There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(11-16-2021, 08:54 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: So word from Gerry Van Der Walt that 1 had bite marks in the back was true afterall, it doesnt look too serious tho.
These injuries, on the back of his legs, can suggest a fight, anyway. This is not a place where lions habitually bite each other, when they fight for the right to mate, or when they do so for food.
We found one of the four N’waswishaka male lions lying in a small open area. He was calling, seemingly trying to find the rest of his pride, and after a few attempts his ears pricked up and so did ours as we could hear another lion calling far off into the distance, and it was not long after that he stood up and began making his way in that direction.
Photo credits: Eric Herbst
(11-17-2021, 04:19 AM)Thierry Wrote: These injuries, on the back of his legs, can suggest a fight, anyway. This is not a place where lions habitually bite each other, when they fight for the right to mate, or when they do so for food.
What's your opinion ?
As I said before, in my opinion, theres 1% chance that Avocas attacked Wide Nose, as evidence show (Avocas seen next day far away and without fresh injuries/scars, which is impossible if they grabed 1 adult male, but all 3 N'ws with scars, Amahle limping, OE with blood on his face, Wide Nose scars, Kambula female with blood also, which indicates that they where all in fight.. Amahle seen chasing WideNose and female in the night, fight definitely happened between the 2 for a female, also injuries on Wide Nose would be much worse even if Avocas hold him only for 10 sec etc.)
Bites in this areas in between coalitions or prides dont happen often but they happen, in the heat of a moment, and fight between 3 males for a female, its easly that 1 male bites Wide Nose from behind, just as someone bited Amahle, who looks to be worse then Wide Nosed injuries.
To me its clear fight over a female, unless they fight someone else, maybe Kambula subadults, or Bboys, but i doubt that.
(11-17-2021, 04:19 AM)Thierry Wrote: These injuries, on the back of his legs, can suggest a fight, anyway. This is not a place where lions habitually bite each other, when they fight for the right to mate, or when they do so for food.
What's your opinion ?
As I said before, in my opinion, theres 1% chance that Avocas attacked Wide Nose, as evidence show (Avocas seen next day far away and without fresh injuries/scars, which is impossible if they grabed 1 adult male, but all 3 N'ws with scars, Amahle limping, OE with blood on his face, Wide Nose scars, Kambula female with blood also, which indicates that they where all in fight.. Amahle seen chasing WideNose and female in the night, fight definitely happened between the 2 for a female, also injuries on Wide Nose would be much worse even if Avocas hold him only for 10 sec etc.)
Bites in this areas in between coalitions or prides dont happen often but they happen, in the heat of a moment, and fight between 3 males for a female, its easly that 1 male bites Wide Nose from behind, just as someone bited Amahle, who looks to be worse then Wide Nosed injuries.
To me its clear fight over a female, unless they fight someone else, maybe Kambula subadults, or Bboys, but i doubt that.
“maybe Kambula subadults, or Bboys, but i doubt that.”
Come on dude, they didn’t fight the Bboys?? Lol why not throw in DM and Southern Avocas into the mix too if we’re bringing up random lions who were nowhere near the area.
If they fought males it’s the Avocas, but at this point without further evidence we don’t need to speculate.
@"Timbavati" are any reports or sources nescessary to post on this fourm? Or can people say whatever they want? Because we have actual reports of where all the lions were and I think we should delete posts that cause unnecessary confusion when sources directly contradict what people are saying.
(06-20-2021, 12:22 AM)lionuk Wrote: Do you know when those three old N'was males died?
Last one was seen in 2018. They where born around 2006/7. They sired 2 generations of cubs in Nwaswitshaka pride, in 2012 and 2015/16.
Speaking of the first generation of cubs that were born in 2012, do you have any information on them?
(11-18-2021, 01:03 AM)Gijima Wrote: @"Timbavati" are any reports or sources nescessary to post on this fourm? Or can people say whatever they want? Because we have actual reports of where all the lions were and I think we should delete posts that cause unnecessary confusion when sources directly contradict what people are saying.
Speculation and opinion is an unfortunate necessity, when discussing a subject as dynamic and fluid as wildlife. Especially when you consider that the active information we receive from those on the ground can often times be sparse, or even contradicting. I have not seen anyone declaring anything as fact, simply expressing their opinions, or speculating on possibilities. I believe we all wish things were better, that the information we receive could come a little faster, and be less contradicting with others, so in an imperfect system, we do the best we can with the information we have. I truly see no way, under the current system of how we receive our information, to avoid opinion and speculation in these types of discussions.
However, we have had a recent rash of discussions that have started derailing threads, in the form of lengthy debates over those opinions and speculations, and this needs to stop. We encourage debate, and discussions, and people are free to question others, but moving forward, if those discussions become lengthy and pointed between two individual users, we would ask that folks please carry those continued conversations over to PMs, moving forward. Thank you, to everyone, for your understanding on this matter!
(06-20-2021, 12:22 AM)lionuk Wrote: Do you know when those three old N'was males died?
Last one was seen in 2018. They where born around 2006/7. They sired 2 generations of cubs in Nwaswitshaka pride, in 2012 and 2015/16.
Speaking of the first generation of cubs that were born in 2012, do you have any information on them?
(11-18-2021, 01:03 AM)Gijima Wrote: @"Timbavati" are any reports or sources nescessary to post on this fourm? Or can people say whatever they want? Because we have actual reports of where all the lions were and I think we should delete posts that cause unnecessary confusion when sources directly contradict what people are saying.
Speculation and opinion is an unfortunate necessity, when discussing a subject as dynamic and fluid as wildlife. Especially when you consider that the active information we receive from those on the ground can often times be sparse, or even contradicting. I have not seen anyone declaring anything as fact, simply expressing their opinions, or speculating on possibilities. I believe we all wish things were better, that the information we receive could come a little faster, and be less contradicting with others, so in an imperfect system, we do the best we can with the information we have. I truly see no way, under the current system of how we receive our information, to avoid opinion and speculation in these types of discussions.
However, we have had a recent rash of discussions that have started derailing threads, in the form of lengthy debates over those opinions and speculations, and this needs to stop. We encourage debate, and discussions, and people are free to question others, but moving forward, if those discussions become lengthy and pointed between two individual users, we would ask that folks please carry those continued conversations over to PMs, moving forward. Thank you, to everyone, for your understanding on this matter!
Some people are turning this into a propaganda site for certain coalitions which is making it difficult for the rest of us to find good information. This shouldn't be like Facebook where we carry on with "Mr. T got darted" style speculations. This forum was a great archive for future generations to learn the history of coalitions without all the misinformation that's all over the internet. When I posted something about a fight and later received clarity on the matter, I instantly responded with "ok this was wrong". No one should be here with an agenda to over-glorify some wild animals and to add up their "kill count" or "fight count" so they can win an online contest.
"I truly see no way, under the current system of how we receive our information, to avoid opinion and speculation in these types of discussions." We can simply hold judgement and at the very least not make up stuff that doesn't have ONE supporting fact?
It's frustrating to come here to look for facts and instead to read that lions, *confirmed and verified* to be something like 20km away from the scene of a fight, is responsible for injuries on males on the other side of the reserve! Let's not forget to further disrespect the N'W males by implying maybe 3 years old beat them up too. But as someone said the other day, no one is forcing me to read this and not to worry I won't be engaging with "discussions" anymore.
