There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(02-21-2020, 11:24 PM)Potato Wrote: I was saying from quite some time already that those boys are just about to settle in some arena and push out some dominant males. With their numbers they have a lot of potential althrough scent marking territory is not deciding statement. They still can move out and target some other coalition. Just think about northen Avocas which made quite a mess in central Manyeteli and ealier in Imbali and they decided to not settle in neither of this arenas and instead they moved further south.
Thats true, but they might target S. Avocas who currently hold 3 prides ( sand river, plains camp and sparta), thats a nice territory.
(02-21-2020, 11:24 PM)Potato Wrote: "Interesting things, 4 N'ws are investigating new territories it seems, as they where scent marking in enemies territory, they prob still dont know how many males are on this territory, but if those are 2 S. Avocas, they will know soon that they are only 2,will they challenge them??"
I was saying from quite some time already that those boys are just about to settle in some arena and push out some dominant males. With their numbers they have a lot of potential althrough scent marking territory is not deciding statement. They still can move out and target some other coalition. Just think about northen Avocas which made quite a mess in central Manyeteli and ealier in Imbali and they decided to not settle in neither of this arenas and instead they moved further south.
The Northern Avocas did have some run-ins with the Orpen males and didn't quite settle the matter with Skoro or the Matimbas. Moving south they found a vacuum and BBoys really didn't press the issue after the initial fight. The N'ws probably lack confidence right now, but in a few months may make a move in any direction.
Dont underestimate the 2 Avocas, this young lions have no chance with them, it will be 2 vs 3 (i dont count the lion with his stomach or colon out and skinny as hell) and Avocas have faced 3 male lions in the past, this report just show me that Avocas are fearless (as i always thought) and in prime they can face and beat this 3 lions easily.
(02-21-2020, 11:24 PM)Potato Wrote: "Interesting things, 4 N'ws are investigating new territories it seems, as they where scent marking in enemies territory, they prob still dont know how many males are on this territory, but if those are 2 S. Avocas, they will know soon that they are only 2,will they challenge them??"
I was saying from quite some time already that those boys are just about to settle in some arena and push out some dominant males. With their numbers they have a lot of potential althrough scent marking territory is not deciding statement. They still can move out and target some other coalition. Just think about northen Avocas which made quite a mess in central Manyeteli and ealier in Imbali and they decided to not settle in neither of this arenas and instead they moved further south.
The Northern Avocas did have some run-ins with the Orpen males and didn't quite settle the matter with Skoro or the Matimbas. Moving south they found a vacuum and BBoys really didn't press the issue after the initial fight. The N'ws probably lack confidence right now, but in a few months may make a move in any direction.
They beat up Matimbas and had open way to take territory in Imbali and later mauled Scorro and could take over central Manyeleti, but again they resigned and moved further.
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(02-22-2020, 01:05 AM)Blondemane Wrote: Dont underestimate the 2 Avocas, this young lions have no chance with them, it will be 2 vs 3 (i dont count the lion with his stomach or colon out and skinny as hell) and Avocas have faced 3 male lions in the past, this report just show me that Avocas are fearless (as i always thought) and in prime they can face and beat this 3 lions easily.
Perhaps they can came on top from this confrontation, but being in situation 2 vs 4 the odds surely will not be on their side. I wouldn't count out injured male. He looks in fine condition beside injury. I guess he learned to live with this handicap. He should be able fight.
The 4 one is skinny, have his stomach on outside and from the video he walks in a weird way from is back legs, i hope he survive and live a long life and yes sure he can fight, but can he survive a fight with a prime males? maybe not.
S.Avocas will defend and keep their lioness and cubs safe, just my opinion.
(02-22-2020, 01:29 AM)Blondemane Wrote: The 4 one is skinny, have his stomach on outside and from the video he walks in a weird way from is back legs, i hope he survive and live a long life and yes sure he can fight, but can he survive a fight with a prime males? maybe not.
S.Avocas will defend and keep their lioness and cubs safe.
Injured male has this injury almost half a year, and he is still alive and doing well, so he will prob be fine.
One of the older ones and biggest, called "Wide Nose" was reported limping, and we can see on a videos he is still limping a bit, but not that bad. So they prob not feel confident rn for a fight.
N'ws chased whole Mhangeni pride (5 adults lionesses) and Othawa male from a giraffe kill, so they are not a kittens anymore.
S. Avocas are a beasts i agree, but time doesnt work for them, N'ws will only get bigger, stronger and more confident as time pass.
N.Avocas at that time were only 4 years old, young boys trying to find a territory, they were inexperienced and i believe that they were not looking for a fight but they must have noticed some weakness on Matimbas and instead of running away they stayed together and must have found HB alone.
(02-21-2020, 11:24 PM)Potato Wrote: "Interesting things, 4 N'ws are investigating new territories it seems, as they where scent marking in enemies territory, they prob still dont know how many males are on this territory, but if those are 2 S. Avocas, they will know soon that they are only 2,will they challenge them??"
I was saying from quite some time already that those boys are just about to settle in some arena and push out some dominant males. With their numbers they have a lot of potential althrough scent marking territory is not deciding statement. They still can move out and target some other coalition. Just think about northen Avocas which made quite a mess in central Manyeteli and ealier in Imbali and they decided to not settle in neither of this arenas and instead they moved further south.
The Northern Avocas did have some run-ins with the Orpen males and didn't quite settle the matter with Skoro or the Matimbas. Moving south they found a vacuum and BBoys really didn't press the issue after the initial fight. The N'ws probably lack confidence right now, but in a few months may make a move in any direction.
They beat up Matimbas and had open way to take territory in Imbali and later mauled Scorro and could take over central Manyeleti, but again they resigned and moved further.
My point being that whenever they ran into an established coalition they didn't fare very well. I think they mauled a lone Scorro before they fought HB (Ginger was injured at that time and from the reports could barely walk). A few days later they were chased around by the Orpen males and following that they popped up in the south where they encountered BBoys and got beaten up and separated. The BBoys then moved south and abandoned the north. The Avocas settled into that vacuum with no challengers and it took them a good few months before they even managed to evict the sub-adults with the Nkhuma's. I just don't think they were confident enough at that time to settle in if there was a hint of a challenge.
(02-22-2020, 01:29 AM)Blondemane Wrote: The 4 one is skinny, have his stomach on outside and from the video he walks in a weird way from is back legs, i hope he survive and live a long life and yes sure he can fight, but can he survive a fight with a prime males? maybe not.
S.Avocas will defend and keep their lioness and cubs safe.
Injured male has this injury almost half a year, and he is still alive and doing well, so he will prob be fine.
One of the older ones and biggest, called "Wide Nose" was reported limping, and we can see on a videos he is still limping a bit, but not that bad. So they prob not feel confident rn for a fight.
N'ws chased whole Mhangeni pride (5 adults lionesses) and Othawa male from a giraffe kill, so they are not a kittens anymore.
S. Avocas are a beasts i agree, but time doesnt work for them, N'ws will only get bigger, stronger and more confident as time pass.
I think you dont get my point about that injury, yes the injury prob healed and he somehow adapted to the injury but but he has that on the outside of his body when he should have been inside, one clawn and that thing could be opened and he will be in trouble...
Yes, the chase off lioness and Othawa boy, not surprised with that since the Othawa male never fought with anyone, he could be a beast but he is pretty young and he is all alone, like i said, the south avocas already been in a disadvantage situation before.
There is a lot of examples of time dont worked well for young guns as they got beaten one-by-one by older males. In relation to the 2 avocas, i can guess they will not back off from this young lions.
(02-22-2020, 02:14 AM)Blondemane Wrote: I think you dont get my point about that injury, yes the injury prob healed and he somehow adapted to the injury but but he has that on the outside of his body when he should have been inside, one clawn and that thing could be opened and he will be in trouble...
Yes, the chase off lioness and Othawa boy, not surprised with that since the Othawa male never fought with anyone, he could be a beast but he is pretty young and he is all alone, like i said, the south avocas already been in a disadvantage situation before.
There is a lot of examples of time dont worked well for young guns as they got beaten one-by-one by older males. In relation to the 2 avocas, i can guess they will not back off from this young lions.
I get your point that he is very exposed in a fight, but even without him fighting, they are still 3 vs 2..
By the videos it seems that 4 N'ws are investigating territory (you dont scent mark in enemy territory for no reason), thats a typical move from pot invaders, they first investigate how many dominant males hold that territory.
In almost every territory takeover you see at first dominant males chasing off the intruders, who then come back later when they see that they have greater numbers..
I dont say that this will happen here, but theres a chance, we'll see..
(02-22-2020, 02:14 AM)Blondemane Wrote: I think you dont get my point about that injury, yes the injury prob healed and he somehow adapted to the injury but but he has that on the outside of his body when he should have been inside, one clawn and that thing could be opened and he will be in trouble...
Yes, the chase off lioness and Othawa boy, not surprised with that since the Othawa male never fought with anyone, he could be a beast but he is pretty young and he is all alone, like i said, the south avocas already been in a disadvantage situation before.
There is a lot of examples of time dont worked well for young guns as they got beaten one-by-one by older males. In relation to the 2 avocas, i can guess they will not back off from this young lions.
I get your point that he is very exposed in a fight, but even without him fighting, they are still 3 vs 2..
By the videos it seems that 4 N'ws are investigating territory (you dont scent mark in enemy territory for no reason), thats a typical move from pot invaders, they first investigate how many dominant males hold that territory.
In almost every territory takeover you see at first dominant males chasing off the intruders, who then come back later when they see that they have greater numbers..
I dont say that this will happen here, but theres a chance, we'll see..
The Birmninghams did the same when they first became dominant. There were 5 of them that used to run away from the southern Matimbas, but with time their confidence grew and they began to become more vocal. the Matimbas realizing that there is no way the can fight 5 lions after losing several Styx cubs fled without even fighting. The same can happen here in about 6 months time. I don't see the southern Avocas being able to or wanting to fight 4 full grown males even though one of the four may not be 100%. The Avocas only need to hear 4 male lions roaring to understand that its time for them to move on unless they are extremely aggressive males which I don't think they are. They ran from Charleston in a 2 v 2 situation not too long ago when they are already full grown males.
