Lions of Timbavati

[afortich]

(03-21-2024, 05:13 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @afortich Criollo said here that Shaka split them and Scar caught Guernsey while they were separated.

Willdfreelions saya the same thing but with the difference that he claims Shaka was the one to catch Guernsey before his brother arrived to finish the job.

In both versions Avoca was there. The problem was that, like others said, he wasn't ready to risk such a 2v2 fight.

Ok, I didn't know that part when I posted the first time. Thanks! 
So it looks like that Avoca YM and Guernsey were being chased, got split and by the time Avoca YM returned but at a distance noticed that Guernsey was already caught and getting a beating from both Mbiris.
If my understanding is incorrect, please correct me. The only sources I have to follow lions is YouTube and this forum. Reply

[Mwk85]

Younger members of the Shish Pride greeting their fathers, the Trichardt males.

Reply

[T_Ferguson]

(03-21-2024, 05:44 AM)afortich Wrote:

(03-21-2024, 05:13 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @afortich Criollo said here that Shaka split them and Scar caught Guernsey while they were separated.

Willdfreelions saya the same thing but with the difference that he claims Shaka was the one to catch Guernsey before his brother arrived to finish the job.

In both versions Avoca was there. The problem was that, like others said, he wasn't ready to risk such a 2v2 fight.

Ok, I didn't know that part. 
So it looks like that Avoca YM and Guernsey were being chased, got split and by the time Avoca YM returned, Guernsey was already caught and getting a beating from both Mbiris. Is my understanding correct??

IT all sucks.  Where does Young Avoca go now?  I do still think this is a result of them just getting a little too bold, and likely on Guernsey's testosterone. Reply

[BA0701]

(03-21-2024, 02:03 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(03-21-2024, 01:48 AM)Mapokser Wrote: As for the nomadic males looking for the weakest coalition, I don't think what happened here proves this notion wrong.

Guernsey and Avoca were avoiding Mbiris until Shaka got injured and Scar too when Ngala reported that the Mbiris were going east into Kruger and returning with new injuries.

Guernsey and Avoca took the opportunity to push against Mbiris and attack their pride. They felt Mbiris were weak at that point.

But they probably didn't realize that the Mbiris were back to good shape, and pushed too far.

Still, big factor why they "chose" this area where few "Mbiri" females who where available for mating.

As where in Nhenha/NK case, where they go against prob strongest duo in area in PCMs.

Aswell as in Othawa Male case.

I dont think males think too much who are their opponents when theres females in estrus around.

As in Kambulas case, they where in the north and pushing for BDMs area when 3 NK females where in estrus, since that, they are not that much interested in that area looks like as they returned back to roaming larger area.

In majority of takeovers (not always), starting points are often females in estrus.

Similar to the Vurhami males, as they got taken down one by one by the wrecking crew, Mjejane Males. When they killed the youngest, and the second to last before Moe, initially Moe wanted to stand and fight when the Mjejanes approached, he was full of testosterone from mating with the Mjejane female. When he realized his brother was fleeing, Moe decided to do the same, but his brother was already injured, so they caught him, and Moe managed to escape. I don't recall anyone saying negative things about Moe in that situation, to be honest I'm glad that Moe came to his senses and took off, if he'd have stayed they both would have likely fallen that day, they were never going to beat those Mjejane boys.

I agree with @criollo2mil , it is ridiculous for people to criticize AYM, even if he was nearby, the only thing that would have happened if he tried to intervene, is we'd likely be discussing two dead lions instead of one. Just like the Addo Boys as you mentioned. Mbiris have always been known as a pair of lions not to be messed with, I was really concerned for the Ross Males when they first settled in with the Birmingham Pride, and the Ross Males are a much stronger and experienced duo that the Guernsey - AYM pair. Only current pair of lions that I see matching the Mbiris in size and strength is the PCM, and yet the experience still goes to Mbiris, in a huge way. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

Avoca boy was too young to fight dominate males if he is indeed just 4 years old. I would just like to know how it started as in a video breaks my heart to see a male lion like that again. And no was the reason all of his brothers died of these the 4 at the beginning he was unwilling to leave and his brothers got picked off one my one as they followed him and stayed with him Unfortunately Reply

[criollo2mil]

(03-21-2024, 12:25 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: So unless conditions of ageing Ross males (although not sure if they had any clashes with them)

Ziggy witnessed a standoff between them about two to three weeks ago.

No direct fight but it did lead to the Ross holding their ground. G/A moved further north.

But signs were there that they were going to pressure them. Reply

[Mapokser]

I thought it was rare that guides released those 2 videos of Mbiri and Guernsey, but there was an unbelievable level of whining everywhere with people asking not to share such videos.

Due to that I doubt they'll release any more footage.

Which is ironic, when they don't release anything people attack them saying they were the ones to kill the lion ( see Nhenha case ), and when they do share, they complain about already knowing how the lion died and they are just posting "cruelty" for the sake of it. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

I mean whoever thought nhenha was killed by anything else it’s just a strange person respectfully and if you watch a video of a lion that is already dead being eaten and dragged around I’m pretty sure even the guides will turn away but it’s is nature we don’t have to time it because it’s nothing any of us can do but it was very hard to watch I don’t think anyone could just sit and watch either video but I appreciate them showing the videos Reply

[Mapokser]

@Ttimemarti Avoca was at least 4,5, that'd be my guess because he was already bigger than Guernsey many months ago.

As Criollo said, they had a standoff with the Ross males which apparently ended in a stalemate.

But it shows how extraordinary the Mbiris are since they had defeated prime dominant males 2v2 when they were only 3,5yo.

@BA0701 Yeah in the Greater Kruger I'd think the PCM are the closest duo to the Mbiri in strength. Though further east into Kruger there's also the remaining Mjejane males Toya and Pretty Boy, 2 very powerful beasts. Reply

[T_Ferguson]

(03-21-2024, 09:56 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I thought it was rare that guides released those 2 videos of Mbiri and Guernsey, but there was an unbelievable level of whining everywhere with people asking not to share such videos.

Due to that I doubt they'll release any more footage.

Which is ironic, when they don't release anything people attack them saying they were the ones to kill the lion ( see Nhenha case ), and when they do share, they complain about already knowing how the lion died and they are just posting "cruelty" for the sake of it.

Welcome to the new world of idiocracy.  Damned if you do or don't.  UP is Down, and chaos is rule. Reply

[Liner]

Agree that the guides can`t win. I watched that video of Bob Jr getting mauled and killed and it was rough. 
The bottom line is there is no quick easy death for lions that get outnumbered. Although I do recall reading that Olope was suffocated by Olobor and Oloshipa and not mauled to death. Olope was a beast and I can`t imagine what kind of force was used against him to do that. 
Those Mbiri brothers are huge, primitive looking savages for sure. Reply

[criollo2mil]

(03-21-2024, 10:04 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Ttimemarti Avoca was at least 4,5, that'd be my guess because he was already bigger than Guernsey many months ago.

As Criollo said, they had a standoff with the Ross males which apparently ended in a stalemate.

But it shows how extraordinary the Mbiris are since they had defeated prime dominant males 2v2 when they were only 3,5yo.

@BA0701 Yeah in the Greater Kruger I'd think the PCM are the closest duo to the Mbiri in strength. Though further east into Kruger there's also the remaining Mjejane males Toya and Pretty Boy, 2 very powerful beasts.

Ok, with all the talks regarding Avoca YM’s age, I went into my old files to find my oldest photos of him.    

In Jan 2020, he looks to be appx 6-7months?

Adding in June 2021 photo for further reference.

I would estimate his born date around May-June 2019? Reply

Attached Files

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[Duco Ndona]

Sadly there are a lot of people that get far to attached to these animals and build them up to crazy levels. When the lion kills its amazing footage, but once the tables turn... they linked their own identity to them, so they collapse aswell.

Nenha was especially bad. It took months before the constant conspiracies died down and people accepted that he wasnt going to return to take over Sabi Sands or something. Reply

[Mapokser]

He looks pretty big in the first photo, huge head.

Here the youngest Mangheni cub seen yesterday, 7 months old. Doesn't look as big as the Avoca despite his parents being huge:

*This image is copyright of its original author

I think Avoca may be 5yo already. Reply

[criollo2mil]

(03-21-2024, 11:52 PM)Mapokser Wrote: He looks pretty big in the first photo, huge head.

Here the youngest Mangheni cub seen yesterday, 7 months old. Doesn't look as big as the Avoca despite his parents being huge:

*This image is copyright of its original author

I think Avoca may have been 5yo already.

I’m not very good at aging lions.  Lol.   It’s why I always ask.    I know some develop faster than others (Nkuhuma Breakaway / Tumbela Son Cone to mind we’re huge at young stages) Reply