the least. 

What does an adult female Ussuri brown bear look like?....

Here's an adult female Ussuri brown bear from 'Land of the Leopard', Primorye region, which shows a very robust bear:  This is tiger food !



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author


From this video:







How often are Brown bears killed and eaten by tigers?

In some areas and regions, brown bears are regularly hunted, killed and eaten by tigers. Whereas in other areas, brown bears are occasionally hunted by tigers. This could be due to the fact that in the Amur region, tigers, due to man and severe prey depletion, have become very rare, whereas brown bears are abundant. So in some areas, brown bears would never encounter tigers or rarely would. So the predation on brown bears would decrease significantly in certain areas where tiger numbers are very low or rare.

"Amur tigers live in the south of the Far East, this is most of the Primorsky Territory and the south of the Khabarovsk Territory, in the Amur region they are rare."

https://ampravda.ru/2013/10/03/039794.html

But in some regions and reserves in the Primorsky & Khabarovsk territory where tiger numbers are dense, brown bears, especially in summer and autumn, are often hunted and killed by tigers. Seryodkin's data showed that the brown bears input in the tigers diet is only 1.5%. Now if brown bears are regularly hunted and eaten by tigers, how explain the 1.5% input?? Its simple, many people fail to realize that Seryodkin's data is only from one specific area of the Sikhote Alin Biosphere Reserve. 

It depends on the area of Sikhote Alin, whereas in other areas of Sikhote Alin, Khabarovsk and Primorye region, brown bears are frequently hunted by tigers and make up a large portion of the tigers diet in summer.

Seryodkins data was from a limited number of tigers from a very limited area during the study period. i.e. Limited research and data.

According to biologist Tkachenko's data, ( See above ) the brown bear made up 16.7% of the tigers diet in summer, respectably. The brown bears input in the tigers diet varies from area to area. It depends on the ecological conditions, region, season and the individual tigers involved in the study. There's many factors that can influence the results of a study. But overall, based on all scientific data, research and sources, tigers most likely kill and eat around 70 - 100 brown bears every year in the Russian Far East.

Seryodkin and senior researcher, biologist & scientist, Pikunov reported that tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality.

MONITORING, SURVEY, UTILIZATION AND THREATS TO THE POPULATIONS OF ASIATIC BLACK BEAR AND BROWN BEAR IN SIKHOTE-ALIN 

Pikunov D.G., Seryodkin I.V. 

The annual increase in the population of brown bears is approximately 38%, and natural mortality is 25-30% (Yudin, 1993). The main natural cause of their death is the predation of the tiger."

You can download the study here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%9F%D...36&bih=746

Hunting is not the only way tigers kill and eat brown bears. Sometimes catching a scavenging brown bear on its kill, the tiger attacks, kills and eats the bear. This could explain why some tigers become bear-hunters and learnt how to kill bears. Dale Miquelle also suggested the same thing.

Renowned tiger biologist & ecologist, Dr Seidenstecker mentioned that when a tiger returns to its kill and finds a wild boar or brown bear scavenging the kill, the tiger has a chance to kill another big meal:



*This image is copyright of its original author


https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/C...frontcover


Do tigers reduce Brown bear numbers?

According to reliable testimonies from those who know, this definitely seems to be the case. Recent scientific research ( 2020 ) from Northeast China has shown that Siberian tigers dominate and reduce both brown bear and black bear populations. ( See previous post ) Researchers and biologists observed that a healthy population of brown bears and black bears dropped significantly as soon as tigers started to enter the reserve. They also found a bear killed and eaten by a tiger.

Its most likely that tigers also reduce brown bear numbers in the south of the Far East, Primorsky Territory. Note, Pikunov and Seryodkin reported that tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality. ( See above )

Whats interesting, is that in the Russian Far East, brown bear numbers have only significantly increased in the Amur region, where tigers ( due to humans ) have become very rare. But in the Primorsky Krai, where most of the Amur tigers live, brown bear numbers are not that high and are low compared to other regions of the Far East which are almost devoid of tigers. One of the reasons for the brown bears numbers increasing in the Amur region, besides human hunters, is the absence of natural enemies like tigers.

"In the Amur Region, the number of bears has almost doubled in nine years. “For example, if in 2011 there were 6,380 bears in the Amur region, in 2018 there were already 11,609, and in 2020 - 12,449. The stable increase is explained by the lack of natural enemies in the species and insufficient interest from the hunters,” he explained Vladislav Khudoleev, leading specialist of the department of protection of the department for the protection of animal world of the region."

https://iz.ru/1036488/2020-07-16/chislen...v-dva-raza


"The tiger became rare due to the fault of man - in the Amur region and the Jewish Autonomy, it was simply completely exterminated."

https://ampravda.ru/2021/05/20/0104226.html

This is why Russian specialists and authorities from the Amur Tiger Center are now releasing young radio-collared tigers into the Amur region, to re-populate the region with tigers again. So far, its been a huge success. The juvenile tiger 'Boris' even hunted and killed an adult brown bear.

According to Olga Krasnykh, who operates / provides wildlife tours in the Primorye region, and the Russian scientists she knows, tigers do indeed reduce the population of brown bears in Primorsky Krai.

( Credits to 'epaiva' for contacting her & receiving this info )


*This image is copyright of its original author


Sergey Aramilev, tiger ecologist and General Director of the Amur tiger center, also stated that tigers regulate the number of bears and other predators:

"It is also important that the tiger regulates the number of other predators - wolves, bears and others who fall under its paw." - commented Sergey Aramilev , general director of the Amur Tiger Center.

http://amur-tiger.ru/ru/press_center/news/1460/

Its been mentioned that brown bears must fear tigers, as well as other enemies like humans and wolves:

"Brown bear must be afraid of enemies - humans, wolves, Amur tigers. Packs of wolves, especially in spring, when bears are weakened after hibernation, can drive a bear up a tree and wait for it to become exhausted."

https://29.mchs.gov.ru/deyatelnost/press...ti/2174662


One may ask, why do tigers depress only brown bear populations in Primorye and not Himalayan black bears? The reason is simple. Himalayan black bears seek refuge from tigers by spending most of their time high up in the tree's in nests. And when on the ground and they encounter or sense a tiger, the bear immediately flee's up the nearest tree to escape. Whereas Brown bears are simply too large and heavy to quickly climb up a tree or spend most of their time in tree's to escape or be safe from tiger predation.

Although there is an authentic account ( Joel Berger ) of a brown bear being tree'd by a tiger, they cannot do this most of the time. So the best thing for the larger brown bear to do is, is to migrate to other regions where tiger numbers are very low or scarcer, just like wolves do to escape decimation from tigers.

Russian biologists / zoologists Matyushkin, Smirnov & Zhivotchenko reported that bears are regularly taken by tigers and the brown bear falls victim to tigers more often than black bears. This is because the black bear climbs tree's to escape from tigers, whereas the larger brown bear can't, which makes them more vulnerable to tiger predation:



*This image is copyright of its original author

https://portals.iucn.org/library/sites/l...80-005.pdf

A brown bear in the forests of Primorye, that cannot escape from tiger attacks by climbing high up tree's like their smaller cousins do, in the same forest where a huge, extremely powerful and ferocious apex predator that actively hunts bears is, has a serious problem on its hands. Better to migrate to safer areas than being regularly killed and eaten.

Whats also very dangerous for the brown bear is that there's some tigers that actually prefer ( Habitually ) to hunt and eat bears over ungulate prey. Which makes the threat and risk of tiger predation much higher.

This is a fact that many people don't seem to appreciate. What other predator on earth, except the tiger, views and treats a full-grown adult brown bear as food?  What other predator strikes fear into the brown bear?  What other predator habitually hunts and eats brown bears like some tigers do?  What other predator reduces the number of brown bears?  What other predator can cause a huge male brown bear to flee just from its tracks? What other predator displaces the brown bear from the top position in the food-chain and makes them prey? .....There's none. 

This speaks volumes of the Amur tigers sheer dominance over other large carnivores and shows why this fearsome apex predator has ruled the forests of the Far East Russian taiga since the Pleistocene.


*This image is copyright of its original author


https://archive.org/details/naturesdeadl...b?q=tigers


Summary / Overview based on reliable information & evidence:

1) Tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality. ( Pikunov, Seryodkin )

2) Reliable information and testimonies from those who know, strongly suggests that tigers reduce the population of brown bears in Primorye.

3) When tigers hunt brown bears, male tigers more often hunt and kill adult, larger brown bears. Tigresses more often prey on smaller bears. ( Tkachenko )

4) Brown bear numbers have only increased in the Amur region where tigers have become very rare. One of the reasons for this is the absence of natural enemies like tigers, which are the main natural enemy and predator of brown bears and black bears.

5) Modern scientific research confirms that tigers successfully prey on the largest and healthiest adult female brown bears and young adult male brown bears.

6) Recent scientific studies show that tigers often hunt and kill adult bears, primarily during the summer months. In some regions and seasons like summer, bears are more important in the diet of tigers than wild boars and red deer. In the snow-free period ( summer ) bears make up a large significant portion of tiger diet. ( Miquelle, Kerley, Matiukhina, Mukhacheva )

7) Himalayan black bears are heavily predated upon by tigers and individuals of all ages, sizes and genders (including large male bears) are hunted and eaten by tigers. And according to documented cases, there's more accounts of tigers killing and eating adult male black bears than female bears.

8) Siberian Tiger Project biologists ( Seryodkin, Miquelle, Kerley, Goodrich, Petrunenko ) found mostly adult bears, both brown & black bears, killed and eaten by tigers during their research.

9) Russian biologist & researcher, Tkachenko, repeatedly found the claws of adult bears in the feces of bear-hunting tigers.

10) Himalayan black bears flee up tree's when they encounter a tiger or sense a tigers presence. The presence of tigers is also the reason why black bears spend so much time in the tree's.

11) The tiger is the main natural predator and enemy of bears in the Far East of Russia. - Amur-Ussuri region.

My next post ( PART 2 ) will feature authentic information and evidence on the size of bears hunted by tigers, and evidence of young tigers ( sub-adults/juveniles ) and tigresses hunting bears too. And provide information from Russian authorities and specialists on how often bears are hunted by tigers, in what seasons and info on habitual bear-hunting tigers.
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