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Lions of Timbavati

United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-04-2016, 10:43 PM by Pckts )

https://www.facebook.com/Lions-of-the-Timbavati-317173391716244/?fref=nf

Lions of the Timbavati

Page Liked · December 7, 2015 ·

 


I'm going to start posting lion updates from the Manyeleti as well. I'm not going to change the pages name though. Quite a few lions in the Manyeleti are from the Timbavati. Skorro male lion, Mbiri pride(Skybed pride), Matimba males and the Birmingham breakaway prides. I will only post lion updates from the Timbavati and the Manyeleti. The Timbavati is not that far from the Manyeleti. A nice photo of the youngest Giraffe male. Photo taken by Johan Adolf Smalman at Shindzela.

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Matimba Male
Not pretty but certainly nearing the end of his dominance. The next few years are not going to be easy for this male lion.

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Here's a photo of some of the Giraffe males with the 3 Avoca males. Taken by Brad Marais at Makanyi Lodge. I've seen quite a few comments regarding the 5 Giraffe males and the 3 Avoca males. I'll give you some information on them and I will tell you why they've 'joined up'. The Giraffe males are a coalition of 5 males and they are between 4-6 years old. The 3 Avoca males are between 5-8 years old. The Avoca pride is a breakaway pride from the Giraffe pride and that means the Avoca males and the Giraffe males are related to each other. The 3 Avoca males came from the Avoca pride and the Giraffe males came from the Giraffe pride. They have been seen together numerous of times. Both coalitions were fathered by the 3 old Ross males. It will be interesting to see what happens. Will they move as a coalition of 8 males?

*This image is copyright of its original author



Some great sightings yesterday and this morning with a very relaxed African wild cat in broad daylight. The hyena den was very active with 8 youngsters playing outside and to top it off last night the old Ross male getting active in the north. This morning elephants all over Timbavati and some plains game having a drink.

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Shindzela Safari Camp
The new Avoca cubs. Fathered by the Giraffe males or the Avoca males.


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Yesterday we had cleo female leopard resting in a marula tree on scott 2. A few dagga boys resting about and a herd of elephants moving past the lodge. The 2 Ross break away females moving west on our entrance road. marula female leopard resting in a tree in the north. a herd of 50 elephants crossing the road in front of us.

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The 3 Trilogy males resting at twins dam. A very big mamba in a tree. Female cheetah drinking water at Kambaku dam. 6 lions we do not know 2 females with 4 cubs +- 10 month old

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Kambaku Safari Lodge

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One of the Hercules Pride females is a monster lioness. Her size is seriously impressive, and if she had a mane, she could pass as a male! In addition to this, she and her sister, plus 4 subadult cubs, have aggressive attitudes that stem from a life of solitude. Their territory is deep inside the neighbouring property where very little vehicle activity is permitted, so they are not nearly as habituated as the Ross Breakaway lionesses.

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and the much debated estimated or weighed 280kg lion?

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or

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'

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Note that this isn't to start another debate, simply put, he is one of the more infamous lions and especially from Timbavati so I figured he'd deserve a little screen time as well.
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United States Polar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-04-2016, 05:52 AM by Polar )

The alleged 280 kg lion does not even look close to 280 kg, he looks more like 190-220 kg. Again most likely an overestimation as a result of being intrigued by a normal big cat's size for the first time, or not adjusted for stomach content. Think about it, a 280 kg lion would not have the stomach tuck pointing up, his stomach would instead distend downwards. His quarters should also be bigger as well. He looks to be only slightly larger than an average-sized lion.
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Argentina Tshokwane Offline
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Quote:he is one of the more infamous lions and especially from Timbavati so I figured he'd deserve a little screen time as well.

The lion in question was the Old Birmingham male, one of the fathers of the current Birmingham coalition. I wouldn't discount that weight mostly because other lions in that area have been weighed and the results have been 270 kg and 250 kg respectively, the latter being one of the last partners the Birmingham male had.
‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows…those that do not run are removed’
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United States Pckts Offline
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Do you have any verification for those weights?
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Argentina Tshokwane Offline
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Nothing in paper, no, although I asked about it. What I did found was a video where this is discussed.



I know they were indeed weighed, as they were collared, but what I'm not sure is if the weights mentioned are a mere estimation or the actual weight. Assuming it was only an estimation, it must not be very far from the actual weight, considering the males were weighed(that would be taking into consideration fails in the scale weight or food intake, as Guate did with Jai's weight). 

Unfortunately, I don't have something to prove the real weights, btu if I ever happen to find it, I'll post about it.

A couple of pics now about the males in question. This was the Old Birmingham male.

*This image is copyright of its original author

This is Mabande, he's still alive today.

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Here he was with Ximpoko

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And here is Mabande with the Birmingham male, after Ximpoko was poached. The article where I took this images from talked about how impressed the rangers were with the size of these males, particularly with the Birmingham male.

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‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows…those that do not run are removed’
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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The collared males are Ximpoko and Mabande and the 280 (250 kg) lion is Ximpoko he is enormous I've been told I've seen pictures I think right after he has been darted and walks away and thats not The lion darted in The picture with Cristina.. Ximpoko has been weighed! 
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This lion looks like Ximpoko
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-04-2016, 08:33 PM by Pckts )

A good way to get verification is to ask the vet on hand. Just because an animal is collared doesn't mean they were weighed. But if they were weighed like the tour guide states you'd have to ask the vet. To be honest I wouldn't accept a claimed weight of 250 or 270kg for any lion or tiger until verification was presented. Even if the 272kg is when the lion was gorged like he states.
Let me know what you find out.
Thanks

Also, that is the timbavati leopard project lion that was darted with Christina @Pantherinae
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United States Pckts Offline
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Timbavati's Location

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Is it safe to assume that Kruger and Timbavati lions are interchangeable?
Is timbavati land or water locked from other reserves or are they able to pass freely from one reserve to another?

Im just curious, is anything unusual in Timbavati that would contribute to allegedly larger lions than elsewhere?
At least the crater and delta have extraordinary characteristics that we can hypothesize contributing to larger lions even though we don't have weights to back yet.

I'm just asking because the weights I have seen from Kruger don't seem extraordinary compared to lions elsewhere.

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This is just a nat geo article so take it for what it's worth.
"Male lions in South Africa's Kruger National Park weigh an average of 435 pounds (197 kilograms). Females are slightly smaller, and usually weigh less than 300 pounds (136 kilograms). Cubs have spots, and the adults have a brown coat, ranging from light brown to dark ochre. The mane of the adult male varies from brown to black. In South Africa there is an occasional white lion, but these are not true albinos."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...hoto4.html
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Sri Lanka Apollo Offline
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Timbavati Private Nature Reserve is a 53 392 hectare nature reserve that was established in 1956. The reserve is an unfenced lush wildlife sanctuary orbited by the famous Sabi Sands and Kruger National Parks.

I think being a private reserve may be the cause for some exaggerated weights to attract more tourists.
Well everyone wants to see a 280 kg wild lion.
Its just my hypothesis, I could be wrong.
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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@Apollo,
how can a private reserve feed lions more than they can take from the wild by hunting?
make hunting for them easier by killing buffalos and have the meal ready for the lions?
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-05-2016, 12:45 AM by Pckts )

(02-05-2016, 12:16 AM)LionKiss Wrote: @Apollo,
how can a private reserve feed lions more than they can take from the wild by hunting?
make hunting for them easier by killing buffalos and have the meal ready for the lions?

He is saying that the reserve attracts visitors by saying "our lions are the largest" which is what the tour guide said, but you hear that from lots of places, India and Africa included. I'm numb to a photographer or guide saying this location or that location has the largest cats they have seen. The fact is, unless you have gone throughout africa and india, seen tons of cats from all areas, you can't say that. And even if you have, its so hard to tell the difference between a 200kg cat or a 250kg cat and so on that its purely speculation until you put them on a scale or you take down their measurements.

Remember, a wild lion goes through the struggles of being "wild"
prey migrates in and out, droughts and storms, etc. There is a reason why mortality rate in the wild is soo high for any big cat.
I don't think a private reserve offers easier "killing" but what it will do is offer protection to the cat and the prey the cat hunts, in turn, it allows these animals to still show their true capabilities. The struggle is making the corridors from reserve to reserve protected so that the bloodline doesn't get muddied and new individuals are allowed to set up territories elsewhere and disperse their genes.
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United States tigerluver Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-05-2016, 05:35 AM by tigerluver )

It seems there is no way to avoid the debate on the controversial specimen, so I might as well pitch in after researching the organization some.

Here is maybe why Almaro says the lion was actually weighed and why Christina says otherwise: Timbavati is a private game reserve. As in, this is a hunting resort. Here's one source. Here's Timbavati's reasoning.

Now connect that to what @Apollo has said. If you are a hunting resort, you better have big game. A race of giant lions is music to a hunter's ears and a wonderful source of income for a private (possibly for-profit considering rampant corruption in these areas) organization. Considering the current severity of the situation of the big 5, I've yet to see this hunting benefit anyone but these companies. Poaching is soaring and populations are suffering, thus Timbavati's reasoning falls apart. Hard to trust an organization of such sort.

I'm certain lions over 250 kg are out there. We have the Etosha specimen weighing in at 260 kg, for example. Perhaps Timbavati houses lions reaching 280 kg (a number not even hit by hunting records bar the 313 kg specimen), but under the aforementioned circumstances, this needs to be taken with a grain(s) of salt.
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United States Pckts Offline
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Makanyi Lodge

Like This Page · 8 hrs ·

 


Guests spent some time watching a coalition of 5 male lions quench their thirst before exploring the amazing Timbavati Landscape.

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Guatemala Shaudimela Offline
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Great information.

How many prides and coalitions are there in Tinbavati?

Are northern matimbas still dominating Manyeleti?
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-16-2016, 12:07 AM by Pckts )

Lions of the Timbavati shared a page.
21 hrs ·
Please give this page a like. The Giraffe males are a coalition of 5 males and they are between 4-6 years old. The 3 Avoca males are between 5-8 years old. The Avoca pride is a breakaway pride from the Giraffe pride and that means the Avoca males and the Giraffe males are related to each other. The 3 Avoca males came from the Avoca pride and the Giraffe males came from the Giraffe pride. They have been seen together numerous of times. Both coalitions were fathered by the 3 old Ross males. It will be interesting to see what happens. Will they move as a coalition of 8 males?

https://www.facebook.com/Avoca-Male-Lion...542385023/


Here's a photo of some of the Giraffe males with the 3 Avoca males. Taken by Brad Marais at Makanyi Lodge. I've seen quite a few comments regarding the 5 Giraffe Male Lions and the 3 Avoca males. I'll give you some information on them and I will tell you why they've 'joined up'. The Giraffe males are a coalition of 5 males and they are between 4-6 years old. The 3 Avoca males are between 6-8 years old. The Avoca pride is a breakaway pride from the Giraffe pride and that means the Avoca males and the Giraffe males are related to each other. The 3 Avoca males came from the Avoca pride and the Giraffe males came from the Giraffe pride. They have been seen together numerous of times. Both coalitions were fathered by the 3 old Ross males. It will be interesting to see what happens. Will they move as a coalition of 8 males?
https://www.facebook.com/Avoca-Male-Lion...542385023/

*This image is copyright of its original author
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