There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Through out my observing, reading newsletter and other members information here. I am thinking that Male felidae like Tiger, Lion etc become more dominant , aggressive and gain muscle and weight when they become father first time. This is because they can protect their cubs, female and Territory.
According to JV - His male tiger Sariska who struggle to establish territory, dominated by other males and was smaller in size. But what interesting happened is when he was able to mate with a female and the female produces litters he became more aggressive. Male tigers that previously had dominated him, were now attacked when they came near his territory. Sariska bulked up and put on weight, giving him the edge when fighting other male tigers.
I have also observed to some extent in thread of Rofls, About father Male Tiger.
However, I am just putting my views here no any backup of data except the above JV's newsletter.
But this certainly open a debate on this behavior of animals and kind of interesting.
11-26-2014, 11:59 PM( This post was last modified: 11-26-2014, 11:59 PM by Pckts )
No clue, I guess it would come down to testosterone production.
During what time of the year and what age is it at its highest per species. I think a lot of research would have to be done on the topic and almost 0 exists that is useful up to this point. Nice thread idea though.
a great example of this is Gabbar/Leopard face, he went from being an underdog to being one of the most ruthless males in Tadoba. Fighting anyone and anything that ever came his way and that probably has something to do with him being a father. Male Tigers are very territorial animals by nature and even more, with a litter of cub to raise. Tigresses are impressive in their own rights but the magnitude of violence that male tigers are capable of is unparallel to anything observed before. that's just my two cents, even Shivaji. despite his aggressive nature, he was a good husband and a father. there's plenty of males i can list but the thing is, we are not officially documenting this behavior ! even the myth of male tigers being anti-social is just a myth and has been refuted in the recent times. Male Tigers are equally involved with raising cubs.
I agree with Rofl, This is myth that tiger are anti social or may be tiger are becoming social with time ? who knows.
But this is clear now, there are some relation of becoming dominant, aggressive and gaining weight after being a father. And I think it is also with Lion, leopard, jaguar etc.
What's the average age when males become first time fathers? Maybe we could correlate that with growth, as it seems tigers grow well into the seventh year of life. It would make sense that a male would gain size and reach his peak around the time he's most successful at carving out his own legacy, and thus it might look like fatherhood caused a size increase, but rather the two are simultaneously connected.
11-30-2014, 06:21 PM( This post was last modified: 11-30-2014, 07:26 PM by sanjay )
Yes, It can not be said confidently, because its only speculation and there is no evidence, even no one has paid attention on this behavior I guess, or if they have, then there is no research.
I think males gain maximum body size with in 4-5 year, after that, may be 8-9 year of age, they gain confidence, maturity and experience to face the challenges successfully.
It's similar to the age old question of what came first the chicken or the egg? But this one seems to be easier to figure out... I think.
Did these large males peak in testosterone production accompanied by weight gain that allowed them to become dominant and thereby able to mate?
Or, did they happen to mate, and suddenly from fatherhood occurring later... have their testosterone levels spike accompanied by weight gain for protection purposes and then they became dominant?
I could be wrong, but I think the first explanation is more plausible.
Your point is valid, seigfried, And this is natural process.
In my first post, I gave example of JV's Sariska male tiger. Due to more bigger and aggressive male, Sariska (brother of Tiger corbett who attacked and almost killed JV) never able to claim his territory, According to JV, Sariska was dominated by his brother and sister. When he grew up he was chased and dominated by other males. Infact JV thought he could never make his territory and will able to mate.
But fortunately, Tiboo the white tigress choose him over 2 other resident big male 'Big Boy' and 'Sundaban' because one was vasectomised and other was Cryptorchidism (The testicles are inside the body of the male tiger, causing the temperature of the sperm to be too high and therefore not viable).
After having cubs from Tiboo, Sariska became aggressive and gain weight. He enlarged his territory and captured a part of 'Big Boy' territory.
So point is responsibility made tiger Sariska dominant, aggressive and increase weight .
This is just one example and it does not proves anything, may be it is exception or just a co-incidence, but if it happens in deep forest without human witnesses, than its really interesting behavior and should be analyze more
11-30-2014, 10:12 PM( This post was last modified: 11-30-2014, 10:12 PM by Pckts )
For lions at least, there is a direct correalation to age, body length and shoulder height.
Lions 7-10 were generally taller than lions 3-6. Not much but still taller, so that may be the only real answer. While father hood may increase the fire to protect their family and aggression towards intruders it still doesn't stop intruders from defeating fathers with cubs of either species.
So who knows for sure.
Male felidae gain weight and power when they become father ?
