There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(11-29-2022, 05:27 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Potato the person I'm talking to claimed the Matshipiri were big himself, he said:
"I actually saw these two photographed on ig, I thought the male looked massive and it looks like he lives up to the hype. What a bulky boy!"
About other rangers opinion on Mapogos and Majins, true, but:
1. KNP Males' territory wasn't in Londolozi, they have seen Freddy and Limper in occasion only, same for Mapogos and the southern guide. In comparison Rob spent years with both Mapogos and Majins, plus KY's skull was smaller than the 5th Majingilane, so it's fair to say the opinion that Majins were bigger has much more weight to it, though I don't think they were much bigger.
@Pckts Yes the ranger thought a Mara lion he saw was bigger, so what? Apart from this male he thought it was the Matimbas.
The Charleston male was 3yo and the Sand River was a prime male, we have both these facts confirmed. Sand Rivers fought and took over the Southern Pride in 2012, two years before the fight with the Charleston boy who was born 3 years before. Sand Rivers even mated with the Charleston's aunt that was raising them.
Matimbas comparison with Bboys are important because you're claiming all lions within a region are of similar size.
And size is only one decisive factor when lions chase or fight each other so it'a irrelevant if Mapogos and Majingilanes fought Matimbas, you yourself said the difference between Ron and Caesar was huge, difference of 185 male to a 225kg, still they were ib the same coalition fighting for mating rights and Ron was reported to be the most dominant.
Anyway it's clear you won't change your mind about 225kg being the peak weight of a lion, we should just agree to desagree, it was my mistake getting involved in these discussions, tigers fans like yourself are probably debating such things with lion fans for more than a decade now and if both sides have never reached and agreement surely I'll not be the one to change your mind.
Anyway, have a good day, no bad feelings!
Quote: Yes the ranger thought a Mara lion he saw was bigger, so what? Apart from this male he thought it was the Matimbas.
I've seen E. African Lions and have always maintained they'd be larger than S. African free ranging males depending on the location. That being said, the largest male from E. Africa was a 272kg cattle lifter. Although I have little doubt they can reach higher weights.
Quote:The Charleston male was 3yo and the Sand River was a prime male, we have both these facts confirmed. Sand Rivers fought and took over the Southern Pride in 2012, two years before the fight with the Charleston boy who was born 3 years before. Sand Rivers even mated with the Charleston's aunt that was raising them.
Who has these facts confirme
Neither is full adult by the looks of it, both are most likely still coming into the fully mature stage of their lives and neither are in their prime. The SRM is the son of the Skukuza Male who was still alive in 2020 and this video was from 2014 so generally speaking, Wild Lions live to about 12 if lucky and take 3 years to sexually mature and generally longer than that to have cubs. So rough estimates would put him around 4 during this video but that's purely speculation on my part if all information mentioned is correct. Regardless, the size difference is minimal which was your claim.
Quote:Matimbas comparison with Bboys are important because you're claiming all lions within a region are of similar size.
They are, what is mentioned has little to do with that. Lions within a coalition can be small compared to the larger ones, but generally speaking they'll be in the 185kg-225kg range on empty stomachs. Hence *similar size*
Quote:Anyway it's clear you won't change your mind about 225kg being the peak weight of a lion,
I've never said this, but regardless we can move on from here.
As i know there is even a heavier lion in east africa but i forgot the weight. It was close to 290 kg (with minor fill) if i remember correctly. Also i was told the Mnt Kenya lion was not a cattle killer at the time when he was killed.. according to this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4RDC-AlnUY
No confirmation on the other one and the Mt Kenyan Lion was a cattle killer. Noted on his skull.
"euthanized for stock raiding"
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Why do they say that kock dissected the lion? I have an email from kock saying that 272 has not been dissected, it has not eaten for 24 hours, the weight of 272 measured by the scale of the slaughterhouse, and the approximate measurement
Not from me but from an old poster who would contribute here named Waveriders. He was the one who's credited for the images.
Do we have any more data about richard kock lion (photo , length , skull length or paw length ) , any one of these ?
(03-13-2023, 01:46 PM)Bruceenzo Wrote: Om-7935 Body data of 272kg lion.
72 inch means 183 cm hbl , a 272kg lion must be atleast 195-196cm long in straight line .more likely it should be like 200-205cm with 140-142 cm girth and more than 1m height .
03-14-2023, 04:03 AM( This post was last modified: 03-14-2023, 07:21 AM by Bruceenzo )
(03-13-2023, 09:20 PM)abhisingh7 Wrote:
(03-13-2023, 01:46 PM)Bruceenzo Wrote: Om-7935 Body data of 272kg lion.
72 inch means 183 cm hbl , a 272kg lion must be atleast 195-196cm long in straight line .more likely it should be like 200-205cm with 140-142 cm girth and more than 1m height .
Its height is 40 inches about 101 cm. You can also guess its height according to its tibia and skull. Waveriders measured it, but she blocked the scale of the ruler(This little girl wrote the rumor of smearing the tiger into her thesis. She is a tiger hater. )Then, I guess this lion robbed many livestock.
(03-13-2023, 01:46 PM)Bruceenzo Wrote: Om-7935 Body data of 272kg lion.
72 inch means 183 cm hbl , a 272kg lion must be atleast 195-196cm long in straight line .more likely it should be like 200-205cm with 140-142 cm girth and more than 1m height .
Its height is 40 inches about 101 cm. You can also guess its height according to its tibia and skull. Waveriders measured it, but she blocked the scale of the ruler(This little girl wrote the rumor of smearing the tiger into her thesis. She is a tiger hater. )Then, I guess this lion robbed many livestock.
1. Please read the e-mail carefully to ensure drawing the right conclusion. And some informations are "messed" up, the lion was transferred from Aberdare to Kenya not vice versa (might have been a small error). The lion was causing problems in the former national park according to Tom (he most likely said it had to do with cattles). He was living in Aberdare and was then transferred to Mount Kenya and after he lived there and left it he was eventually starving for a amount of time. This also explains why the officials and head chief vet had no data on him killing cattles but it is also most likely the case that the lion was never really caught killing cattles as these people were workers in KWS and had acess to the file data of the lion. So the conclusion remains:
- He was shot for attack tourists or leaving MOUNT KENYA
- He was/may have been a cattle killer or problem animal in Aberdare
It means at the time when he was weighed, he was not a cattle killer really.
Also i would take those measurements regarding length and height because these arent reliable judgements and based off the skull, the body length of this lion might be longer than average. However the data ragrding his limbs were published already in various places indicating that he was one of the most robust felids in the "Strength Index Score" Sheet so far excluding jaguars of course.
"(This little girl wrote the rumor of smearing the tiger into her thesis. She is a tiger hater.)"
Suggest you to read his old posts to figure out why he didnt publish it.
I was hoping more of this page compared to the tiger thread. Here there are only (assuming) tigerfanatics posting data of lions.
03-15-2023, 12:51 PM( This post was last modified: 03-15-2023, 04:57 PM by Bruceenzo )
Dude, you should show the evidence that it was transferred from Aberdare to Kenya.
In addition, a rational lion fan shared the reply letter from kock. kock did not deny the 72-inch measurements.
Yes, it may not have robbed livestock when he get measured, but I suspect it has no viability, so it can only attack humans (kock said he attacked humans), which is also the reason why kock thought he was empty stomach (in the email I sent above, kock said he did not have dissected lion).
In fact, according to the comparison between the skull and the tibia, it is about 1m high, which is accurate. Dr. Thomas Gnoske also collected the skeleton of om7935, and his words are also authoritative.
As long as the information is correct, I think zombies can also upload lion data.
You joined wf only yesterday. I guess you are angry waveriders?
(03-13-2023, 01:46 PM)Bruceenzo Wrote: Om-7935 Body data of 272kg lion.
72 inch means 183 cm hbl , a 272kg lion must be atleast 195-196cm long in straight line .more likely it should be like 200-205cm with 140-142 cm girth and more than 1m height .
Its height is 40 inches about 101 cm. You can also guess its height according to its tibia and skull. Waveriders measured it, but she blocked the scale of the ruler(This little girl wrote the rumor of smearing the tiger into her thesis. She is a tiger hater. )Then, I guess this lion robbed many livestock.
1. Please read the e-mail carefully to ensure drawing the right conclusion. And some informations are "messed" up, the lion was transferred from Aberdare to Kenya not vice versa (might have been a small error). The lion was causing problems in the former national park according to Tom (he most likely said it had to do with cattles). He was living in Aberdare and was then transferred to Mount Kenya and after he lived there and left it he was eventually starving for a amount of time. This also explains why the officials and head chief vet had no data on him killing cattles but it is also most likely the case that the lion was never really caught killing cattles as these people were workers in KWS and had acess to the file data of the lion. So the conclusion remains:
- He was shot for attack tourists or leaving MOUNT KENYA
- He was/may have been a cattle killer or problem animal in Aberdare
It means at the time when he was weighed, he was not a cattle killer really.
Also i would take those measurements regarding length and height because these arent reliable judgements and based off the skull, the body length of this lion might be longer than average. However the data ragrding his limbs were published already in various places indicating that he was one of the most robust felids in the "Strength Index Score" Sheet so far excluding jaguars of course.
"(This little girl wrote the rumor of smearing the tiger into her thesis. She is a tiger hater.)"
Suggest you to read his old posts to figure out why he didnt publish it.
I was hoping more of this page compared to the tiger thread. Here there are only (assuming) tigerfanatics posting data of lions.
relax,take it easy.
Is there a reason you chose to reply to the same post with two consecutive posts of your own?
03-15-2023, 10:04 PM( This post was last modified: 03-15-2023, 10:08 PM by BA0701 )
All, before things escalate, everyone on WildFact needs to speak to one another with respect, if you have specific knowledge that contradicts another's post then you are invited to share your information, along with whatever evidence you possess with everyone, or feel free to use our PM system to do so.
If you are unaware of the rules on WildFact, the Mod Team will not tolerate carrying disagreements from outside of WildFact onto our pages. I suggest everyone familiarize yourself with our rules, as being disrespectful, or condescending to others will draw negative attention to yourself by our team, and result in a permanent ban. If you are unable to conduct yourself in a respectful manner, then you may wish to consider the negative repercussions your behavior will have on your WildFact account.
As for a user having more than one account on this site, I invite anyone with knowledge of such an occurrence to PM a member of the WildFact Team with this information.
In case anyone is unfamiliar with our rules, here is the link:
OK.
Everyone is free to post and give his point of view, always as the information is truthful and first hand and respectful way. By the other hand, if anybody isn't right, then, should accept it and stop the debate on a good and respectful way. Since often, the debates are non-stop and end with loads of pages discussing about the same thing. Which means could frustrate to other forum users who are interested in read the thread and get knowledge about the "theme"
(03-16-2023, 06:33 PM)Bruceenzo Wrote: And Tom (Thomas Gnoske)is about right from my recollection! R
I must express my concern that your actions may result in negative consequences for you and other people -> You are IMO one of these spammers, even though I do not intend to cause any harm or aggression towards you. Your behavior of spamming or even the approach of writing to an scientists contradicts the scientific approach and demolishes the credibility of you an. This has serious implications for individuals who engage in meaningful discussions with them. (For clarification, I know of two people who have had lengthy discussions with Tom for about a year. These people have had to repeatedly explain certain issues to Tom as he has received emails from other people on the same topics.)
I am aware of two individuals who had to repeatedly explain certain topics to Tom over the course of a year due to his incessant emails. In regards to the matter at hand, I have obtained the emails from the other parties by forwarding the emails to me. The emails clearly state that the lion in question was a problematic animal in Aberdare, was relocated to Mount Kenya, and was subsequently killed after leaving the National Park and attacking humans.
Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions
