|
Lions of Sabi Sands
|
 
I dont think he is a pushower, if he wants to join other male, which he wants, he needs to be submissive at first if other male acts agressive, otherwise 2 agressive males towards each others will just end up in a scrap and move on different directions, not sticking together.
Nhenha was not pushing him over when they meet and formed coalition, both males wanted that and thats why they formed close bond quite quickly, he was beating him in fights for mating rights, as Nhenha is more experienced fighter in these kind of situations and prob overall slightly stronger lion. Problem is that Talamati and Tumbela where not interested, for different reasons, they acted agressive, NK tried to act submissive in order they change their behavior, but it didnt happen. If he also acted agressive, chances they would stick together would be pretty much 0. 
@sik94 It is very unusual, what was the last time you saw 2 brothers at their prime, dominant males already, running from a single male?
But it seems It's just a false report. @Duco Ndona The thing with Manghenis was beyond incredible but at least there's the explanation that Manghenis didn't know how many enemies they had, when they realized they were only 2 subs they chased them back. But BDM knows from roars that their S8 neighbor is alone. But again it looks like the report is false. 
True, but that does not mean they have take everything with a smile. If a male in that position doesnt push back, he will just be chased off.
I think in Skorros case, Nym should have given him a good beating to earn the respect that keeps a coalition together. Quote:The thing with Manghenis was beyond incredible but at least there's the explanation that Manghenis didn't know how many enemies they had, when they realized they were only 2 subs they chased them back. But BDM knows from roars that their S8 neighbor is alone. But again it looks like the report is false. I am aware of that. It was just an example that sometimes weird things like that happen.
@Friarfan619 I'd be surprised if Talamatis aren't pregnant by now, they've mated with S8, PCM, Ndhzengas and Gijimas by now. But who knows they might have mated with NK and Skorro too.
@Tr1x24 I think you're hesitant in saying some lions aren't as strong as they "should" be. NK is not a nomad for lack of opportunities, but lack of overall confidence and boldness. He managed to be submissive to the old Nhenha and young Talamati despite being in his prime. He was also submissive to Styx and Tumbela. He has never proved himself by initiating a territorial dispute if he didn't had a numbers advantage and at the beginning was chased by the lone Tumbela with Nhenha. Nhenha who didn't beat him due to experience or strength ( I doubt Nhenha was any stronger than him ), Nhenha dominated him because he didn't fight back, he didn't even try to claim mating rights in the video we saw. NK isn't like Tumbela who for some reason thinks the West is his real home, he travels and explores a lot. If he was a bold male he'd have challenged some other loner for his territory like many other males do. Just north of NK male lays S8, Kruger Male and Red Road. A lack of opportunities isn't the issue for him, but do you see him ever challenging for a territory like that? I don't. He had the chance of becoming dominant with his brother, his brother dies fighting the pride they tried to take; he had the chance of remaining dominant with his father for more than just 1 month, but they couldn't hold their ground 2v2 against a younger coalition, and while their bond wasn't like that of brothers, many males have success in new coalitions, the previous NK male also lost his brother, but joined Skorro who also lost his brother and they were a strong and sucessful. People at the time weren't completely wrong in assuming that NK-Nhenha may have had been the stronger coalition, but it turns out they couldn't give PCM any resistance at all. Now he is alone and could just go looking for a 1v1, but he'll never do that. Same I'd say for BDM, you say It's soon to talk about their strength but IIRC you said they're like 6.5yo, they still have no proper pride despite Nkuhumas, Talamatis and Tsalala being around, all they did was mate with K6 which doesn't matter and Chela ( who may or may not breakaway to join them with any new cubs ). They faced outnumbered competition but A) Were initially chased off by Mohawk who had just lost his brother; B) Couldn't get rid of Mohawk or gave any real trouble to the NK pride at all despite meeting them multiple times; C) Were chased off by S8 at least once despite being established territorial males already; D) Got a golden chance catching Amahle alone but barely gave him any injuries. We don't even talk about BDM like they were a threat to NK pride. Some males are bolder, stronger, more aggressive, some aren't at all, it's just how it is, just like when we were discussing size, most are average but some are very big and some very small, admitting it isn't the same as belittling any lions. 
Late to the convo, but the chasing each other came from a comment made by Deon Wessels, the head guide at Chitwa
 *This image is copyright of its original author
@Mapokser NK doesnt hang in or near territories of these lone males, he doesnt have a map to see: "oh here is lone male, lets take on him".
Also, even in a 1vs1, between 2 prime and healthy males, takeover rarely happens. S8 would prob not takeover DM, if DM was not injured. S8, RRM and Kruger male are neighbours for years, now Skyned son also in the mix, and nobody takeover anyone (and its not that they didnt interact) because thats hard to do. Now answer me how S8, RRM, OM, Mapoza, BDM, Mo Vurhami and other famous loners become territorial? They all beat other territorial males in glorius fashion, right? Ofc no, they all become territorial on vacant/abandoned territory, gained vacant prides, as thats almost only way how solo males can become territorial, unless they attack unhealthy, injured or old male. Downplaying NK male as solo male is wrong, as he didnt had opportunity like those solo males. Ok, we can talk that he could done more to help Nhenha, but thats also debatable as they where matched against 2 PC males, as a new coalition, that was prob not winnable. And in the end, who knows what would happen if Styx didnt die, they could have been on PC males position rn and we wouldnt even talk about this. As for BDMs, they ousted Mohawk very easily, tried to attack Ndhzengas outnumbered, didnt succeed (no evidence that they caught Amahle in 1vs2) but succesfully carved territory in between Ndhzengas and S8. They dont have pride because Nkuhumas are on the run because of subs, but soon those 3,4 females will be in estrus, and they will mate with BDMs. Ndhzengas and Gijimas also didnt had big pride from the start, they had 1 adult female in SP, and then added Styxs when females return to estrus and stopped running from them because of subs. BDMs will have similar situation with Nkuhumas. Also PC males aswell had only 2 NK breakaways for almost a year. So this is pretty normal.
@Tonpa Interesting, from the WE videos it doesn't seem S8 got to do any chasing, maybe it was just a casual comment not meant to be completely literal/accurate or did S8 really manage to do some chasing? It'd be nice to know for sure.
@Tr1x24 NK has visited the North before with Nhenha IIRC, in fact there was speculation that S8 was the one to have injured his eye. Regardless, lions are built to explore and look for territory, NK isn't looking for territory, he's not trying to find a place he can claim, he's trying to form a coalition and hangout with females if given the opportunity. Takeovers 1v1 don't happen a lot because lone males are quite rare compared to males in coalitions. S8 ousted the limping DM but also chased the healthy Mohawk who was younger than him. S8 wanted the territory and would have challenged DM regardless of his condition. RR, S8 and Kruger male have territories already, they have no reason to risk ousting each other and are in no position to expand. NK is a nomad, but he lacks the drive to challenge because he is not a bold lion. As for your examples, Mo managed to go from being part of a coalition of 6 to be a loner while challenging a coalition of 6 before having the confidence to stand their ground, if anything he is a worse version of NK. I'm not very familiar with Mapoza, but all others have proven themselves in territorial clashes, if not taking over themselves, avoiding taker over attempts, to give the most recent example, what did the RR do when Mandevu claimed his territory? He kicked his ass. You can add the last Nharhu male to the mix, he lost his brothers, became dominant again despite having only 3 functional limbs and gave a serious beating on another prime male ( IIRC Mapoza himself ), why? Because Nharhu males were very strong and wouldn't accept being nomads if they are still in their primes. The point is, any prime male has the potential to be dominant and NK sure has many opportunities close to him. He may not win, perhaps the lion he chooses to challenge is stronger than him, it happens, but he should try, he should challenge if he hopes to be dominant, but he is not bold enough to go for a proper challenge. As for BDM. Look, I know you don't like the fact sometimes 2v1 happens and the loner escapes just fine ( despite it being documented multiple times, even in videos ), Amahle got caught, this is like a historical fact mentioned by rangers and filmed with Amahle carrying injuries to his hindlimbs and roaring with the 2 BDM roaring very close to him after the fight ( all filmed ans photographed at the same time ). They were initially chased by lone Mohawk and at least once by S8, and now there's a guide who said that S8 also gave chase in their latest clash so let's wait for verification. To keep adding to the list of lone males, these 2 BDM's father went head to head against the BDM, he got chased off initially but eventually got the upper hand and ousted the BDM. In comparison his sons were given a golden hand but can't manage to do much and I won't be surprised if Mohawk himself ousts them in the next few months, with the help of his sons. It seems the other younger males have turned 4 already and they were roaring recently. The BDM failed at taking over the pride and ousting Mohawk and his sons, and may pay for it in the near future. Ndhzengas, PCM and Gijimas had prides, BDM don't. K6 belongs to Ndhzengas and always mates with everybody cos she's infertile, Chela belongs to the pride that still accepts Mohawk and it's unknown if she'll breakaway to be the first female under BDM. Maybe she will, but we'll have to wait and see. But to finish my thoughts, I always gave mad respect to NK's fighting abilities and have defended him multiple times, as well as have said he's the most experienced fighter in the SS. But the truth is that he lacks the confidence to put his strength to good use. (08-21-2023, 05:55 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tonpa Interesting, from the WE videos it doesn't seem S8 got to do any chasing, maybe it was just a casual comment not meant to be completely literal/accurate or did S8 really manage to do some chasing? It'd be nice to know for sure. S8 did not Ousted darkmane no no no 
Ndzheng male: Eorenji
"This video was taken at Mala Mala Game Reserve in the Greater Kruger National Park. He is one of the Ndzheng male lions." I dont know when the video was taken but amazing footage (08-21-2023, 06:44 AM)Friarfan619 Wrote: Maybe not ousted but had him running a couple times on video Yes yes but he didn’t ousted darkmane only thing that happened was a few of the female realized the threat and they left the pride to join the new male before things got worse as S8 might’ve been the reason the 3rd talamati boy went missing
BDMs on Djuma this morning
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
|
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 30 Guest(s) |