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Male tiger ustaad T-24 killed forest gaurd in Ranthambore

United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-18-2015, 10:52 PM by Pckts )

Save the Tiger Yesterday ·     In an act which tiger experts termed as 'capital punishment without a fair trial', the Rajasthan forest authorities on Saturday sent the Ranthambore tiger T-24 to Sajjangarh Biological Park in the outskirts of Udaipur, around 400 km away from his territory.

The move prompted a protest rally by tiger lovers and experts, who called it a black day in the history of wildlife, in Jaipur on Saturday evening.

The move is a U-turn from stand maintained by the government till Friday, when Minister of State for Forests Raj Kumar Rinwa said T-24 would not be shifted to a zoo or park till a committee of experts submitted a report on the matter. Rinwa had told that the committee would be set up after Chief Minister Vasundhara Raje, who was in New Delhi, returned to the state.

However, Rinwa was not taken into confidence before shifting T-24, also known as Ustaad. The minister did not take telephone calls on Saturday.

Ustaad was shifted to Sajjangarh by road after being tranquilised. Ranthambore Tiger Reserve's field director Y.K. Sahu told the media that the wild cat was shifted on the basis of a report suggesting the same.

However, tiger expert Dhirendra Godha called the report as "bogus" as it was prepared by reserve's officers under pressure from the tourism lobby.

Rajasthan's former principal chief conservator of forests R.N. Mehrotra alleged that Ustaad would be kept in a cage in Sajjangarh without following the standard operating procedure as suggested by the National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA).

"The park was made out of a zoo during my tenure," Mehrotra recalled. According to the NTCA, a big cat could be shifted to a zoo only after a detailed inquiry by a committee of well-known experts, as Rinwa had suggested. "No such detailed inquiry was conducted," Mehrotra asserted.

T-24's fate was uncertain after it killed forest guard Rampal Saini on May 8.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/tiger...38529.html


*This image is copyright of its original author

 

 
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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Those pictures of Ustad where just sad...
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India sanjay Offline
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Main influence was from Self claimed tiger expert Aditya Singh(Dicky) and Sanctuary Asia Owner Bittu Sehagal.
Aditya Singh who convince forest officers and wrongly prove that T-24 ustaad is man eater. Aditya Singh was considered very reputed person in this field but now many wildlife is against him
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United States Roflcopters Offline
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It breaks my heart to see Ustaad in the tiny enclosure but theres no way, he's ever going back to the wild. people that want him out in the wild are being arrogant. if he has killed in the past, he will kill again and thats the bottom line. I researched everything leading up to this point and it would seem that humans are 99.9% at fault for this, blame also goes to Park officials for not enforcing proper rules. Hundreds of people risk their lives to go the temples within T24's territory. that's clearly tresspassing his territory and tigers are very territorial animals. Given the circumstances. If similar things were to happen in Kanha, Bandhavgarh etc etc. Im sure the tigers down there wouldve reacted the same way. Its unfortunate that T24 paid a heavy price for killing someone in his home turf. This time however, it was a human again and although i side with T24. On a professional level, a tiger that has killed 4 humans in the past. Can and will possibly kill again. This is probably better than him being put down and labelled another man eater. I dont think T24 would ever classify as one, he is a man killer that killed people in his home turf but theres no actual proof of him acquiring the taste of human flesh. Nor did he ever eat any of his victims. This is a terrible loss for all the real tiger lovers. T24 legacy will carry on with Sultan's blood line and Sultan is probably the boldest youngster out there.
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India sanjay Offline
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His 10 month old cubs are in danger also, Chances are new male will kill them. One thing, T-24 was not 100% confirmed killer of forest guard, at the same time Sultan was seen in that area
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( This post was last modified: 05-19-2015, 10:02 PM by Pckts )

(05-19-2015, 09:03 AM)'Roflcopters' Wrote: It breaks my heart to see Ustaad in the tiny enclosure but theres no way, he's ever going back to the wild. people that want him out in the wild are being arrogant. if he has killed in the past, he will kill again and thats the bottom line. I researched everything leading up to this point and it would seem that humans are 99.9% at fault for this, blame also goes to Park officials for not enforcing proper rules. Hundreds of people risk their lives to go the temples within T24's territory. that's clearly tresspassing his territory and tigers are very territorial animals. Given the circumstances. If similar things were to happen in Kanha, Bandhavgarh etc etc. Im sure the tigers down there wouldve reacted the same way. Its unfortunate that T24 paid a heavy price for killing someone in his home turf. This time however, it was a human again and although i side with T24. On a professional level, a tiger that has killed 4 humans in the past. Can and will possibly kill again. This is probably better than him being put down and labelled another man eater. I dont think T24 would ever classify as one, he is a man killer that killed people in his home turf but theres no actual proof of him acquiring the taste of human flesh. Nor did he ever eat any of his victims. This is a terrible loss for all the real tiger lovers. T24 legacy will carry on with Sultan's blood line and Sultan is probably the boldest youngster out there.

 
Everything you have written is correct, but here is where I have the problem.
No doubt he will kill again, but so what?
He is a wild animal and killing is part of his life,  the fact that humans think of themselves as a separate entity than any other animal is the problem. He kills a Cow, no problem, he kills a human in the same territory, problem!??
That is not how to protect these animals, conservation means allowing them to live in peace and helping them gain new territory, all this is doing is setting a precedent that if a tiger or any wild animal kills a human  being they are removed. A few days after this incident, a female tiger with cubs attacked another forest guard, are we to remove her as well?
If human beings truly care about both humans and animals then they will stop allowing the over crowding of these small reserves, tourism is growing, the hotel lobbyist are responsible for getting im removed so let them be responsible for financing more land to these reserves. Give these tigers much more space, give them a reason to stay away from human beings, don't put collars on them to let VIPs know where they are (not saying that is all they are used for), don't put heavily used roads directly through their territory and certainly don't think of yourself better than them, or like your life is worth more. Tigers are not humans, they don't have a "bill of rights" they don't have a "declaration of independence" they don't live by "man made laws" they live by one law. Survival of the fittest, if we are going to trespass in their territory we must respect that law. If we simply want to say that we do but still remove them when they don't behave how we want, we may as well go back to hunting them till extinction.

Sorry for the long write up, but after seeing the immense support he is receiving and seeing the lobbyist control political moves, I can't help but feel that Indian wildlife conservation is going the way of American Politics.
The rich makes the rules and the poor suffer and in this case, the poor is the Tiger.
Just my 2 cents...


 
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India sanjay Offline
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One of the biggest disappointing news related to this incident, Valmik thapar wants t-24 in captivity he said T-24 is dangerous tiger and he should have been removed earlier
source : http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news...48609.aspx
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United States Pckts Offline
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(05-19-2015, 10:22 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: One of the biggest disappointing news related to this incident, Valmik thapar wants t-24 in captivity he said T-24 is dangerous tiger and he should have been removed earlier
source : http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news...48609.aspx

 
Yes, that was very disturbing to read. It seems that he has lost a lot of support from it and the people are saying that its influenced via financial benefits. I definitely didn't agree with his opinion, not that I don't respect his knowledge but I certainly don't support his stance.


 
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United States Roflcopters Offline
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(05-19-2015, 10:02 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(05-19-2015, 09:03 AM)'Roflcopters' Wrote: It breaks my heart to see Ustaad in the tiny enclosure but theres no way, he's ever going back to the wild. people that want him out in the wild are being arrogant. if he has killed in the past, he will kill again and thats the bottom line. I researched everything leading up to this point and it would seem that humans are 99.9% at fault for this, blame also goes to Park officials for not enforcing proper rules. Hundreds of people risk their lives to go the temples within T24's territory. that's clearly tresspassing his territory and tigers are very territorial animals. Given the circumstances. If similar things were to happen in Kanha, Bandhavgarh etc etc. Im sure the tigers down there wouldve reacted the same way. Its unfortunate that T24 paid a heavy price for killing someone in his home turf. This time however, it was a human again and although i side with T24. On a professional level, a tiger that has killed 4 humans in the past. Can and will possibly kill again. This is probably better than him being put down and labelled another man eater. I dont think T24 would ever classify as one, he is a man killer that killed people in his home turf but theres no actual proof of him acquiring the taste of human flesh. Nor did he ever eat any of his victims. This is a terrible loss for all the real tiger lovers. T24 legacy will carry on with Sultan's blood line and Sultan is probably the boldest youngster out there.

 
Everything you have written is correct, but here is where I have the problem.
No doubt he will kill again, but so what?
He is a wild animal and killing is part of his life,  the fact that humans think of themselves as a separate entity than any other animal is the problem. He kills a Cow, no problem, he kills a human in the same territory, problem!??
That is not how to protect these animals, conservation means allowing them to live in peace and helping them gain new territory, all this is doing is setting a precedent that if a tiger or any wild animal kills a human  being they are removed. A few days after this incident, a female tiger with cubs attacked another forest guard, are we to remove her as well?
If human beings truly care about both humans and animals then they will stop allowing the over crowding of these small reserves, tourism is growing, the hotel lobbyist are responsible for getting im removed so let them be responsible for financing more land to these reserves. Give these tigers much more space, give them a reason to stay away from human beings, don't put collars on them to let VIPs know where they are (not saying that is all they are used for), don't put heavily used roads directly through their territory and certainly don't think of yourself better than them, or like your life is worth more. Tigers are not humans, they don't have a "bill of rights" they don't have a "declaration of independence" they don't live by "man made laws" they live by one law. Survival of the fittest, if we are going to trespass in their territory we must respect that law. If we simply want to say that we do but still remove them when they don't behave how we want, we may as well go back to hunting them till extinction.

Sorry for the long write up, but after seeing the immense support he is receiving and seeing the lobbyist control political moves, I can't help but feel that Indian wildlife conservation is going the way of American Politics.
The rich makes the rules and the poor suffer and in this case, the poor is the Tiger.
Just my 2 cents...


 


I respect your opinion Pckts but I dont think rules are going to be strictly enforced anytime soon and it would be another disaster waiting to happen. I just think that you look at most of these things from a photographic community point of view, put their trash articles and expert bashing aside and face the truth. T24 cannot roam back in his territory, maybe they shouldve tried relocating him to one of the empty parks like Melghat or even Umred and he wouldve easily resumed his life. Its unfortunate but i do understand Mr.Valmik Thappar. Im not sentimental like others, also remember. Most people holding the *Free T24* are the same people that harassed him in their overcrowded jeeps, they think scientific radiocollaring is a mere joke. Writing crap articles about Gabbar losing because of his radio-collar. Thats bullshit. saturn aka namdev, gabbar aka leopard face and katezari aka tyson have been rivals for ages and you dont always come out on top. Thats how i see it. I stopped reading biased articles like that and im in full support of the tiger experts that are against the idea of T24 roaming in his turf. He killed a human, he will be punished and thats the end of it to me.
 
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-20-2015, 12:19 AM by Pckts )

Respectifully disagree @Roflcopters
I just refuse to take the side of Human beings over Any animal. 8 billion people in the world and at the expense of almost all wild animals, its just a sad day.
And while some people may be the same who use over crowded jeeps, far more are not. If you actually read the people protesting, they are the ones who are calling out the people who misuse the rules, People like Anjan, Kanwar, Aditya Singh (Co-owner at Bagh Safari), Spots and Stripes Conservation etc.
These people are all against the over crowding and BS that we put these tigers through.

As you can see....

*This image is copyright of its original author

Aditya Singh Follow · May 15 · Edited ·    
"A close encounter with Ustaad. We blocked his way in a narrow road deliberately. We wanted him to cross the jeep from the back, where we were looking to photograph...."
If this is what "tiger lovers" who claim to be very aware about environmental issues behave...............than what more can I say frown emoticon I wonder who all were part of the same group.
#Saveustad #SaveUstaad #SaveT24 #Savethetiger #SaveRTR



And if you read that Post you will see the multiple photographers who called him out and also showed is BS tactics to the correct authorities.

Gabbar certainly doesn't win or loose because of his collar, but even he became more shy with people afterwards, but this isn't about collaring.
 

 
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-20-2015, 01:58 AM by Pckts )

Here is a great article showing how truly divided people are, whether its the forest minister completely kept in the dark and how most were actually...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/...335064.cms


It has really turned into a political debate, if there is one thing to take away from this, its the fact that a move like this has caused such an uproar. This can only be a good thing in the long run I think, hopefully it turns out to create more space for these animals since politicians now see the impact financially and ecologically it has on the country.
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United States Pckts Offline
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I like this image and quote, it reminded me of the Ustad Situation.

*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States Roflcopters Offline
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the facebook groups were just horrible to witness, the so called macho wannabe photographers mocking the experts and other big names like Bittu Sahgal ji, Aditya Singh ji etc etc for not being sentimental and going ahead with the idea of a killer tiger to be put in a cage for the rest of his life. This situation is quiet similar to the times when Dr.Raghu Chundawat was wrongly labelled as the culprit behind the murders of Panna tigers, he was there to help. Despite the pressure from top corrupt officials and crime syndicates of poachers sending him death threats. If Dr.Valmik Thappar is reading this, I respect your courage to speak out. Personally when T24 claimed his 3rd victim in 2013, I knew in my head that it was going to happen and it certainly did. Now question for the fools, why should T24 be allowed to roam free in the jungle? Hes taken too many lives, sure 99.9% of the fault is human error..as it is often the case but the thing is. He is highly unpredictable and risking him around tourists would only make the situation worse. Its best to let go of your love and emotions and take this matter profesionally. lets remember T24 as one of the finest specimens of Ranthambore and let this go and im sure the family members that lost their loved ones to T24 would want the same for others. T24 is far too dangerous and unpredictable to be out there. The End.
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United States Roflcopters Offline
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Big Grin 

Also, are you aware that majority of these fanatics were going ahead with the idea of labelling T72 aka sultan (T24's son) as the man eater, just to try and save T24. If thats not fanaticism and stupidity then i guess im a moron. T72 is not yet a resident male, hes young and was allowed by his father T24 to live along side him, they had a few skirmishes but nothing serious. Infact, T72 was never a match for T24. It was only the son-father relationship that kept T72 alive and secured him one of the finest spots in Ranthambore. T24 just like T25 was a great father and will always be one of my favorite tigers but i know where to draw the line over here. May his legacy carry on in the name, shape, dominance of Sultan.
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India sanjay Offline
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Rofl, Not all photographer but some very good wildlife expert is also against the captivity of t-24. So don't give excuse of wildlife experts support. Clearly majority is against Captivity and it includes some experts as well. This is not matter of sentimental thinking but many other people who are against captivity of t-24 are wise and thinking from mind.
The way t-24 was shift is pure influence of people who drive tourism in RTR.
Sariska one of the most popular place where tiger roamed is now have no or few tiger left. Sariska has potential of becoming one of the major tourist place in india, because it is more closer to New Delhi. The official of Sariska asked for some tiger from RTR but they refuse fearing that they will loose part of wildlife tourist.
RTR has more than 60 tigers and total area is not enough to hold all these but the greedy official of RTR and these hotel lobby owners (Aditya singh) play major role in such decision.
Bittu Shegal is pure business person and Aditya Singh is photographer cum tour operator and hotel owner.
We are not saying T-72 sultan is man eater but it clearly show T-24 was not seen by any eye witness. One more thing stop criticizing all photographer off-course they are less qualified than wildlife experts but better than us.
Anyway, on 28-may-2015 there is hearing in delhi High court, Lets prey t-24 come clean
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