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N'waswitshaka males

Gijima Offline
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(11-18-2021, 03:23 AM)BA0701 Wrote:
(06-25-2021, 04:59 PM)lionuk Wrote:
(06-20-2021, 04:01 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(06-20-2021, 12:22 AM)lionuk Wrote: Do you know when those three old N'was males died?

Last one was seen in 2018. They where born around 2006/7. They sired 2 generations of cubs in Nwaswitshaka pride, in 2012 and 2015/16.

Speaking of the first generation of cubs that were born in 2012, do you have any information on them?

(11-18-2021, 01:03 AM)Gijima Wrote: @Timbavati are any reports or sources nescessary to post on this fourm? Or can people say whatever they want? Because we have actual reports of where all the lions were and I think we should delete posts that cause unnecessary confusion when sources directly contradict what people are saying.

Speculation and opinion is an unfortunate necessity, when discussing a subject as dynamic and fluid as wildlife. Especially when you consider that the active information we receive from those on the ground can often times be sparse, or even contradicting. I have not seen anyone declaring anything as fact, simply expressing their opinions, or speculating on possibilities. I believe we all wish things were better, that the information we receive could come a little faster, and be less contradicting with others, so in an imperfect system, we do the best we can with the information we have. I truly see no way, under the current system of how we receive our information, to avoid opinion and speculation in these types of discussions.

However, we have had a recent rash of discussions that have started derailing threads, in the form of lengthy debates over those opinions and speculations, and this needs to stop. We encourage debate, and discussions, and people are free to question others, but moving forward, if those discussions become lengthy and pointed between two individual users, we would ask that folks please carry those continued conversations over to PMs, moving forward. Thank you, to everyone, for your understanding on this matter!

Some people are turning this into a propaganda site for certain coalitions which is making it difficult for the rest of us to find good information. This shouldn't be like Facebook where we carry on with "Mr. T got darted" style speculations. This forum was a great archive for future generations to learn the history of coalitions without all the misinformation that's all over the internet. When I posted something about a fight and later received clarity on the matter, I instantly responded with "ok this was wrong". No one should be here with an agenda to over-glorify some wild animals and to add up their "kill count" or "fight count" so they can win an online contest.

"I truly see no way, under the current system of how we receive our information, to avoid opinion and speculation in these types of discussions." We can simply hold judgement and at the very least not make up stuff that doesn't have ONE supporting fact? 

It's frustrating to come here to look for facts and instead to read that lions, *confirmed and verified* to be something like 20km away from the scene of a fight, is responsible for injuries on males on the other side of the reserve! Let's not forget to further disrespect the N'W males by implying maybe 3 years old beat them up too. But as someone said the other day, no one is forcing me to read this and not to worry I won't be engaging with "discussions" anymore.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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@Gijima why you always get triggered about Avocas?? Wheres the problem if Avocas didn't injured N'ws?? I dont understand.. 

Did i said anything bad about Avocas or idk?? Didn't i literaly said that its "my opinion" and thats based on evidence i seen so far, and what is that "source" that contradicts what i im saying?? "Source" literally said that 2 Avocas where far away and without any injuries/scars next morning, now you explain me, how 2 males (1 limping and not 100%) can injure 2/3 adult males without getting scratched??.. 

And i said that "if they didn't clash with other lions in the area, which i DOUBT", i said DOUBT because Bboys where seen east and who knows where subadults where and they would run away from them anyways.. 

Do you want me to say that Avocas mauled Wide Nose and injured Amahle?? Ok, they 100% injured both N'ws,happy now? 

This is becoming unbearable, and always the same topic (Avocas or/and Bboys) , and same guys involved, who are not objective at all.. 

Theres no difference between Avocas, Bboys, N'ws, Majingilanes, Mapogos, Matimbas or any lion., all of them are the same, so we need to discuss about them objectively from info we got, and not favouring 1 and diminish other.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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( This post was last modified: 11-18-2021, 06:45 AM by Tr1x24 )

(11-18-2021, 06:11 AM)Gijima Wrote: Some people are turning this into a propaganda site for certain coalitions which is making it difficult for the rest of us to find good information. This shouldn't be like Facebook where we carry on with "Mr. T got darted" style speculations. This forum was a great archive for future generations to learn the history of coalitions without all the misinformation that's all over the internet. When I posted something about a fight and later received clarity on the matter, I instantly responded with "ok this was wrong". No one should be here with an agenda to over-glorify some wild animals and to add up their "kill count" or "fight count" so they can win an online contest.

We are talking the same thing, so wheres the problem? 

You are saying that im propaganding someone because i said that Avocas didn't fight N'ws? 

(11-18-2021, 06:11 AM)Gijima Wrote: It's frustrating to come here to look for facts and instead to read that lions, *confirmed and verified* to be something like 20km away from the scene of a fight, is responsible for injuries on males on the other side of the reserve! Let's not forget to further disrespect the N'W males by implying maybe 3 years old beat them up too. But as someone said the other day, no one is forcing me to read this and not to worry I won't be engaging with "discussions" anymore.

Read what i wrote, 10x if you need:

"To me its clear fight over a female, unless they fight someone else, maybe Kambula subadults, or Bboys, but i doubt that."
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United Kingdom Tonpa Offline
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Whats the latest on their locations? The big one and injured belly are back south, and wide-nose and orange eyes are still up north somewhere?
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WildRev Offline
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Wide nose was seen 2 days ago at Londolozi, OE was seen for the last time mating with the infertile lioness at Malamala a week ago
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Gijima Offline
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( This post was last modified: 11-18-2021, 07:52 AM by Gijima )

(11-18-2021, 06:17 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Gijima why you always get triggered about Avocas?? Wheres the problem if Avocas didn't injured N'ws?? I dont understand.. 

Did i said anything bad about Avocas or idk?? Didn't i literaly said that its "my opinion" and thats based on evidence i seen so far, and what is that "source" that contradicts what i im saying?? "Source" literally said that 2 Avocas where far away and without any injuries/scars next morning, now you explain me, how 2 males (1 limping and not 100%) can injure 2/3 adult males without getting scratched??.. 

And i said that "if they didn't clash with other lions in the area, which i DOUBT", i said DOUBT because Bboys where seen east and who knows where subadults where and they would run away from them anyways.. 

Do you want me to say that Avocas mauled Wide Nose and injured Amahle?? Ok, they 100% injured both N'ws,happy now? 

This is becoming unbearable, and always the same topic (Avocas or/and Bboys) , and same guys involved, who are not objective at all.. 

Theres no difference between Avocas, Bboys, N'ws, Majingilanes, Mapogos, Matimbas or any lion., all of them are the same, so we need to discuss about them objectively from info we got, and not favouring 1 and diminish other.
The is the last response I'm going to make here:

No one here is saying the Avocas did anything, including fight. Personal attacks on me are immature and you should really try to understand constructive feedback instead of going full attack mode. I don't have a "kill list" or "chase list" , unlike your many lists you posted here, so which lion fights with who means nothing to me.

You are constantly mis-stating facts in one direction that leads people to have to correct you dragging us all into talking about the same lions over and over again when we would rather move on. 

Attacking lodges when they aren't favorable to your preferred coalition, bullying people off this forum because they didn't agree with the SIZE of Nhena, and butting into multiple conversations just because someone doesn't think your preferred coalition is the best at everything (like a past conversation with Timbavati which was a friendly convo about the Mjingis before you are two other triggered fans jumped in to drag it down).... yeah please tell me how this is objective. Actually don't tell me because my notifications are now off so I'm not returning here to start more debates. Let's put this to rest as the moderators have asked us to do....
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Duco Ndona Offline
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Honestly. Studying animal behavoir is far from an exact science. Especially if these animals are observed only 2% of their time and we have to rely on blogs that are more for tourists than zoologists. Sometimes things are just so dynamic we dont know whats going on and rare scenarios do happen. 

Just throw the big debates in a new thread and move on here.
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Thierry Offline
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I am sorry, but I believe that I am at the origin of this disagreement, when I thought I had to point out the particular nature of the wounds of this lion.

I thought it was interesting to confront the points of view on this subject, but it is clear, afterwards, that this could only result in the exposure of personal opinions, according to personal reasoning and logic, that we can share, but which present
 the danger of the emergence of new dissent. All without any certainty that can be absolutely established.

I wouldn't want two savvy contributors, whose presence here is precious and appreciated, to suffer adversity, in part due to my awkwardness.
Let us resume, please, exchanges with serenity and without taking them for personal attacks. The characteristic of a discussion is also the confrontation of divergent opinions, it is much easier when it can end with a good beer in a pub. Imagine our virtual pub and salute our common interest in a beautiful animal.
@Gijima, @Tr1x24 this is my tour of good alsatian beer. Prost!






.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(11-18-2021, 07:51 AM)Gijima Wrote: The is the last response I'm going to make here:

No one here is saying the Avocas did anything, including fight. Personal attacks on me are immature and you should really try to understand constructive feedback instead of going full attack mode. I don't have a "kill list" or "chase list" , unlike your many lists you posted here, so which lion fights with who means nothing to me.

You are constantly mis-stating facts in one direction that leads people to have to correct you dragging us all into talking about the same lions over and over again when we would rather move on. 

Attacking lodges when they aren't favorable to your preferred coalition, bullying people off this forum because they didn't agree with the SIZE of Nhena, and butting into multiple conversations just because someone doesn't think your preferred coalition is the best at everything (like a past conversation with Timbavati which was a friendly convo about the Mjingis before you are two other triggered fans jumped in to drag it down).... yeah please tell me how this is objective. Actually don't tell me because my notifications are now off so I'm not returning here to start more debates. Let's put this to rest as the moderators have asked us to do....

What are you even saying? Personal attack on you? Where? Me always returning to the same topics? You always get triggered and respond to me, because i didn't wrote somethink you like.. Bullying someone over Nhenha size? Attacking lodges?.. 

This is gone too far, sad to announce, but i im taking a break from posting on this forum, its was good 2+ yrs, but i dont need to put up with these false acussations, ty for all.
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WildRev Offline
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WildRev Offline
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You know, there is an 'ignore user' feature on this forum, just use it, the both of you.
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lionuk Offline
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Gore 
November 2021.
Photo credit: kayls_captures


*This image is copyright of its original author
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lionuk Offline
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Amahle at Sabi Sabi Game Reserve
17/11/2021
Photo credit: Matt Yardley Africa


*This image is copyright of its original author
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lionuk Offline
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Ubuso
Notten's Bush Camp, November 2021.
Photo credit: Karen Birkenbach


*This image is copyright of its original author
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Hairy tummy Offline
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(11-18-2021, 02:01 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(11-18-2021, 07:51 AM)Gijima Wrote: The is the last response I'm going to make here:

No one here is saying the Avocas did anything, including fight. Personal attacks on me are immature and you should really try to understand constructive feedback instead of going full attack mode. I don't have a "kill list" or "chase list" , unlike your many lists you posted here, so which lion fights with who means nothing to me.

You are constantly mis-stating facts in one direction that leads people to have to correct you dragging us all into talking about the same lions over and over again when we would rather move on. 

Attacking lodges when they aren't favorable to your preferred coalition, bullying people off this forum because they didn't agree with the SIZE of Nhena, and butting into multiple conversations just because someone doesn't think your preferred coalition is the best at everything (like a past conversation with Timbavati which was a friendly convo about the Mjingis before you are two other triggered fans jumped in to drag it down).... yeah please tell me how this is objective. Actually don't tell me because my notifications are now off so I'm not returning here to start more debates. Let's put this to rest as the moderators have asked us to do....

What are you even saying? Personal attack on you? Where? Me always returning to the same topics? You always get triggered and respond to me, because i didn't wrote somethink you like.. Bullying someone over Nhenha size? Attacking lodges?.. 

This is gone too far, sad to announce, but i im taking a break from posting on this forum, its was good 2+ yrs, but i dont need to put up with these false acussations, ty for all.
Nooooooo... Dont go! who's going to teach me. On a serious note, just ignore posts you dont agree with friend. You are a brilliant member of this forum
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