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09-24-2020, 04:19 AM( This post was last modified: 09-24-2020, 04:25 AM by Slayerd )
(09-24-2020, 02:54 AM)Potato Wrote: "The Thanda impi males were big males"
No guide ever said they are big neither in Manyeleti nor in Sabi Sands.
",probably not the biggest of Manyeleti"
Tintswalo guide openly said that Avoca/Giraffe were much larger.
"Skorro was much bigger and taller than Sizanani"
It was actually the opposite Sizanani left, Skorro right:
*This image is copyright of its original author
If you want to base the potential of these boys based on genes then they have pretty incredible genes. Blondie, the father of Sizanani, was the largest male in Sabi Sands. But why only talk of their paternal genes? Their mothers are the grandaughters of the Massive Skybed Males and daughter of the old Birmingham Males who were the largest Males of the Timbevati. They are also potential Nieces of the mighty Matimbas and sisters of the Birmingham Boys who are as of rn the largest Males in Sabi Sand according to rangers. So they have the genes. These boys definitely had a stressful nomadic life as we can see from their manes that they aren't as developed as they could be. Their manes are much smaller than their brother with the Mbiri. But if they feed well and bulk up, they can undoubtedly become great specimen and a good coalition. They don't need to be the biggest lions in Kruger, the Nharu of the Timbevati aren't the biggest lions of their reserve but they are good specimen and strong lions.
09-24-2020, 09:33 AM( This post was last modified: 09-24-2020, 09:48 AM by Tr1x24 )
(09-24-2020, 01:34 AM)Potato Wrote: The oldest Nharu litter is from November 2015. I can't say for sure from my memory, but I think there wasn't any significant age difference between Nharu litters and all Tumbela males should be born by the end of 2015 and so they are turning 5 years old soon. Thanda Impi haven't been big males and so I do not think those boys will be among largest lions around either. Also as already 4 years old they were easly chassed around by Red Road male so I do not think they will be beastly. They do not need to be tho as they got into region dominated by two single dominant males and so they shouldn't have any problem with taking over entire western sector soon.
Idk whats your point..
Regardless of if Thanda Imp males where big or not ( i dont think they where small, but neither the biggest), but thats pretty irrelevant, genes are transfered from mother size too, big fathers doesnt means big sons and vice versa..
Avoca/Giraffe males where supposedly biggest lions around, and out of 5 his sons only Dark Mane is impressive in size, Blondie, Mohawk and 2 S. Avocas are quite average lions..
Also, Red Road male, who we discuss few months ago is most likely sired by Scorro and not Avoca/Giraffe males, and he is the biggest male in Manyeleti and absolute beast..
What size has to do with the fact that they where ousted by Red Road male from their pride? 99% males got ousted from their prides at that age..
I never said that they will be biggest as you claim, i just said that based on their bodies, will be quite big when they bulk up...
Also 6th Nharu i very tall lion by Tintswalo rangers words, and other 3 Mbiris are catching him in size, look some videos, those boys are much larger then lionesses already, it safe to say that they will be big lions also..
" Blondie, the father of Sizanani, was the largest male in Sabi Sands"
Statement based on what exactly?
"These boys definitely had a stressful nomadic life as we can see from their manes that they aren't as developed as they could be"
Yes, that is one the think which guided me to statement that those boys won't be any size above avarage.
"But if they feed well and bulk up, they can undoubtedly become great specimen and a good coalition."
Similary as in humans case lions do not grow their whole life, but only at the years of youth. If the don't get enough food while their growth hormone is still working and they do not grow in that time, then they can not just make up for it later.
"They don't need to be the biggest lions in Kruger, the Nharu of the Timbevati aren't the biggest lions of their reserve but they are good specimen and strong lions."
Indeed, that is why I do not understand some people feeling annoyed by my statement. There is nothink wrong that some lions are bigger than others, but even the opposite, as without diversity lion population would be boring.
" why only talk of their paternal genes? Their mothers are the grandaughters of the Massive Skybed Males and daughter of the old Birmingham Males who were the largest Males of the Timbevati. They are also potential Nieces of the mighty Matimbas and sisters of the Birmingham Boys who are as of rn the largest Males in Sabi Sand according to rangers. So they have the genes."
Maybe, they have good genes, maybe they will be huge, but I myself do not believe it at all.
"Birmingham Boys who are as of rn the largest Males in Sabi Sand according to rangers."
Acording to rangers from Djuma Dark Mane Avoca is larger than the Birminghams.
"Regardless of if Thanda Imp males where big or not ( i dont think they where small, but neither the biggest), but thats pretty irrelevant, genes are transfered from mother size too, big fathers doesnt means big sons and vice versa.."
Yes
"Avoca/Giraffe males where supposedly biggest lions around, and out of 5 his sons only Dark Mane is impressive in size, Blondie, Mohawk and 2 S. Avocas are quite average lions.."
Xikukutsus and Birmingham male are also really big, but of course you're right about that sons are not guaranteed to be the size of their fathers, they can be bigger than then, can be also smaller.
"Also, Red Road male, who we discuss few months ago is most likely sired by Scorro and not Avoca/Giraffe males, and he is the biggest male in Manyeleti and absolute beast.."
That Scorro sired Red Road male is just assumption based on photos he was in Ngala with some cubs. It doesn't mean at all that he was the only male which mate with Red Road's mother. Red Road could have been sired by the MAtimbas or Avoca/Giraffes as well.
"What size has to do with the fact that they where ousted by Red Road male from their pride? 99% males got ousted from their prides at that age.. "
The body size is important factor in lion vs lion encounter and I find starange that 5, 4 years old males were pushed around by single male and I think if Nharus would be big they wouldn't be pushed around.
"I never said that they will be biggest as you claim, i just said that based on their bodies, will be quite big when they bulk up.."
You said: "This boys will be beasts when they bulk up, very tall and long bodies it looks like.."
I do not agree with that statement at all.
"Also 6th Nharu i very tall lion by Tintswalo rangers words"
It doesn't mean his 5 brothers will be big as well. As you may notice Tintswalo ranger already couple of times said that 6th Nharu and 3 Mbiris are big youngsters, but never said such a think about 5 (now 3) Nharus.
(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: " Blondie, the father of Sizanani, was the largest male in Sabi Sands"
Statement based on what exactly?
"These boys definitely had a stressful nomadic life as we can see from their manes that they aren't as developed as they could be"
Yes, that is one the think which guided me to statement that those boys won't be any size above avarage.
"But if they feed well and bulk up, they can undoubtedly become great specimen and a good coalition."
Similary as in humans case lions do not grow their whole life, but only at the years of youth. If the don't get enough food while their growth hormone is still working and they do not grow in that time, then they can not just make up for it later.
"They don't need to be the biggest lions in Kruger, the Nharu of the Timbevati aren't the biggest lions of their reserve but they are good specimen and strong lions."
Indeed, that is why I do not understand some people feeling annoyed by my statement. There is nothink wrong that some lions are bigger than others, but even the opposite, as without diversity lion population would be boring.
" why only talk of their paternal genes? Their mothers are the grandaughters of the Massive Skybed Males and daughter of the old Birmingham Males who were the largest Males of the Timbevati. They are also potential Nieces of the mighty Matimbas and sisters of the Birmingham Boys who are as of rn the largest Males in Sabi Sand according to rangers. So they have the genes."
Maybe, they have good genes, maybe they will be huge, but I myself do not believe it at all.
"Birmingham Boys who are as of rn the largest Males in Sabi Sand according to rangers."
Acording to rangers from Djuma Dark Mane Avoca is larger than the Birminghams.
"Regardless of if Thanda Imp males where big or not ( i dont think they where small, but neither the biggest), but thats pretty irrelevant, genes are transfered from mother size too, big fathers doesnt means big sons and vice versa.."
Yes
"Avoca/Giraffe males where supposedly biggest lions around, and out of 5 his sons only Dark Mane is impressive in size, Blondie, Mohawk and 2 S. Avocas are quite average lions.."
Xikukutsus and Birmingham male are also really big, but of course you're right about that sons are not guaranteed to be the size of their fathers, they can be bigger than then, can be also smaller.
"Also, Red Road male, who we discuss few months ago is most likely sired by Scorro and not Avoca/Giraffe males, and he is the biggest male in Manyeleti and absolute beast.."
That Scorro sired Red Road male is just assumption based on photos he was in Ngala with some cubs. It doesn't mean at all that he was the only male which mate with Red Road's mother. Red Road could have been sired by the MAtimbas or Avoca/Giraffes as well.
"What size has to do with the fact that they where ousted by Red Road male from their pride? 99% males got ousted from their prides at that age.. "
The body size is important factor in lion vs lion encounter and I find starange that 5, 4 years old males were pushed around by single male and I think if Nharus would be big they wouldn't be pushed around.
"I never said that they will be biggest as you claim, i just said that based on their bodies, will be quite big when they bulk up.."
You said: "This boys will be beasts when they bulk up, very tall and long bodies it looks like.."
I do not agree with that statement at all.
"Also 6th Nharu i very tall lion by Tintswalo rangers words"
It doesn't mean his 5 brothers will be big as well. As you may notice Tintswalo ranger already couple of times said that 6th Nharu and 3 Mbiris are big youngsters, but never said such a think about 5 (now 3) Nharus.
It was literally stated at the time that Blondie was the biggest. They also said he was larger than the Mapogos and Mak was believed by almost everyone to be a massive lion at the time. Regarding the Birminghams, the other day Nkorho stated that the Birminghams are the most impressive lions they saw and when a Nkorho guide saw one of the Four ways pirde Males, he said " What a massive lion, reminds me of when we had the Birmingham Boys around here". That kinda tells you they think the Birminghams were quite impressive lions. Despite not being the tallest lions, they pack quite a lot and are tanks. You're right, just like humans, we don't grow after a certain age but lions can continuously build muscle and bulk up just like humans. With enough food and lions not needing to exercise, they can build up. They are only 4 and half, they're not 7 year olds. They can still grow. Nsuku was believed to be largest of the Bboys in terms of bulk at the start and Nhenha and Mfumo became much larger than him after taking over. The peak of a lion is said to be 9 to 11 years old in terms of size whilst they reach their prime at around 7 years old. These boys already look decently tall. They can now bulk up and grow their manes and muscle.
"It was literally stated at the time that Blondie was the biggest. They also said he was larger than the Mapogos and Mak was believed by almost everyone to be a massive lion at the time."
Stated by who?
"Regarding the Birminghams, the other day Nkorho stated that the Birminghams are the most impressive lions they saw and when a Nkorho guide saw one of the Four ways pirde Males, he said " What a massive lion, reminds me of when we had the Birmingham Boys around here". That kinda tells you they think the Birminghams were quite impressive lions."
I am not saying Birminghams are tiny as probably Nhenha is third or second largest lion around althrough Dark Mane is said by Djuma guides to be larger and therefore Birmingham are not the largest lions around.
"Nsuku was believed to be largest of the Bboys in terms of bulk at the start and Nhenha and Mfumo became much larger than him after taking over."
Nsuku was the most dominant of the coalition when the took over for the first time. He never was considered the largest tho by any meassure.
"These boys already look decently tall. They can now bulk up and grow their manes and muscle."
Which lion around doesn't look decently tall in the arena? Which males will be smaller than Nharus? Why you think Nharus will be over avarage so by the definition larger than most lions around?
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(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: The body size is important factor in lion vs lion encounter and I find starange that 5, 4 years old males were pushed around by single male and I think if Nharus would be big they wouldn't be pushed around
Thats false, size doesnt matter im that situation, yet confidence of the young males.. Confidence =/=size.. Also besides 1 scrap over carcass, i dont think it was reportwd that RRM chased them.. By your logic then big coalitions of young males would never be ousted out of prides of they have bigger numbers or what?? 4 Mbiris left the pride too when Junior came in..
(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not agree with that statement at all.
Well i guess we disagree here, to me they dont look small compared to Othawa lioness, they are just skinny..
(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: It doesn't mean his 5 brothers will be big as well. As you may notice Tintswalo ranger already couple of times said that 6th Nharu and 3 Mbiris are big youngsters, but never said such a think about 5 (now 3) Nharus.
Yea, because there was literaly 0 reports and sightings of them in Tintswalo for a year, and even when they where there before, Tintswalo wasnt making videos then, so info of them was very minimal..
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(09-24-2020, 03:04 PM)Potato Wrote: "It was literally stated at the time that Blondie was the biggest. They also said he was larger than the Mapogos and Mak was believed by almost everyone to be a massive lion at the time."
Stated by who?
"Regarding the Birminghams, the other day Nkorho stated that the Birminghams are the most impressive lions they saw and when a Nkorho guide saw one of the Four ways pirde Males, he said " What a massive lion, reminds me of when we had the Birmingham Boys around here". That kinda tells you they think the Birminghams were quite impressive lions."
I am not saying Birminghams are tiny as probably Nhenha is third or second largest lion around althrough Dark Mane is said by Djuma guides to be larger and therefore Birmingham are not the largest lions around.
"Nsuku was believed to be largest of the Bboys in terms of bulk at the start and Nhenha and Mfumo became much larger than him after taking over."
Nsuku was the most dominant of the coalition when the took over for the first time. He never was considered the largest tho by any meassure.
"These boys already look decently tall. They can now bulk up and grow their manes and muscle."
Which lion around doesn't look decently tall in the arena? Which males will be smaller than Nharus? Why you think Nharus will be over avarage so by the definition larger than most lions around?
It was stated by Safari Live at the time that the Nkuhuma Males aka Blondie and Dozi were larger than the Mapogos. That's where it was stated. It was also stated by guides that Blondie was the most impressive lion they have ever saw. I'm not going to look for a specific link. Regarding Nhenha and DM, you won't know for sure who is larger but just as you said the Djuma guides thought DM was larger, it's clear the Nkorho guides who also see DM think the Birminghams were more impressive. Nevertheless Nhenha is in the conversation for largest in Sabi Sands rn and from what I've seen of DM, he has a lot of size but Nhenha just looks like a much bulkier beast. Also I don't think anyone else could be in the conversation besides Nhenha and DM for you to say third. Regarding Nsuku, the Safari Live guides literally thought he was bigger, they might have only been looking at mane but that's what they believed at the time so I'm just referring to that as an example that lions change when they enter their dominance. Last point, I don't think anyone is saying they will be the biggest lions around, the OG poster just said they will be beasts which you refuted. You also said these boys won't grow which they probably will. They can still grow in bulk and their manes can grow extremely fast with testosterone as they become more dominant. And as they grow in confidence and experience, they can be a force in Western Sabi Sand. Not only HB is in danger but also the Othawa male. They will target him next because the Othawa pride is only 3 lionesses and 4 sub adults. It won't satisfy a 3 member coalition for too long. Obviously this is only a theory. But with them in the west growing and the Birminghams in the east and the N Avocas in the North and the N'was in the south, the Othawa male is under a lot of pressure. He might be pushed back into a nomadic life or face something much worse.
"Thats false, size doesnt matter im that situation"
This is some sbsurd statement. Of course it matters a lot.
"yet confidence of the young males"
I am not saying body size is the only important factor. Confidance is probably more important, but also it is bound to certain extend with body size and coalition numbers. It is obviously way easier to be brave against smaller or numerically disadvantage opponent. Overall that single Red Road male easly chassed Nharus around leads me to assumption that they were much smaller than Red Road. Of course it is only assumption, not a proved, but it is still more to back up my statement that Nharus will be avarage or under avarage lionsthan you have to back up that they will be over avarage which is statement based on nothink.
" Also besides 1 scrap over carcass, i dont think it was reportwd that RRM chased them."
They were chassed around couple of times as far as I remember.
"By your logic then big coalitions of young males would never be ousted out of prides of they have bigger numbers or what"
As I said already above I am not saying that body size and coalition numbers are the only factors in lion warfare.
"Well i guess we disagree here, to me they dont look small compared to Othawa lioness, they are just skinny.. "
The think is how will they compare to other males in the arena.
"4 Mbiris left the pride too when Junior came in"
There wasn't any interactions between Orpen males and Mbiris +6th Nharu seen.
" Tintswalo wasnt making videos then, so info of them was very minimal.."
There wasn't videos by then althrough there still were regular reports from that arena. It can not be excuse at all.
"Yea, because there was literaly 0 reports and sightings of them in Tintswalo for a year"
Well... there were plenty of reports while Nharus were still in Manyeleti. They spent there 4 years while there were regular updates from that region.
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"lso I don't think anyone else could be in the conversation besides Nhenha and DM for you to say third"
Hairby Belly depends of his current condition. Possibly Fourway and Torchwood pride males. I am also curious how would young Torchwood and Styx males compare to the adults at the moment.
"Last point, I don't think anyone is saying they will be the biggest lions around, the OG poster just said they will be beasts "
Beastly for me mean over avarage or much over avarage and therefore puting the into the largest lion around.
"And as they grow in confidence and experience, they can be a force in Western Sabi Sand."
Of course they have coalition numbers and shouldn't have much of a problem with conquering western sector and possible later expanding even further. Time will tell.
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(09-24-2020, 03:44 PM)Potato Wrote: "Thats false, size doesnt matter im that situation"
This is some sbsurd statement. Of course it matters a lot.
"yet confidence of the young males"
I am not saying body size is the only important factor. Confidance is probably more important, but also it is bound to certain extend with body size and coalition numbers. It is obviously way easier to be brave against smaller or numerically disadvantage opponent. Overall that single Red Road male easly chassed Nharus around leads me to assumption that they were much smaller than Red Road. Of course it is only assumption, not a proved, but it is still more to back up my statement that Nharus will be avarage or under avarage lionsthan you have to back up that they will be over avarage which is statement based on nothink.
" Also besides 1 scrap over carcass, i dont think it was reportwd that RRM chased them."
They were chassed around couple of times as far as I remember.
"By your logic then big coalitions of young males would never be ousted out of prides of they have bigger numbers or what"
As I said already above I am not saying that body size and coalition numbers are the only factors in lion warfare.
"Well i guess we disagree here, to me they dont look small compared to Othawa lioness, they are just skinny.. "
The think is how will they compare to other males in the arena.
"4 Mbiris left the pride too when Junior came in"
There wasn't any interactions between Orpen males and Mbiris +6th Nharu seen.
" Tintswalo wasnt making videos then, so info of them was very minimal.."
There wasn't videos by then althrough there still were regular reports from that arena. It can not be excuse at all.
So because Tintswalo rangers didnt report of their size and because they where chased by RRM you think they will not be impressive lions? Lol..
Just look at them and compare to Othawa lionesses, they are yet not bulky but they have big bone structure..
*This image is copyright of its original author
He dont look any smaller then Birmingham young male or their brother 6th Nharu when they are near lioness..
Again, im not saying that they will be biggest lion around, yet that they will be impressive when bulk up.. So idk why you having such a problem with that..
09-24-2020, 06:00 PM( This post was last modified: 09-24-2020, 06:02 PM by Potato )
"Yea, and you have 0 evidence against it,only your words based of nothing,so you must be right lol.. "
Here peak of hypocrisy from you. Beside that great most of lions by definition are avarage size so it is not me who have to prove that they are avarage, but you that they are not.
(09-24-2020, 06:00 PM)Potato Wrote: Here peak of hypocrisy from you. Beside that great most of lions by definition are avarage size so it is not me who have to prove that they are avarage, but you that they are not.
Find me where did i say that they will be above average or something like that, i said numerous times that they wont be the biggest but impressive..
I said: "This boys will be beasts when they bulk up, very tall and long bodies it looks like.."
So no average lion in size is not beastly or impressive for you??
I think we have different definitions of some words, and you are twisting my words all the time..
I dont want to discuss with you anymore, because you obvious dont understand what im trying to say..
