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Lions of Sabi Sands
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Erongji is small yes but he is no joke he is likely one of the males that gave blondie a beating leading to his death and now he and amahle together gave the bigger black dam male a beating… he is the scrapper or mr t of the group smallest most aggressive always willing and ready to fight not saying he is mr T or scrapper but those two where the smallest and most aggressive and that’s what erongji is besides have you seen him he looks terrifying most of the time lol
 (10-27-2023, 05:37 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 1/2 Ndhzenga is hardly "small", he is hella small, like legitimately one of the smallest lions ever seen. I wouldn't say size means nothing, but I'd agree that it usually doesn't mean much and it hardly is a problem for Ndhzengas. Yea, we totally saw him next to many male lions so we can make that conclusion, that he is "smallest male ever seen" lol.. (10-27-2023, 05:37 AM)Mapokser Wrote: And I didn't say BDM are weak because of Ndhzengas, I listed a lot of reasons for that, to put it simply, they were blessed with a good area, low competition, tons of opportunities and still couldn't accomplish anything, reason why I said they' re below average in strength. What you mean they didnt accomplish anything, they are territorial males for almost a year now. (10-27-2023, 05:37 AM)Mapokser Wrote: As for Ndhzengas being the strongest, that'd definitely surprise me if true. I never thought they were particularly strong due to running from 2 Bboys 2v4 ( as three 5yo males + one prime male ), and after that they never had the opportunity to show off much strength, though recently they have shown a lot, so yeah they are strong, but I still think PCM and Gijimas are the strongest and would put my money on them if they met Ndhzengas in Londolozi. When they where running from Bboys they where definetly not even close to 5. Never showcase their strenght? Not true. Yea, young males being chased in their nomadic days definetly shows how they will be strong as territorial males. Literally every coalitons was chased by territorial males in their younger days, that means nothing. Hey, even 2 Ndhzengas chased these 2 Gijimas, and now you are telling that Gijimas are stronger, but when Ndhzengas where chased as young males, for you thats sign of weakness? You contradict yourself. (10-27-2023, 05:37 AM)Mapokser Wrote: And as for females, lions don't usually get females for free, if every lion would wait for females to get back in estrus they'd almost never take any prides. Hunting down? NKs dont hang in their territory 24/7, they roam whole northern areas, hunting them down means entering neighbours territories. And if they do hunt them, NKs can easily just went full nomadic and leave the area, as they did once when they where seen in western sector when BDMs ousted Mohawk, so what, you suggest BDMs hunting them to western sector? Western sector is easier for that, as its fenced with 3 sides and area is fairly small, its basically choke point, and if pride doesnt want to go full nomadic and leave the area, they can be easily tracked and hunted down over time. (10-27-2023, 05:37 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Mohawk and sons are no threat now, but are still with the pride that it "should" be BDM's as they defeated Mohawk who's now nomadic, still they lack the strength and drive to properly oust Mohawk and take over the pride... Plus give it a few months and suddenly Mohawk + sons won't be "non-factors" anymore. Again, Mohawk, sons and NKs dont only hang in BDMs territory, in fact they are avoiding that area as much as possible. In the end, its more to it then "why they just dont track and hunt the pride down" or "oust Mohawk and sons completley from the area". If females are determined to protect subs, they cant get tracked and hunted down that easily if they have space to run, same for nomadic males. Bigger coalition obviously has better chance of doing this stuff. Syxs with subs where avoiding Gijimas in the same manner for a year, until 2 adults recently came back to estrus, Gijimas couldnt track and hunt them neither, its not that simple. Gijimas basically had same scenario as BDMs, they where with ony 1 adult and 2 sub females for over a year, and i dont see anyone arguing about that as sign of weakness. 
First ever glimpses of the elder Ximunghwe (presumably) solo cub. Diff said it’s a boy which isn’t ideal since she really doesn’t have many tries left at leaving girls to carry on the Ximunghwe bloodline with the Pride.
Credit: Diff Marimane  (10-27-2023, 06:03 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: First ever glimpses of the elder Ximunghwe (presumably) solo cub. Diff said it’s a boy which isn’t ideal since she really doesn’t have many tries left at leaving girls to carry on the Ximunghwe bloodline with the Pride. Agreed, and this little guy will take her out of the running for at least the next 18-24 months. Remember when most of us thought her last daughter was a male, during her early months? We never got a good pic from the back angle, and she had a lot of fluff around her neck. Not questioning Diff, just reminded me of that situation, involving the same lioness.  (10-27-2023, 06:03 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: First ever glimpses of the elder Ximunghwe (presumably) solo cub. Diff said it’s a boy which isn’t ideal since she really doesn’t have many tries left at leaving girls to carry on the Ximunghwe bloodline with the Pride. Cute little guy. Hopefully, there will be more siblings in the near future. 
The entire pride has given birth now. So probably not.
I agree. Its great for the lioness, but for the long term future of the pride its problematic that its a boy. That pride needs lionesses or the Othawas are going to catch up. 
@Tr1x24 the average male lion is much bigger than females, the smaller Ndhzenga is much smaller than his brother who is is at best as big as the females, but bulkier. Londolozi has said all the females are bigger than him. It's very safe to say he is one of the smallest lions. Even males considered average like Tumbela and Mohawk are easily larger than the females. Ndhzengas were hardly even bigger than the Southern and Styx females according to the photographers.
Being territorial doesn't mean much when they have no pride to speak of. I think we can agree the success of lions are defined by the amount of offspring they raise, yes? Being territorial for a year in an area with low competition and lots of females to try to take over but still not managing to get a single pride is definitely a bummer. Ndhzengas were chased by Bboys in april 2020. In december 2019 the oldest had a borderline full mane and the second oldest was said by yourself to be around the same age. By april 2020 the two youngest were probably close to 5, and the two oldest over 5. I mean here the Ndhzengas in October 2019:  *This image is copyright of its original author Most males around 5 don't look nearly as much developed. 2 nomadic Gijimas with one barely over 4 ran from 2 prime Ndhzengas while a third injured Ndhzenga was roaring at them after the fight. How does this compare to four 5yo Ndhzengas running from 2 Birminghams? I'm not contradicting myself, not all cases of dominant males chasing nomads is the same. Back to BDM, you make lots of assumptions to how the prides could avoid the BDM when the reality is that there are many females close by but they failed to acquire any pride, something almost every single territorial made manages to, and they don't take 1 entire year as territorial to do that. Nomadic males roam huge areas, always changing territory, Nkuhumas, a big pride, are allowed to roam though BDM territory and live in their original territory just north of them without basically any pressure. The few occasions the BDM interacted with them, they barely gave any trouble. When they chased Talamatis Breakaway too, they showed no interest in putting any pressure, they just got the food and chilled. Gijimas had a proper pride, the subs started mating with them very quickly, not the same scenario as BDM, and the Styx lost half their subs in their nomadic life.
If the Ximhungwe cub is truly a male and he makes it to independence, there will be a strong chance the pride will live on out of Othawa blood entirely. Though you never know, females can have cubs at 13, 14 and even 15 years of age.
But also, is this Ximhungwe lioness even of Ximhungwe blood? I remember that out of the 5 Ximhungwe ( mothers of this one ), one was a Tsalala female and the other one a Ravenscourt female. Tsalalas are Ximhungwe Breakaways so I guess there's that, but this current Ximhungwe female might be the daughter of the Ravenscourt female.
By positioning themselves between several prides. They force the surrounding lionesses into aknowledging them as a potential future takeover candidate or atleast a risk to the cubs. Especially if they are more impressive than the current pride males. Which will lead the lionesses to seek them out later for mating.
So they may just be pursuing this strategy rather than the traditional takeover. Ultimately the pride is more a term for the social construct of lionesses living together. Much like coalition is for males. So should Ximhungwe die before leaving a successor. The Ximhungwe pride will continue to exist, but entirely out of Othawa blood. Which will be another dark twist on the already dark history the two prides have with eachother.
@Mapokser I disagree your points (as usual) but i dont want to go into further discussion as we clearly dont have same opinions and that wont change.
Only think I want to add is that 3 Ndhzengas are presumed to be born around late 2015 (based of their photos as small cubs in late 2016 and subs in late 2017) they where at best around 4.5 in April 2020, and after that they become territorial in the south. (10-27-2023, 11:48 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 the average male lion is much bigger than females, the smaller Ndhzenga is much smaller than his brother who is is at best as big as the females, but bulkier. Londolozi has said all the females are bigger than him. It's very safe to say he is one of the smallest lions. Even males considered average like Tumbela and Mohawk are easily larger than the females. Ndhzengas were hardly even bigger than the Southern and Styx females according to the photographers. Nwaswitshaka ran from the southern avocas and 2 Birmingham males at the beginning of their reign and then what happened after? Birmingham’s never came back south and the southern avocas never came west plus didn’t 5 Birminghams run from 3 old majingaline? If erongji size was such a problem then he would’ve been gone long ago but he is a dominate male of the largest pride in sabi sands plus he probably the youngest nwaswitshaka
@Ttimemarti I didn't say they ran from S.Avocas, if that happened this is the first time I'm hearing of it.
Bboys chased them from Birmingham territory, not the south. Yes Bboys lost to Majingis multiple times, even in their own territory, even while outnumbering Majingis and even when outnumbering very old Majingis or in even numbers against the old guys. Bboys' greatest feat of strength was chasing the 4 Ndhzengas 2v4, but their overall track record isn't exactly that good. I also didn't say 1/2 Ndhzenga size is a problem, I said size doesn't matter much, it rarely matters at all. I consider Ndhzengas a strong coalition, and their recent feats of chasing Skorro 1v1, dominating BDM and even fighting 1v2 against them without taking serious damage, are all proof of their strength, as well as the fact they hold such a prime territory in a very difficult area bordering the KNP. All I said about them ( """negatively""" ) was that prior to these recent events, they didn't had a chance to show how strong they were when not outnumbering the competition. |
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