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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars
Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars
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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars
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JOARES MAY ON HIS ADVENTURES CAPTURING JAGUARS.
https://empty.com.br/blog/oncas-ecco/ ''At the end of last year, Joares May, a veterinarian who has been working in the conservation of Brazilian wild carnivores for 12 years he's always aiming at their protection, health and their monitoring, he participated of two projects - Panthera and Onçafari where he managed to capture 4 jaguars.'' "We managed to capture a pair, the 130 Kg male which was the heaviest jaguar to date along with a female of 70 Kg. And we ended up recapturing a 115 Kg male so his necklace was removed. The pair on the other hand was put on the necklace and now they're being monitored 24 hours. The fourth jaguar found was during the Onçafari Expedition - this project is at Refúgio Ecológico Caiman in Mirada - MS. A female of about 95 Kg that was already being monitored by cameras and direct observation. She had a cub which could make the capture much more dangerous, the cub was a young female of almost one year old. Both were observed two days before the capture and were closely followed for a week after the capture.''  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author The females.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author NOTE: He stated the 130 kg male being the heaviest captured, I didn't find the date/year of when Joares May made that claim even in the link so I assume maybe that jaguar said to be the heaviest was probably captured before Lopez male of 148 kg. @"OncaAtrox" ID Weight Source Area Age Unknow 115 kg Panthera N.Pantanal Adult ID Weight Source Area Age Unknown 130 kg Panthera N.Pantanal Adult These large Pantanal jaguars don't even surprise me anymore, they're so common everytime I bump into them nowadays I am like ''one more to join the table and this is it'', but I am really looking forward to fill the Central Pantanal jaguars area of the table though, we only got 2 so far, I can't wait to find out more about those domestic horse eaters.
This is the table of the Atlantic Forest Jaguars from Morro do Diabo ( Hill of the Devil ) and as I mentioned in the jaguars thread just like the Atlantic Forest Jaguars from Parque Estadual de Ivinhemas which males reach and surpass the 100 kg range, the ones from Morro do Diabo are also large.
Atlantic Forest males average 85.8 kg they're definitely the third largest population of jaguars inside Brazil after Pantanal and Cerrado jaguars. https://www.rufford.org/files/Natureza%2...043-58.pdf Macho = Male Fêmea = Female  *This image is copyright of its original author Melanistic and regular Yellow wild Atlantic Forest Jaguars together from Morro do Diabo State Park.  *This image is copyright of its original author These Jaguars bellow ( male and female ) are Atlantic Forest Jaguars captured in Alto Rio Paraná. They're pretty big too. Atlantic Forest Jaguar cornered up tree during the capture.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
From the jaguar directory thread, I posted a story on a Chaco jaguar who's pugmark width measured 10 cm, and I have felt is the same pugmark that measured close to 15 cm in length that I posted some time ago. @peter I wanted to ask you, based on the knowledge you have of the paw sizes of tigresses and small tigers, would a pugmark of a similar dimension compare? I've been under the assumption that tigresses usually have pugmarks of 10-12 cm in width. It would be interesting to draw the parallel because Chaco jaguars have been compared in the past to Sumatran tigers by hunters and comparing them to the data that we do have on tigers would give us a better idea of their size potential. Chaco jaguars are severely understudied and highly threatened.
 (08-04-2020, 03:35 AM)Balam Wrote: From the jaguar directory thread, I posted a story on a Chaco jaguar who's pugmark width measured 10 cm, and I have felt is the same pugmark that measured close to 15 cm in length that I posted some time ago. @peter I wanted to ask you, based on the knowledge you have of the paw sizes of tigresses and small tigers, would a pugmark of a similar dimension compare? I've been under the assumption that tigresses usually have pugmarks of 10-12 cm in width. It would be interesting to draw the parallel because Chaco jaguars have been compared in the past to Sumatran tigers by hunters and comparing them to the data that we do have on tigers would give us a better idea of their size potential. Chaco jaguars are severely understudied and highly threatened. BALAM (Onca?) a - Difference between heel width and a pugmark Before answering the question, I decided for a few words on the difference between a print (pugmark) and the heel width. In this photograph (pugmark of a male Amur tiger first posted by Rage), you can see the difference between a complete print and the heel width:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here's the tiger who left the print:  *This image is copyright of its original author b - Heel width of wild Amur tigers In wild Amur tigresses, the heel width ranges between 8,0-10,0 cm. In adult wild male Amur tigers, it ranges between 10,5-12,8 cm. The heel width in exceptional males can reach 13,5 cm. According to Tigerluver, a male width a heel width of 13,5 cm. ranges between 259-339 kg. One captive male Amur tiger in a UK zoo just over 600 pounds (272,16 kg.) had a heel width of 14,1 cm. I don't remember if it's this tiger, but I do know he was just over 600 pounds as well:  *This image is copyright of its original author c - Further reading A few months ago, I posted extensively on the relation between heel width and weight in wild Amur tigers in the tiger extinction thread (posts 2,467-2,481 and post 2,492). Heel width, to keep it short, is one of the best indicators of weight in wild big cats (and brown bears). d - A wild male Amur tiger with a heel width of 13,5 cm. For different reasons (discussed in the tiger extinction thread), researchers today are hesitant to dart healthy wild male Amur tigers. This means we have no option but to use data collected before, say, 2013. The heaviest weighed was a young adult male of 212 kg., but he still had some growing to do and chances are some individuals recently seen well exceed that mark. The male below had a heel width of 13,5 cm. Watch the short and very robust fore-limbs and the deep chest. I know the snow accounts for some loss of length, but it's clear this male is as robust as they come:  *This image is copyright of its original author Although the conditions in the southern and southeastern part seem to be a bit better, the northern part of Sichote-Alin seems to produce the largest males. e - A few pictures Tracking a male Amur tiger. When this photograp was taken, not one of the captured males exceeded 205 kg. in weight:  *This image is copyright of its original author Based on what I have (old and new information), I'd say tigers living just south of the Himalayas could be the largest wild big cats today (averages). This photograph (taken in Rajaji) was first posted by Roflcopters. I do not doubt some males in that part of India are close to 650 pounds (294,84 kg.):  *This image is copyright of its original author Here's one from Bengt Berg (northern India, close to Bhutan). The heaviest tiger he shot was 565 pounds. He didn't shoot the male that left the print below in order to allow him to pass on his genes. Berg saw the 565-pound male and the Bhutan tiger from very close range. The tiger he didn't shoot was quite a bit bigger (well over 600 pounds). Although known as the 'Killer of Man', the giant from Bhutan hunted male wild buffalos only. Every buffalo he killed was found with his enormous horns sticking in the ground. Berg was very impressed and wrote he must have been immensely powerful:  *This image is copyright of its original author f - Chaco jaguars The table you and Dark Jaguar posted in this thread says wild male jaguars in the southern part of Brazil are very robust for their length. Same for the photographs i saw. Weightwise, the heaviest no doubt compare to the largest Amur tigresses. As these range between 8,0-10,0 cm. in heel width, it's very likely the Chaco male with a heel width of 10,0 cm. was about as heavy as the heaviest tigress. What's heavy in wild Amur tigresses today? There's not much information, but the heaviest captured in the period 1992-2012 ranged between 125-130 kg. In that period, the heaviest males ranged between 200-212 kg. About 50-100 years ago, when Amur tigers were on their way out, individuals well exceeding that mark (males and females), have been shot. One of the largest females I know of, although still youngish, was 367 pounds (166,47 kg.). As a result of the population bottleneck of the thirties, forties and fifties of the last century, Amur tigers today are a bit smaller. Individual variation also has been affected. But the Russians are very serious about protection and the number of tigers is increasing all the time. As the conditions have improved as well, chances are wild Amur tigers will produce more large individuals in the near future. Back to jaguars. When measuring skulls, I noticed that skulls from jaguars shot in the southwestern part of South America were larger (and more robust) than those of jaguars shot in the northern part. I saw a large skull from Argentina and a few large skulls from Bolivia. Those who hunted them (referring to a few people I met) confirmed jaguars in the southwestern part of South America, apart from a few exceptions (like the jaguar recently poached in Surinam), are bigger than their relatives living in the northern part. Same for pumas, so it seems. Some males and females seen in Patagonia and the southern part of Chili seem to be in a different league. Weight- and lengthwise, large pumas in Canada and the northwestern part of the USA compare, but the Patagonians seem to have bigger, more rounded and more robust skulls. I hope you'll be able to find out a bit more about jaguars living in the northern part of Argentina. My guess is they more or less compare to Pantanal jaguars. Same for Bolivia. Anything known about Paraguay? To finish the post, two pictures. This male definitely compares to a large male Sumatran tiger:  *This image is copyright of its original author Skull of a male rainforest leopard (central part of western Africa, left) and a male jaguar from Bolivia (right). The skull of the leopard is flatter, but not much shorter (just over 1 inch). The upper canines of the leopard are missing, but my guess is they would have compared for length. The main difference between both skulls is the jaguar skull is more elevated and more robust (heavier). Photograph taken by 'Wanderfalke' in the Staatliches Museum für Naturkunde Stuttgart, 2012. The largest leopard skulls can exceed 280 mm. in greatest total length, whereas large jaguar skulls exceed 300,00 mm. Although generally a bit shorter, large jaguar skulls compare to skulls of male Sumatran tigers in quite many respects. One of the largest jaguar I know is (was) in the Netherlands. Unfortunately, the owner of the skull got cold feet just before we were supposed to meet:  *This image is copyright of its original author
@peter thanks for the explanation! @Dark Jaguar had recently posted on the size comparisons thread the pug mark of a jaguar that measured 14 cm in total, although now by reading your explanation I can see that taking the heel width is the best and most accurate way to gage overall size. Maybe Dark can repost that picture here for is to analyze the heel width.
With that in mind, my guess is that a jaguar with complete paw width of 10 cm would probably yield a heel width of around 8 cm, which still somewhat compares to that of a tigress. Now, I recall reading that proportionally jaguars have the widest paws on the Pantherines, so using the paw widths to compare with those of tigers might end up providing inaccurate results as the latter can still grow bigger with a proportionally thinner paw (I will investigate this further and maybe locate the study I read this from, it was a while ago). The past paragraph does leads me to believe that similar to skull length, paw size might not be the best indicator go use when comparing the sizes of two animals. A clear example of this are the longer skulls we see on lions, that sometimes both proportionally and totally end being longer than those than tigers, even if the tiger is the heavier animal. Nonetheless having this data from Chaco jaguars gives an inside on them, hopefully we can continue getting more in the upcoming months.
@Balam @peter
Those are some giant tiger pugmarks both the Siberian tiger and the Bhutan male who preyed only on adult wild male buffallos, very impressive predation feat too. As a request of Balam here are the Pantanal jaguars pugmarks ( male and female ) measured by the African trackers from Londolozi Andrea and Richard when they went to Pantanal to help Onçafari project tracking wild jaguars. This time I am gonna add up more details on their journey the day when they found those Pugmarks. Its very worth reading it, they also mentioned how focused jaguars are walking on straight line. Source: https://oncafarijaguarproject.wordpress....a-pintada/ ''We found tracks of a female in the early hours of the morning. Her zigzag movements across the road were different from all other tracks we have inspected to date. From experience jaguars move quickly and directly in a straight line. They are the most focused cats I have had the experience of working with. Like enthusiastic policemen at a crime scene, we bowed our necks and scourged around for clues. All the senses put to the test. '' Garoa female Pantanal Jaguar Pugmark. ( Front left paw )  *This image is copyright of its original author ''A couple of hundred meters down a game path and another set of tracks had joined those that we were following.'' These tracks of a male were much larger. They measured close on 14 cm in width.  *This image is copyright of its original author ''We now had two sets of tracks: a female and a male. With a spring in their step, and an inspiring air of calm confidence, the trackers set to work. About an hour after the first track and they had found the telltale marks and signs of mating. You could clearly see in the sandy ground where the female had dug her claws in, and the male had mounted her. They had slept nearby recuperating from the arduous task. As the bush got denser so we moved more slowly. At times we moved at a painful snails pace, but it was necessary as the sandy soil had long since been replaced by decaying leaf matter. Not only was it harder to stay on the tracks, but also to stay quiet was becoming near impossible. '' ''I felt privileged to be walking behind these two trackers, I shadowed them taking the time to observe how they moved their bodies, where they looked and when they listened. The art of tracking was alive and kicking that morning. The day started to heat up, the mosquitoes intensified and the stomachs started rumbling, but the team never lost focus… We got to a point where the tracks spiraled around in all directions. Andrea and Richard paused. Their sixth sense told them that we were very close. It was at this exact moment that we heard the unmistakable sound of cats mating. I have been lucky enough to hear it many times, with leopard and lion, but to hear this sound with jaguars was an entire new ball game. We were on foot, and we were close… We edged forward hoping to get a view of the jaguars. We could not have been more than fifty meters away when we heard them growl and run. They must have heard or seen us coming and decided to move away. We would not follow. '' Richard and Andrea discuss the last direction of the tracks.  *This image is copyright of its original author They're also the same ones who stated Fantasma ( ghost ) old Pantanal male was the same size as a lioness and with these Londolozi trackers most likely spending their whole lives seeing wild lionesses in Africa and the first time they see an adult pantanal male jaguar already makes that comparison....Body Sizewise its probably the most accurate ''eye comparison'' we can get if you ask me. ''A male Jaguar, known by the project as Fantasma, is believed to be the dominant male of the area. Incredibly, he is the same size as a lioness.'' https://blog.londolozi.com/2013/10/05/an...-trackers/  *This image is copyright of its original author Other pics of Fantasma (ghost) old Pantanal male.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Empty Fantasma male, yet look quite big and robust.  *This image is copyright of its original author
(08-04-2020, 06:06 AM)Balam Wrote: @peter thanks for the explanation! @Dark Jaguar had recently posted on the size comparisons thread the pug mark of a jaguar that measured 14 cm in total, although now by reading your explanation I can see that taking the heel width is the best and most accurate way to gage overall size. Maybe Dark can repost that picture here for is to analyze the heel width. BALAM What I have, suggests heel width could be the best indicator of weight. Tigers living in elevated regions seem to leave smaller pugmarks than similar-sized tigers in alluvial plains. A large male shot in the Siwaliks (northern India) over a century ago left pugmarks not much larger than those of a large male leopard. This although he was both long and heavy. The Forest Officer who saw them wrote he had seen it more than once in tigers shot in elevated regions. Maybe cats living in elevated regions walk in a different way as a result of the conditions. Although large tigers quite often have large skulls (absolutes), skull size is not a good indicator of size in tigers. The main reason is individual variation. Chest circumference, on the other hand, seems to be a good indicator of weight in both tigers and brown bears. My guess is it isn't much different in lions, jaguars and leopards. DARK JAGUAR Very interesting post on African trackers in Brazil. Maybe the tracks they followed expressed the mood of both cats, but it's also possible jaguars walk in a different way than lions. 
OK so we’ve all seen the big specimens from the Pantanal, but let’s not forget the small specimens as well considering they’re also a part of the population. My question then naturally is how often are the males there are actually under 100kg? And what is a small size range for females?
(08-09-2020, 10:06 AM)Richardrli Wrote: OK so we’ve all seen the big specimens from the Pantanal, but let’s not forget the small specimens as well considering they’re also a part of the population. My question then naturally is how often are the males there are actually under 100kg? And what is a small size range for females? I'm reposting the full list of measurements we have gathered here:  *This image is copyright of its original author Clearly, males under 100 kg in their prime (not old or sub-adults) are rare, a prime male from Pantanal should be above 110 kg more often than not. We aren't posting these large jaguars because they are large, we simply post the data we receive, and it so happens that in most cases the individuals surpass 100 kg in weight. Nobody is ignoring smaller specimens of the population, they're just not as common as you might think. (08-09-2020, 10:06 AM)Richardrli Wrote: OK so we’ve all seen the big specimens from the Pantanal, but let’s not forget the small specimens as well considering they’re also a part of the population. My question then naturally is how often are the males there are actually under 100kg? And what is a small size range for females? @Richardrli Nobody is forgeting the small Pantanal male jaguars here, I make sure to add every individual to the table regardless of sizes. From the table - As you can see in the table out of 51 Pantanal males only 5 are bellow 100 kg and 3 of those males ages are unknown ( there's a possibility they could not be adult males ). From Panthera - Fernando Tortato told me from all male jaguars captured by Panthera org only one male weighed bellow 100 kg and he said Pantanal jaguars are really big, go to the Jaguar thread to see more details. It just proves what I have mentioned a while ago from each small male jaguar in Pantanal ( which is rare to happen nowadays ) there are other 4 large males or more. So in modern days a small adult Pantanal male of 100 kg is rare to see. They're larger than you imagine. About the females considering a large pantanal female surpass the 90 kg range and one have been registered weighing 110 kg, a 76 kg adult modern Pantanal female would be very small if you ask me. Also Wild Cerrado male jaguars nowadays normally reach and surpass the 110 kg range, so for the Pantanal males to normally be above 100 kg is a piece of cake.  (08-09-2020, 10:45 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(08-09-2020, 10:06 AM)Richardrli Wrote: OK so we’ve all seen the big specimens from the Pantanal, but let’s not forget the small specimens as well considering they’re also a part of the population. My question then naturally is how often are the males there are actually under 100kg? And what is a small size range for females? I said it the minute I came back from the Pantanal. The 100kg average used by almeida was during the heart of the Jaguar slaughter. But it wasn't just Jaguars being slaughtered but Caiman by the millions were being slaughtered each year as well. Once protections were put in place for the Jaguar and Caiman their numbers recovered. Once they had ample prey and moderate protection we saw them grow in size. Then comes the sub population of the pantanala *north and south* both of which offer slight variations of prey. I still believe the North is going to offer the largest of Jaguars but the South can certainly match it. Same with Los llanos if they can offer the same protections again. Paulo was the one who told me about Fernando Tortato and also taught me about many other Jaguars he and Paul Donahue have ID'd over the years. No offense to anyone at Panthera but none of them know as much about Jaguars in the Pantanal as people like Paulo and Paul. Not saying they aren't experts either because they absolutely are but Panthera is there for research and generally it's about a specific category *they're in the north looking for corridors* But Paul and Paulo live there during tourist season, they spend every waking moment with these Jaguars. And it was Paulo who told me how the mighty Adriano was not nearly the largest Jaguar in the North and not only wasn't he in the top class but there were also quite a few who were near his size who'd be considered normal male Pantanal Jaguars. "Adriano is a bulky guy but average in frame" is what he said. "There are a few that are much larger than he is and many around his size." From there I knew that 100kg Jaguars aren't going to last in this highly competitive "wild west" territory for long. The outlier to this was Marley, he was a small Jaguar who not only was born in the Northern Pantanal but never got kicked out. Paulo said he was a small guy with a fearless attitude but then it turned out that even he, the "small guy" was 120kg. For me that pretty much sealed the deal. 100kg Jaguars aren't lasting long in these highly competitive territories. They will be pushed out to the fringes and only after they grow in size and experience are they able to come back and possibly knock off one of the territory males and take their spot for a short time. I'd argue that their reigns may be some of the shortest amongst big cats but they make the most of it and are the apex of their species without question. (08-09-2020, 03:49 PM)Pckts Wrote:(08-09-2020, 10:45 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(08-09-2020, 10:06 AM)Richardrli Wrote: OK so we’ve all seen the big specimens from the Pantanal, but let’s not forget the small specimens as well considering they’re also a part of the population. My question then naturally is how often are the males there are actually under 100kg? And what is a small size range for females? These large jaguars you saw there just proves my point from my post above even more, they're large animals indeed and nobody can deny that. I get Paulo's experience on wild jaguars as well as visually sizing up the jaguars and knowing who might be larger than the other but thats not 100% accurately enough on the topic here, only the real captures and weighing them will seal the deal which Panthera could provide us. Panthera is there for research but they're the ones who captures and verify the animals in that region ( and Central Pantanal ) and we get to see how large they really are which is the focus of the topic here. And its great to know there are a few males much larger than 130 kg Adriano and I personally believe there are much more males much larger than Adriano throughout the whole Pantanal wetlands and not to mention the other massive male larger than Adriano I posted in the size comparison the other day one next to the other, he could be in the 140's kg easily. And also don't forget the Central Pantanal jaguars but after what I was told that the pantanal jaguars from the 3 areas North/Central/South are the same sizewise with only different variety of preys I am not that separating sizes differences from the 3 areas as much as I used to anymore, only in case to say where the individual is from, I am saying more Pantanal in general. About the males getting kick out they will and this male bellow I already posted a while ago in the jaguars thread he happened to show up in the Cárceres area in the entrance of Pantanal probably got kicked out of the central competitive area and could be gaining confidence. Many of these local residents have never seen a wild jaguar around there before. Do you know if Paulo and Paul got more videos of wild jaguars interactions like the fight of Juru and Balam ( most likey recorded by one of them )?? living there they must have a few of these sort of videos. And to wrap up yes that 100 kg pantanal male average is already buried. This 100 kg average is more leaning towards the Cerrado male jaguars nowadays. Can't wait to get to know more individuals, still trying to figure out Rogério size and keep in mind that Leandro let slide Rogério is in the 100's kg range in one video about Tiago cerrado male.
Since we're discussing sizes, what do you guys make of these controversial weights quoted in the scientific literature for jaguars hunted in los Llanos?
 *This image is copyright of its original author The reports come from second-hand sources, but if they are accurate, my thoughts are that the 180 kg specimen was probably full-bellied, but even then, if we were to remove 12 kg of weight, we're still left with a 168 kg animal, which I don't think it's entirely impossible for historic Llanos specimens. Los Llanos had for centuries hundreds of years thousands of feral cattle with no control living in the area before they were recaptured in mass in the 1800s from the 1400s, there's at least 4 centuries where jaguars had an unlimited amount of cattle supply and it wouldn't surprise if some of them reached the prehistoric sizes that we have spoken about before due to the large biomass of prey available. (08-09-2020, 05:59 PM)Balam Wrote: Since we're discussing sizes, what do you guys make of these controversial weights quoted in the scientific literature for jaguars hunted in los Llanos? I think the 159 kg male could be possibly real because of 3 things, first the Los Llanos ( in perfect conditions ) got massive jaguars which rivals Pantanal jaguar, the second reason is that giving that one EMPTY Pantanal male jaguar named Lopez weighed 148 kg, and third counting that Shaka empty weighed 118 kg and full bellied weighed 131.4 kg.... There are very good possibilities of the 159 kg male being real. about the 180 kg male ...... they're gonna need to give me more proof than that 
(08-09-2020, 06:11 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(08-09-2020, 05:59 PM)Balam Wrote: Since we're discussing sizes, what do you guys make of these controversial weights quoted in the scientific literature for jaguars hunted in los Llanos? The 159 kg weight is very plausible for me since Siemel's heaviest jaguar weighed 158 kg in the Pantanal, thus leading me to believe that the all-time heaviest jaguars are at around or surpassing 160 kg in weight, a 168 kg jaguar would fit in that range but it would definitely be an outlier. I doubt we'll ever get clarification on these weights since they're so old. Maybe if I can get in touch with Hoogesteijn again I could ask for clarification. |
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