Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers

[GuateGojira]

UPDTED IMAGES:

Ok, I manage to update all the tables and images with all the new records that were available here in the last years. These tables are only from the modern records, so no hunting record is included here.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

If new recored are available in the future, I will add them too. Save these ones, I already deleted the old ones from previous posts to avoid errors.

Here is the comparison between the old and new records, we can see that the difference is small now.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Any question, feel free to ask.

Greetings and again, thank you for your patience. Reply

[SpinoRex]

Uptade on Siberian Tiger

Im at the moment connected to one of the scientists in the Tiger Leopard National Park regarding a 270 kg male that was claimed to weighed. I will give new infos until further notice. But the claim seemed to be reliable so it isnt a general nonsense claim you heard/read many times Reply

[AndresVida]

(02-06-2022, 12:57 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: Im at the moment connected to one of the scientists in the Tiger Leopard National Park regarding a 270 kg male that was claimed to weighed.

I assume that's going to be a captive tiger right? Now if that's a healthy tiger with a physical condition similar to the wild counterparts and weights for real about 270 kg it's going to be impressive.
Even if it's not wild this might be very interesting, as we all know there's this mystery whether siberian tigers in the past were or were not about the size of Bengal tigers. Reply

[Charger01]

(02-16-2022, 01:23 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(02-06-2022, 12:57 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: Im at the moment connected to one of the scientists in the Tiger Leopard National Park regarding a 270 kg male that was claimed to weighed.

I assume that's going to be a captive tiger right? Now if that's a healthy tiger with a physical condition similar to the wild counterparts and weights for real about 270 kg it's going to be impressive.
Even if it's not wild this might be very interesting, as we all know there's this mystery whether siberian tigers in the past were or were not about the size of Bengal tigers.

Apparently it's a wild tiger. I did email the director of the park (who is also a researcher on tigers) but unfortunately got no reply Reply

[GuateGojira]

(02-16-2022, 01:23 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: Even if it's not wild this might be very interesting, as we all know there's this mystery whether siberian tigers in the past were or were not about the size of Bengal tigers.

Actually is not a mystery. Historic Amur tigers and Bengal tigers are/were of the same size. From the few reliable records and the sample of skulls we can say that there was not a significant difference between them.

So, you can be sure that Amur tigers were really big, but sadly the exterminion that they suffer at the end of 1940 created a bottleneck that is still in the process of regression. But take in count that in the 2000 it was rare that a male reached the 200 kg, but at 2012 some males weighed more than 210 kg, so I will not be surprised if some males are over 220 kg in these days (females are bigger too), but of course we need evidence first. Reply

[AndresVida]

(02-16-2022, 03:00 AM)Khan85 Wrote: Apparently it's a wild tiger. I did email the director of the park (who is also a researcher on tigers) but unfortunately got no replyReply

A WILD contemporary amur tiger of almost 600 lb? If that's true, that'd be even larger than the largest confirmed historical amur tiger of 254 kg. And, meanwhile we haven't seen any reliable 280-290+ kg male from siberia (which is the case for Bengal tigers regarding reliable hunting records only) finding a 270 kg tiger in these days from a population that had a drastic downsize  because of poaching would be astonishing.

But yea, for confirming such record we need solid evidence, that's so bad that  they didn’t reply to you. Hope it's not just an exagerration or a visual off estimate Reply

[GuateGojira]

(02-17-2022, 04:33 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: A WILD contemporary amur tiger of almost 600 lb? If that's true, that'd be even larger than the largest confirmed historical amur tiger of 254 kg. And, meanwhile we haven't seen any reliable 280-290+ kg male from siberia (which is the case for Bengal tigers regarding reliable hunting records only) finding a 270 kg tiger in these days from a population that had a drastic downsize  because of poaching would be astonishing.

But yea, for confirming such record we need solid evidence, that's so bad that  they didn’t reply to you. Hope it's not just an exagerration or a visual off estimate

We need to be very carefull with these reports. Belive me, it happened to me, twice! The first time was when a scientific magazine (yes, a per review one) mentioned that one Amur tiger weighed 220 kg, but when I contacted Dr Goodrich directly he confirmed that the male was just 200 kg. The second was a male in a veterinary webpage that said that weighed 250 kg (sic!) but when I contacted the main veterinary it resulted than that particular male weighed only 182 kg!!!

So, with this apparent tiger of 270 kg in the Amur-Ussuri region, I will like a hard confirmation before to accept it. However, that doesn't mean that old Amur tigers did not reached those sizes in the past.

Now, there is a point that I wanted to share with all of you, about the heaviest Amur tiger in old records. We know that the heaviest male tiger from the Amur region, accepted by Slagth et al. (2005) was the male of 254 kg. However there was another male that could be heaver and that was discarded for an unfair reason.

I am talking about one male of 250 kg reported by Baikov in 1927. If we check the paper of Slaght and team, they say that the information is accurate as is from a first hand source and based in Heptern & Sludskii (1992) it even had body measurements. So why this particular weight was discarded? Check it:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

So the weight was discarded becasuse it excludes its viceras, it was "clean". The point of Slaght and team is that we can't know the real weight and that is fair, but we still can calculate it. For example, from the two male tigers reported by Goodwin and Morden (different papers) shows the difference between an intact and a "clean" (with no vicera on it) tiger. The first male weighed 249.5 kg intact and 230 kg "clean". The second male weighed 217.7 kg intact and 200 kg "clean". The tigress of 167 kg was just reported by Goodwin, wich published the weights "clean" so Slaght used only the weights intanct reported by Morden and discarded the figures of Goodwin, including that tigress, that based in Mazák, I decided to include.

In this case, we can see that the vicera weighed between 18 - 20 kg. So, the male of 250 kg that was "clean" could had a weight of about 268 - 270 kg. That means that if intact, this male was as big as the biggest Bengal tigers reported by Scientists. In this case, we can see, again, that the largest Amur tigers were as big as the biggest Bengal tigers in the past, something that had its backup in the skulls, wich is about 380 mm in both populations (scientific maximum) and up to 406 mm (hunting maximum).

I decided to include the figure of 250 kg, as represent a reliable figure and from a primary source, and about the vicerae, we can take it like an "empty belly" specimen. This is the same that I done with the tigress of 167 kg, which is from a first hand source and with body measurements.

That is why the average weight of the Amur tigers "weighted" is of 200 kg, including modern and old records. First hand records are priority, even if they are "evicerated". Reply

[GuateGojira]

(01-24-2022, 04:25 PM)GreenForest Wrote: "Yes I am told T3 recently gained a weight around 240Kg. Even Panna 111  also gained the same weight (around).  I dont have the rest of the comparative details." - Personal comm. with Panna field director Sreenivasa Murthy.

Just to make sure, so is confirmed that the T-3 weighed 240 kg? Is just to know before to update the tables. Reply

[SpinoRex]

(02-25-2022, 01:37 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(01-24-2022, 04:25 PM)GreenForest Wrote: "Yes I am told T3 recently gained a weight around 240Kg. Even Panna 111  also gained the same weight (around).  I dont have the rest of the comparative details." - Personal comm. with Panna field director Sreenivasa Murthy.

Just to make sure, so is confirmed that the T-3 weighed 240 kg? Is just to know before to update the tables.

A small investigation in the paper recently shared by Khan85 can show it. He was collared at 10 years old but wasnt weighed and neither his measurements changed noticably. His best measurements came at 18 years (or 15) cant remember. Reply

[GuateGojira]

(02-25-2022, 10:44 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: A small investigation in the paper recently shared by Khan85 can show it. He was collared at 10 years old but wasnt weighed and neither his measurements changed noticably. His best measurements came at 18 years (or 15) cant remember.

I see it and you are right. The biggest weight (202 kg) was when he was 15 years old, and in his last capture at 18 years old it was just slightly longer but it was not weighed, just estimated at 250 kg (12/2020). Reply

[I love cats]

(02-17-2022, 05:49 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(02-17-2022, 04:33 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: A WILD contemporary amur tiger of almost 600 lb? If that's true, that'd be even larger than the largest confirmed historical amur tiger of 254 kg. And, meanwhile we haven't seen any reliable 280-290+ kg male from siberia (which is the case for Bengal tigers regarding reliable hunting records only) finding a 270 kg tiger in these days from a population that had a drastic downsize  because of poaching would be astonishing.

But yea, for confirming such record we need solid evidence, that's so bad that  they didn’t reply to you. Hope it's not just an exagerration or a visual off estimate

We need to be very carefull with these reports. Belive me, it happened to me, twice! The first time was when a scientific magazine (yes, a per review one) mentioned that one Amur tiger weighed 220 kg, but when I contacted Dr Goodrich directly he confirmed that the male was just 200 kg. The second was a male in a veterinary webpage that said that weighed 250 kg (sic!) but when I contacted the main veterinary it resulted than that particular male weighed only 182 kg!!!

So, with this apparent tiger of 270 kg in the Amur-Ussuri region, I will like a hard confirmation before to accept it. However, that doesn't mean that old Amur tigers did not reached those sizes in the past.

Now, there is a point that I wanted to share with all of you, about the heaviest Amur tiger in old records. We know that the heaviest male tiger from the Amur region, accepted by Slagth et al. (2005) was the male of 254 kg. However there was another male that could be heaver and that was discarded for an unfair reason.

I am talking about one male of 250 kg reported by Baikov in 1927. If we check the paper of Slaght and team, they say that the information is accurate as is from a first hand source and based in Heptern & Sludskii (1992) it even had body measurements. So why this particular weight was discarded? Check it:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

So the weight was discarded becasuse it excludes its viceras, it was "clean". The point of Slaght and team is that we can't know the real weight and that is fair, but we still can calculate it. For example, from the two male tigers reported by Goodwin and Morden (different papers) shows the difference between an intact and a "clean" (with no vicera on it) tiger. The first male weighed 249.5 kg intact and 230 kg "clean". The second male weighed 217.7 kg intact and 200 kg "clean". The tigress of 167 kg was just reported by Goodwin, wich published the weights "clean" so Slaght used only the weights intanct reported by Morden and discarded the figures of Goodwin, including that tigress, that based in Mazák, I decided to include.

In this case, we can see that the vicera weighed between 18 - 20 kg. So, the male of 250 kg that was "clean" could had a weight of about 268 - 270 kg. That means that if intact, this male was as big as the biggest Bengal tigers reported by Scientists. In this case, we can see, again, that the largest Amur tigers were as big as the biggest Bengal tigers in the past, something that had its backup in the skulls, wich is about 380 mm in both populations (scientific maximum) and up to 406 mm (hunting maximum).

I decided to include the figure of 250 kg, as represent a reliable figure and from a primary source, and about the vicerae, we can take it like an "empty belly" specimen. This is the same that I done with the tigress of 167 kg, which is from a first hand source and with body measurements.

That is why the average weight of the Amur tigers "weighted" is of 200 kg, including modern and old records. First hand records are priority, even if they are "evicerated".

Hello guate, can you once more send the sources of Siberian tiger average weight, and I think you need to add this also into Siberian Tigers average weight, is it reliable adding this information on Siberian tigers average, then the average weight and samples would be higher 

Reply

Attached Files

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[GuateGojira]

(03-04-2022, 06:28 AM)I love cats Wrote: Attached FilesImage(s)

*This image is copyright of its original author

   

That is beautiful and confimr that my previous calculation of about 368 kg for the Ngandong tiger was too low.

About the Amur tigers, definitelly we will need to wait until Dr Christiansen and his team publish they information. At 2022, we need to update the information of the Amur tiger, the last table that I made was in 2015 and the last male was from 2012. Reply

[I love cats]

Thanks for the reply guate, so you think that this is reliable, the 206 kg average from Christiansen email ? So guate, can you please tell me the average weight of bengal tiger and Siberian tigers from your database ? Reply

[SpinoRex]

In a email he reveals the overall weight of the captive and wild ones as 223 kg which means the captive ones must average 240 kg.

Also beside that i was confirmed about the 170 kg male from Buthan and they shared 3 other males when i asked about other adult males.

*This image is copyright of its original author

They reply very quick.... Reply

[SpinoRex]

Kaziranga Tiger Captured

Age: 12-13 years old

Length: 292.6 cm
Height: 109.7 cm 
(Measurement Method unknown)

Weight: about 180/190 kg (acc to other source 180 kg) , will ask the director for more details. WTI is reliable no doubt but need to ask for the weight Reply