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09-29-2020, 01:27 AM( This post was last modified: 09-29-2020, 01:28 AM by Pckts )
(09-29-2020, 01:09 AM)Styx38 Wrote: @Pckts I though the biggest Persian Leopard was either 95 kg or 115 kg?
I personally don't believe that one is legitimate, especially after the reduction of 115kg to 95kg.
I'd like to know more about the 91kg one and get some specifics on any 80-90kg Leopard to be honest.
It'd help a lot when comparing cats and knowing which seem reasonable or not but for whatever reason, we can't find very many.
(09-29-2020, 01:09 AM)Styx38 Wrote: @Pckts I though the biggest Persian Leopard was either 95 kg or 115 kg?
I personally don't believe that one is legitimate, especially after the reduction of 115kg to 95kg.
I'd like to know more about the 91kg one and get some specifics on any 80-90kg Leopard to be honest.
It'd help a lot when comparing cats and knowing which seem reasonable or not but for whatever reason, we can't find very many.
Though the 115 kg was mentioned in a peer reviewed paper.
Maybe there was a mistaken identity between the 95 kg one and the 115 kg one?
After all, there are a ton of mistakes in areas with English as a second language.
For example, here was a misprint of a 125 kg Leopard from India.
09-29-2020, 03:00 AM( This post was last modified: 09-29-2020, 03:08 AM by Pckts )
(09-29-2020, 02:49 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(09-29-2020, 01:27 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2020, 01:09 AM)Styx38 Wrote: @Pckts I though the biggest Persian Leopard was either 95 kg or 115 kg?
I personally don't believe that one is legitimate, especially after the reduction of 115kg to 95kg.
I'd like to know more about the 91kg one and get some specifics on any 80-90kg Leopard to be honest.
It'd help a lot when comparing cats and knowing which seem reasonable or not but for whatever reason, we can't find very many.
Though the 115 kg was mentioned in a peer reviewed paper.
Maybe there was a mistaken identity between the 95 kg one and the 115 kg one?
After all, there are a ton of mistakes in areas with English as a second language.
For example, here was a misprint of a 125 kg Leopard from India.
Quote:The killed male leopard weighed 125kg and was 8.7 feet tall
Either or given weight for the Persian Leopard could be a misprint, but the 115 kg Leopard came from a from a more credible source.
The 115kg cat was revised to be 95kg and was indeed the same cat, allegedly.
And which peer reviewed paper was it claimed in?
I know it was claimed but dismissed in the Persian Study.
There was a vet who commented on the change from 115kg to 95kg but I don't know where it is now but I'm sure @Luipaard has it.
Quote: A Kenyan leopard shot with a 260 mm long skull, and weighed 78 kg:
I made a list of all the skulls that originated from Kenya. They are from the 16th Edition Rowland Wards, 1976. Full list can be seen here: https://imgur.com/a/qgk9fsh
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
The leopard's skull you posted, would be ranked lowest overall (15.75"). They're too from hunting records so choose for yourself if you find them plausible.
If its weight of 78kg is reliable, this should mean that the leopards listed above should be in the 75kg-95kg weight range. PH Hamilton gave a weight range of 60kg-95kg for leopards in the mountainous regions of Kenya. From his paper, 'The Leopard and Cheetah in Kenya':
*This image is copyright of its original author
The largest on that list with a score of 18.75'' would rank #10 on the SCI list.
There are higher ones in the list though. I just included Kenyan skulls only for comparison.
By the way, I think the 18.38" (276,23 mm x 190,50 mm) skull belongs to this 204lbs Kenyan leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
None higher than the 18.75 score on the list posted outside of the Persian/Congo Basin Skulls.
Which also wouldn't crack the top 10.
In regards to weights correlated with skulls...
The Kenyan Leopard is very large, I'd like to see more on the reliability of the weight claimed though but I doubt it exists.
We do have weights associated with Persian Skulls, with 91kg being the largest but again we don't know which skull contributed to which weight. Their average is the 70kg range.
We do have a weight for this guy
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
"The score ended up to be 18 4/16(dry), the body was not that long(7.2 feet), he weighed 185 pounds. Length and weight are irrelevant, because if he had a full stomach, he would have weighed over 200 pounds. Something very interesting I thought, was that his tail had a circumference at the base of 10 inches."
(09-29-2020, 01:09 AM)Styx38 Wrote: @Pckts I though the biggest Persian Leopard was either 95 kg or 115 kg?
I personally don't believe that one is legitimate, especially after the reduction of 115kg to 95kg.
I'd like to know more about the 91kg one and get some specifics on any 80-90kg Leopard to be honest.
It'd help a lot when comparing cats and knowing which seem reasonable or not but for whatever reason, we can't find very many.
Though the 115 kg was mentioned in a peer reviewed paper.
Maybe there was a mistaken identity between the 95 kg one and the 115 kg one?
After all, there are a ton of mistakes in areas with English as a second language.
For example, here was a misprint of a 125 kg Leopard from India.
Quote:The killed male leopard weighed 125kg and was 8.7 feet tall
Either or given weight for the Persian Leopard could be a misprint, but the 115 kg Leopard came from a from a more credible source.
The 115kg cat was revised to be 95kg and was indeed the same cat, allegedly.
And which peer reviewed paper was it claimed in?
I know it was claimed but dismissed in the Persian Study.
There was a vet who commented on the change from 115kg to 95kg but I don't know where it is now but I'm sure @Luipaard has it.
I actually agree that the Leopard was 95 kg.
It is just that the 115 kg Leopard was used in the source.
*This image is copyright of its original author
While the 95 kg came from a translated newspaper.
The 125 kg obviously came from a translation error.
Point is that newspaper errors can happen in areas where English is not spoken much or a second language.
I don't think the Leopard is 115 kg, but I definitely think that it may have been rivaling 95 kg.
09-29-2020, 04:11 AM( This post was last modified: 09-29-2020, 04:12 AM by Pckts )
(09-29-2020, 03:21 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(09-29-2020, 03:00 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2020, 02:49 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(09-29-2020, 01:27 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2020, 01:09 AM)Styx38 Wrote: @Pckts I though the biggest Persian Leopard was either 95 kg or 115 kg?
I personally don't believe that one is legitimate, especially after the reduction of 115kg to 95kg.
I'd like to know more about the 91kg one and get some specifics on any 80-90kg Leopard to be honest.
It'd help a lot when comparing cats and knowing which seem reasonable or not but for whatever reason, we can't find very many.
Though the 115 kg was mentioned in a peer reviewed paper.
Maybe there was a mistaken identity between the 95 kg one and the 115 kg one?
After all, there are a ton of mistakes in areas with English as a second language.
For example, here was a misprint of a 125 kg Leopard from India.
Quote:The killed male leopard weighed 125kg and was 8.7 feet tall
Either or given weight for the Persian Leopard could be a misprint, but the 115 kg Leopard came from a from a more credible source.
The 115kg cat was revised to be 95kg and was indeed the same cat, allegedly.
And which peer reviewed paper was it claimed in?
I know it was claimed but dismissed in the Persian Study.
There was a vet who commented on the change from 115kg to 95kg but I don't know where it is now but I'm sure @Luipaard has it.
I actually agree that the Leopard was 95 kg.
It is just that the 115 kg Leopard was used in the source.
*This image is copyright of its original author
While the 95 kg came from a translated newspaper.
The 125 kg obviously came from a translation error.
Point is that newspaper errors can happen in areas where English is not spoken much or a second language.
I don't think the Leopard is 115 kg, but I definitely think that it may have been rivaling 95 kg.
The 115kg leopard was disregarded in that study.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Also, the specimens in this study weren't captured by the team. The dimensions and weights were via communication, literature or other. The only thing measured by this team were the skulls.
09-29-2020, 01:15 PM( This post was last modified: 09-29-2020, 01:17 PM by Luipaard )
Quote:The 115kg cat was revised to be 95kg and was indeed the same cat, allegedly. And which peer reviewed paper was it claimed in? I know it was claimed but dismissed in the Persian Study.
There was a vet who commented on the change from 115kg to 95kg but I don't know where it is now but I'm sure @Luipaard has it.
The veterinarian never said anything about a change. He simply spoke of a huge 100kg male:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Facebook page of Persian leopard conservation speaks of a 95kg. It was a big male no matter which weight is the accurate one.
Quote:Adding on to this, here is a large 240cm or 7'8'' Persian said to be at least 70kg
Is it possible that this is Borna/M3? After he has a total length of 241cm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:None higher than the 18.75 score on the list posted outside of the Persian/Congo Basin Skulls.
Which also wouldn't crack the top 10.
What do you mean? The one from Tanzania has a 19" skull? The one from Chad scores better too?
Quote:We do have a weight for this guy
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
"The score ended up to be 18 4/16(dry), the body was not that long(7.2 feet), he weighed 185 pounds. Length and weight are irrelevant, because if he had a full stomach, he would have weighed over 200 pounds. Something very interesting I thought, was that his tail had a circumference at the base of 10 inches."
So the 92kg Kenyan Leopard seems reasonable as well.
There's another huge, possible +100kg Namibian leopard in case you haven't seen this yet:
"got these pics from a friend.This Tom was shot last Monday. A lucky snapshot on the way to the bait. The scale showed only maximum 100 kg. Big like a lioness. They guessed him at 120 kg and minimum 15 years. What a monster from the Komas Highlands. Waidmannsheil to this outstanding cat."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is apparently its 'verified' weight:
"Some news : official weight 108 KG (the information will be made public there) During farm control at 150 m a lucky shot with the .300 Win Mag and a bullet splinter in the spine,one roar and than immediately dead."
Quote:The 115kg cat was revised to be 95kg and was indeed the same cat, allegedly. And which peer reviewed paper was it claimed in? I know it was claimed but dismissed in the Persian Study.
There was a vet who commented on the change from 115kg to 95kg but I don't know where it is now but I'm sure @Luipaard has it.
The veterinarian never said anything about a change. He simply spoke of a huge 100kg male:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Facebook page of Persian leopard conservation speaks of a 95kg. It was a big male no matter which weight is the accurate one.
Quote:Adding on to this, here is a large 240cm or 7'8'' Persian said to be at least 70kg
Is it possible that this is Borna/M3? After he has a total length of 241cm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:None higher than the 18.75 score on the list posted outside of the Persian/Congo Basin Skulls.
Which also wouldn't crack the top 10.
What do you mean? The one from Tanzania has a 19" skull? The one from Chad scores better too?
Quote:We do have a weight for this guy
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
"The score ended up to be 18 4/16(dry), the body was not that long(7.2 feet), he weighed 185 pounds. Length and weight are irrelevant, because if he had a full stomach, he would have weighed over 200 pounds. Something very interesting I thought, was that his tail had a circumference at the base of 10 inches."
So the 92kg Kenyan Leopard seems reasonable as well.
There's another huge, possible +100kg Namibian leopard in case you haven't seen this yet:
"got these pics from a friend.This Tom was shot last Monday. A lucky snapshot on the way to the bait. The scale showed only maximum 100 kg. Big like a lioness. They guessed him at 120 kg and minimum 15 years. What a monster from the Komas Highlands. Waidmannsheil to this outstanding cat."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is apparently its 'verified' weight:
"Some news : official weight 108 KG (the information will be made public there) During farm control at 150 m a lucky shot with the .300 Win Mag and a bullet splinter in the spine,one roar and than immediately dead."
120kg is impossible but 108kg could be plausible if we consider stomach content. Another huge specimen, no matter how much he weighed.
Chad?
The largest skull score on this list is 18.75'' with no data available
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The veterinarian never said anything about a change. He simply spoke of a huge 100kg male:
There was also another mention of 95 kg as well, but this is even another discrepancy in it's alleged weight.
Quote:Is it possible that this is Borna/M3? After he has a total length of 241cm.
Possible but not confirmed and a 1 cm difference.
Quote:What do you mean? The one from Tanzania has a 19" skull? The one from Chad scores better too?
Which Chad or Tanzania Scores are you talking about?
Top 20 Below: 1. 04/1997 Botswana, Okavango Rann Safaris "Africa" R 19 11/16" 2. 11/2001 R.S.A., Kalahari Select Safaris / Jan du Plessis R 19 10/16"
3. 08/2014 Tanzania, Masailand Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 19 8/16"
4. 09/1993 Tanzania, Ibanda John Moller / Tanzania Big Game Safaris R 19 2/16"
5. 07/2011 Tanzania, Masailand Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 19"
6. 04/2009 Namibia, Windhoek African Twilight Safaris R 18 15/16"
7. 09/1986 Tanzania, Rungwa Richard Trappe / Bushmen Safaris R 18 14/16" 8. 04/2010 R.S.A., Mabula Mabula Pro Safaris / David H 18 14/16" 9. 07/2015 Zimbabwe, Mateke Hills Somerby Safaris / Charles Humphries R 18 14/16"
10. 10/1982 R.S.A. Fred Rademeyer R 18 10/16"
11. 01/1963 Tanzania, central John Lawrence R 18 8/16"
12. 09/2008 Tanzania, Lukwati Danny McCallum / Graham Jones R 18 5/16"
13. 07/2018 Namibia, Otavi Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 18 5/16"
14. 09/1975 Zambia, Luangwa Valley Angus MacLagan R 18 4/16"
15. 08/1983 Tanzania, Masailand George Angelides R 18 4/16"
16. 08/1984 Tanzania, Mto Wa Mbu Franz J. Wengert R 18 4/16"
17. 08 Namibia, Khomas Sumsare / Gerard Erasmus R 18 4/16" 18. 01/1969 Kenya, Aberdares John Russell R 18 2/16"
19. 05/2007 Namibia, Khomas Sumsare / Gerard Erasmus R 18 2/16"
20. 05/2014 R.S.A., Limpopo Adventures Africa / Dean Robinson R 18 2/16"
Quote:"got these pics from a friend.This Tom was shot last Monday. A lucky snapshot on the way to the bait. The scale showed only maximum 100 kg. Big like a lioness. They guessed him at 120 kg and minimum 15 years. What a monster from the Komas Highlands. Waidmannsheil to this outstanding cat."
Nice sized Leopard but I'd wager the scale was off and it's mentioned by a few
"@ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS
Any info on this cat?
Beautiful specimen. I dont want to be a spanner in the cog, but I think their estimation is a bit off. Just my honest opinion."
"No matter the weight, nice looking cat and congrats to the hunter!"
"Marius, I do not believe that weight also. Although a leopard can eat 20kg of meat easy, or 30% of body mass that would have put him at around 90kg with an completely empty stomach to reach 120kg. TAn completey empty stomach would be rare in the region, especially if he was coming to the bait regularly. They eat on average 3.5 to 4kg of meat per day. So with a normal stomach, he should have around that amount in his belly. If he has just found the bait, or visited it infrequently, he may have gorged himself and eaten more. He does look full and very healthy so I would guess max 90kg.
I have hunted a lot of cats, and the heaviest was 83kg, with a normal or should I say not completely stuffed stomach. The cat in photo looks dehydrated, (look at the eye balls). Who conducted the hunt? Was it maybe chased by dogs illegally?"
"Great leopard and a old specimen no doubt.....120-130KG not a chance....
My observations just from the pictures....I was not there but I have hunted more than my fair share of leopards....two of which went over 200 lbs, one of 220 lbs(100 kg) and another 216 lbs(97 kg), both super cats....
The shot placement is very high on the shoulder.....so the cat was wounded.....follow up took a long time....cat was eventually found....dead, but the result is the bloated appearance of the leopard(making it look bigger than what it is/was), the sunken eyes and dull color is a dead giveaway for that.....no shot and recovered cat has dull sunken eyes......may well have been chased for a long time by hounds but that is not my first assessment....
Great leopard and yes very old and a once in a lifetime cat, but this is not a 200 lb plus leopard by a long margin....."
"No doubt a once in a lifetime trophy.
I just comment on what I see in the pictures, this would never be a killing shot on such a large and old leopard....
There is no way this leopard weights 264 lbs....
My opinion, having shot 7 leopards in my first 2 years as an apprentice and many more since...."
Farmers scales need to be taken with a grain of salt..... But still a large Leopard no doubt. This is also proving my point that Savannah Cats can be as large as anywhere else, prey density is 2nd to none in E. Africa and they take full advantage of it.
Quote:The 115kg cat was revised to be 95kg and was indeed the same cat, allegedly. And which peer reviewed paper was it claimed in? I know it was claimed but dismissed in the Persian Study.
There was a vet who commented on the change from 115kg to 95kg but I don't know where it is now but I'm sure @Luipaard has it.
The veterinarian never said anything about a change. He simply spoke of a huge 100kg male:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Facebook page of Persian leopard conservation speaks of a 95kg. It was a big male no matter which weight is the accurate one.
Quote:Adding on to this, here is a large 240cm or 7'8'' Persian said to be at least 70kg
Is it possible that this is Borna/M3? After he has a total length of 241cm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:None higher than the 18.75 score on the list posted outside of the Persian/Congo Basin Skulls.
Which also wouldn't crack the top 10.
What do you mean? The one from Tanzania has a 19" skull? The one from Chad scores better too?
Quote:We do have a weight for this guy
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
"The score ended up to be 18 4/16(dry), the body was not that long(7.2 feet), he weighed 185 pounds. Length and weight are irrelevant, because if he had a full stomach, he would have weighed over 200 pounds. Something very interesting I thought, was that his tail had a circumference at the base of 10 inches."
So the 92kg Kenyan Leopard seems reasonable as well.
There's another huge, possible +100kg Namibian leopard in case you haven't seen this yet:
"got these pics from a friend.This Tom was shot last Monday. A lucky snapshot on the way to the bait. The scale showed only maximum 100 kg. Big like a lioness. They guessed him at 120 kg and minimum 15 years. What a monster from the Komas Highlands. Waidmannsheil to this outstanding cat."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is apparently its 'verified' weight:
"Some news : official weight 108 KG (the information will be made public there) During farm control at 150 m a lucky shot with the .300 Win Mag and a bullet splinter in the spine,one roar and than immediately dead."
120kg is impossible but 108kg could be plausible if we consider stomach content. Another huge specimen, no matter how much he weighed.
Chad?
The largest skull score on this list is 18.75'' with no data available
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The veterinarian never said anything about a change. He simply spoke of a huge 100kg male:
There was also another mention of 95 kg as well, but this is even another discrepancy in it's alleged weight.
Quote:Is it possible that this is Borna/M3? After he has a total length of 241cm.
Possible but not confirmed and a 1 cm difference.
Quote:What do you mean? The one from Tanzania has a 19" skull? The one from Chad scores better too?
Which Chad or Tanzania Scores are you talking about?
Top 20 Below: 1. 04/1997 Botswana, Okavango Rann Safaris "Africa" R 19 11/16" 2. 11/2001 R.S.A., Kalahari Select Safaris / Jan du Plessis R 19 10/16"
3. 08/2014 Tanzania, Masailand Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 19 8/16"
4. 09/1993 Tanzania, Ibanda John Moller / Tanzania Big Game Safaris R 19 2/16"
5. 07/2011 Tanzania, Masailand Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 19"
6. 04/2009 Namibia, Windhoek African Twilight Safaris R 18 15/16"
7. 09/1986 Tanzania, Rungwa Richard Trappe / Bushmen Safaris R 18 14/16" 8. 04/2010 R.S.A., Mabula Mabula Pro Safaris / David H 18 14/16" 9. 07/2015 Zimbabwe, Mateke Hills Somerby Safaris / Charles Humphries R 18 14/16"
10. 10/1982 R.S.A. Fred Rademeyer R 18 10/16"
11. 01/1963 Tanzania, central John Lawrence R 18 8/16"
12. 09/2008 Tanzania, Lukwati Danny McCallum / Graham Jones R 18 5/16"
13. 07/2018 Namibia, Otavi Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 18 5/16"
14. 09/1975 Zambia, Luangwa Valley Angus MacLagan R 18 4/16"
15. 08/1983 Tanzania, Masailand George Angelides R 18 4/16"
16. 08/1984 Tanzania, Mto Wa Mbu Franz J. Wengert R 18 4/16"
17. 08 Namibia, Khomas Sumsare / Gerard Erasmus R 18 4/16" 18. 01/1969 Kenya, Aberdares John Russell R 18 2/16"
19. 05/2007 Namibia, Khomas Sumsare / Gerard Erasmus R 18 2/16"
20. 05/2014 R.S.A., Limpopo Adventures Africa / Dean Robinson R 18 2/16"
Quote:"got these pics from a friend.This Tom was shot last Monday. A lucky snapshot on the way to the bait. The scale showed only maximum 100 kg. Big like a lioness. They guessed him at 120 kg and minimum 15 years. What a monster from the Komas Highlands. Waidmannsheil to this outstanding cat."
Nice sized Leopard but I'd wager the scale was off and it's mentioned by a few
"@ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS
Any info on this cat?
Beautiful specimen. I dont want to be a spanner in the cog, but I think their estimation is a bit off. Just my honest opinion."
"No matter the weight, nice looking cat and congrats to the hunter!"
"Marius, I do not believe that weight also. Although a leopard can eat 20kg of meat easy, or 30% of body mass that would have put him at around 90kg with an completely empty stomach to reach 120kg. TAn completey empty stomach would be rare in the region, especially if he was coming to the bait regularly. They eat on average 3.5 to 4kg of meat per day. So with a normal stomach, he should have around that amount in his belly. If he has just found the bait, or visited it infrequently, he may have gorged himself and eaten more. He does look full and very healthy so I would guess max 90kg.
I have hunted a lot of cats, and the heaviest was 83kg, with a normal or should I say not completely stuffed stomach. The cat in photo looks dehydrated, (look at the eye balls). Who conducted the hunt? Was it maybe chased by dogs illegally?"
"Great leopard and a old specimen no doubt.....120-130KG not a chance....
My observations just from the pictures....I was not there but I have hunted more than my fair share of leopards....two of which went over 200 lbs, one of 220 lbs(100 kg) and another 216 lbs(97 kg), both super cats....
The shot placement is very high on the shoulder.....so the cat was wounded.....follow up took a long time....cat was eventually found....dead, but the result is the bloated appearance of the leopard(making it look bigger than what it is/was), the sunken eyes and dull color is a dead giveaway for that.....no shot and recovered cat has dull sunken eyes......may well have been chased for a long time by hounds but that is not my first assessment....
Great leopard and yes very old and a once in a lifetime cat, but this is not a 200 lb plus leopard by a long margin....."
"No doubt a once in a lifetime trophy.
I just comment on what I see in the pictures, this would never be a killing shot on such a large and old leopard....
There is no way this leopard weights 264 lbs....
My opinion, having shot 7 leopards in my first 2 years as an apprentice and many more since...."
Farmers scales need to be taken with a grain of salt..... But still a large Leopard no doubt. This is also proving my point that Savannah Cats can be as large as anywhere else, prey density is 2nd to none in E. Africa and they take full advantage of it.
Quote:Chad?
The largest skull score on this list is 18.75'' with no data available
I told you before that I only included skulls from Kenya. If you look at the original list, there are bigger ones than the 18.75" one such as skulls from Chad and Tanzania:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Apart from the Kenyan record skull from Magadi, Central African (Chad, Sierra Leone & Gabon) skulls once again top the table
So far we have a few weights correlated with skull length, including 2 Kenyan leopards:
78kg Kenyan leopard (260 mm skull length)
92,5kg Kenyan leopard (276,23 mm skull length)
95kg/115kg Persian leopard (275 mm-280 mm skull length)
Quote:The 115kg cat was revised to be 95kg and was indeed the same cat, allegedly. And which peer reviewed paper was it claimed in? I know it was claimed but dismissed in the Persian Study.
There was a vet who commented on the change from 115kg to 95kg but I don't know where it is now but I'm sure @Luipaard has it.
The veterinarian never said anything about a change. He simply spoke of a huge 100kg male:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Facebook page of Persian leopard conservation speaks of a 95kg. It was a big male no matter which weight is the accurate one.
Quote:Adding on to this, here is a large 240cm or 7'8'' Persian said to be at least 70kg
Is it possible that this is Borna/M3? After he has a total length of 241cm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:None higher than the 18.75 score on the list posted outside of the Persian/Congo Basin Skulls.
Which also wouldn't crack the top 10.
What do you mean? The one from Tanzania has a 19" skull? The one from Chad scores better too?
Quote:We do have a weight for this guy
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
"The score ended up to be 18 4/16(dry), the body was not that long(7.2 feet), he weighed 185 pounds. Length and weight are irrelevant, because if he had a full stomach, he would have weighed over 200 pounds. Something very interesting I thought, was that his tail had a circumference at the base of 10 inches."
So the 92kg Kenyan Leopard seems reasonable as well.
There's another huge, possible +100kg Namibian leopard in case you haven't seen this yet:
"got these pics from a friend.This Tom was shot last Monday. A lucky snapshot on the way to the bait. The scale showed only maximum 100 kg. Big like a lioness. They guessed him at 120 kg and minimum 15 years. What a monster from the Komas Highlands. Waidmannsheil to this outstanding cat."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is apparently its 'verified' weight:
"Some news : official weight 108 KG (the information will be made public there) During farm control at 150 m a lucky shot with the .300 Win Mag and a bullet splinter in the spine,one roar and than immediately dead."
120kg is impossible but 108kg could be plausible if we consider stomach content. Another huge specimen, no matter how much he weighed.
Chad?
The largest skull score on this list is 18.75'' with no data available
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The veterinarian never said anything about a change. He simply spoke of a huge 100kg male:
There was also another mention of 95 kg as well, but this is even another discrepancy in it's alleged weight.
Quote:Is it possible that this is Borna/M3? After he has a total length of 241cm.
Possible but not confirmed and a 1 cm difference.
Quote:What do you mean? The one from Tanzania has a 19" skull? The one from Chad scores better too?
Which Chad or Tanzania Scores are you talking about?
Top 20 Below: 1. 04/1997 Botswana, Okavango Rann Safaris "Africa" R 19 11/16" 2. 11/2001 R.S.A., Kalahari Select Safaris / Jan du Plessis R 19 10/16"
3. 08/2014 Tanzania, Masailand Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 19 8/16"
4. 09/1993 Tanzania, Ibanda John Moller / Tanzania Big Game Safaris R 19 2/16"
5. 07/2011 Tanzania, Masailand Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 19"
6. 04/2009 Namibia, Windhoek African Twilight Safaris R 18 15/16"
7. 09/1986 Tanzania, Rungwa Richard Trappe / Bushmen Safaris R 18 14/16" 8. 04/2010 R.S.A., Mabula Mabula Pro Safaris / David H 18 14/16" 9. 07/2015 Zimbabwe, Mateke Hills Somerby Safaris / Charles Humphries R 18 14/16"
10. 10/1982 R.S.A. Fred Rademeyer R 18 10/16"
11. 01/1963 Tanzania, central John Lawrence R 18 8/16"
12. 09/2008 Tanzania, Lukwati Danny McCallum / Graham Jones R 18 5/16"
13. 07/2018 Namibia, Otavi Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 18 5/16"
14. 09/1975 Zambia, Luangwa Valley Angus MacLagan R 18 4/16"
15. 08/1983 Tanzania, Masailand George Angelides R 18 4/16"
16. 08/1984 Tanzania, Mto Wa Mbu Franz J. Wengert R 18 4/16"
17. 08 Namibia, Khomas Sumsare / Gerard Erasmus R 18 4/16" 18. 01/1969 Kenya, Aberdares John Russell R 18 2/16"
19. 05/2007 Namibia, Khomas Sumsare / Gerard Erasmus R 18 2/16"
20. 05/2014 R.S.A., Limpopo Adventures Africa / Dean Robinson R 18 2/16"
Quote:"got these pics from a friend.This Tom was shot last Monday. A lucky snapshot on the way to the bait. The scale showed only maximum 100 kg. Big like a lioness. They guessed him at 120 kg and minimum 15 years. What a monster from the Komas Highlands. Waidmannsheil to this outstanding cat."
Nice sized Leopard but I'd wager the scale was off and it's mentioned by a few
"@ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS
Any info on this cat?
Beautiful specimen. I dont want to be a spanner in the cog, but I think their estimation is a bit off. Just my honest opinion."
"No matter the weight, nice looking cat and congrats to the hunter!"
"Marius, I do not believe that weight also. Although a leopard can eat 20kg of meat easy, or 30% of body mass that would have put him at around 90kg with an completely empty stomach to reach 120kg. TAn completey empty stomach would be rare in the region, especially if he was coming to the bait regularly. They eat on average 3.5 to 4kg of meat per day. So with a normal stomach, he should have around that amount in his belly. If he has just found the bait, or visited it infrequently, he may have gorged himself and eaten more. He does look full and very healthy so I would guess max 90kg.
I have hunted a lot of cats, and the heaviest was 83kg, with a normal or should I say not completely stuffed stomach. The cat in photo looks dehydrated, (look at the eye balls). Who conducted the hunt? Was it maybe chased by dogs illegally?"
"Great leopard and a old specimen no doubt.....120-130KG not a chance....
My observations just from the pictures....I was not there but I have hunted more than my fair share of leopards....two of which went over 200 lbs, one of 220 lbs(100 kg) and another 216 lbs(97 kg), both super cats....
The shot placement is very high on the shoulder.....so the cat was wounded.....follow up took a long time....cat was eventually found....dead, but the result is the bloated appearance of the leopard(making it look bigger than what it is/was), the sunken eyes and dull color is a dead giveaway for that.....no shot and recovered cat has dull sunken eyes......may well have been chased for a long time by hounds but that is not my first assessment....
Great leopard and yes very old and a once in a lifetime cat, but this is not a 200 lb plus leopard by a long margin....."
"No doubt a once in a lifetime trophy.
I just comment on what I see in the pictures, this would never be a killing shot on such a large and old leopard....
There is no way this leopard weights 264 lbs....
My opinion, having shot 7 leopards in my first 2 years as an apprentice and many more since...."
Farmers scales need to be taken with a grain of salt..... But still a large Leopard no doubt. This is also proving my point that Savannah Cats can be as large as anywhere else, prey density is 2nd to none in E. Africa and they take full advantage of it.
Quote:Chad?
The largest skull score on this list is 18.75'' with no data available
I told you before that I only included skulls from Kenya. If you look at the original list, there are bigger ones than the 18.75" one such as skulls from Chad and Tanzania:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Apart from the Kenyan record skull from Magadi, Central African (Chad, Sierra Leone & Gabon) skulls once again top the table
So far we have a few weights correlated with skull length, including 2 Kenyan leopards:
78kg Kenyan leopard (260 mm skull length)
92,5kg Kenyan leopard (276,23 mm skull length)
95kg/115kg Persian leopard (275 mm-280 mm skull length)
I can't see the fraction for either, what are they?
And none are going to score any higher on that SCI list.
Also, where are you getting the 275mm-280mm Skull Length for the Persian?
Also the length's shown are relatively short with no difference from Mt. Kenya to Masailand.
Again we are seeing similar sizes no matter the location of Africa.
You mentioned that the Savanna Leopards are big due to living in an area with the highest prey density?
Would that mean the Leopards in forest-savanna mosaics are equal to or possibly bigger due to having a great amount of prey for both ecosystems?
Kenyan Highland Leopards certainly have access to large amounts of prey but they are dispersed in smaller pockets, they don't gather in near the numbers you see in the serengeti for instance.
At this point I think we have enough skulls and weights from all over Africa that show Leopards can obtain large size throughout, the idea of Forest or Persians being the top tier with no match is not accurate.
Modern Weights and Measurements of Leopards
