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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 (Yesterday, 05:46 PM)FACR2212 Wrote:Why not? If Kruger male can stay with the pride long enough, clashes between him and the young male will become frequent and eventually he will have to leave. Isn't that how all young males are ousted - they got the sympathy of their mothers/aunts/sisters, they still feel comfortable with their natal pride, but eventually the dominant male gets enough of it. Actually I was surprised the females did not help him more.(Yesterday, 05:18 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nice to see this out of the young Nkuhuma male, with the amount of male lions he’s been around u wouldn’t be surprised at all if he just completely backed down, as he normally would when a new coalition enters the territory. He’s a fighter tho. This time the fight was not very serious. NK put up aggression first but eventually became submissive. Surely Kruger male can easily take him on even if things get more serious than it was this time. It feels like Kruger male has been on a mission from the start of his nomadic journey into Sabi Sands, he wants to be territorial again. (Not saying he easily can with all the dangers lurking.) ' (Decided to copy @FACR2212 s response in Nkuhuma tread into this thread)  (Today, 12:19 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote:(Yesterday, 05:46 PM)FACR2212 Wrote:Why not? If Kruger male can stay with the pride long enough, clashes between him and the young male will become frequent and eventually he will have to leave. Isn't that how all young males are ousted - they got the sympathy of their mothers/aunts/sisters, they still feel comfortable with their natal pride, but eventually the dominant male gets enough of it. Actually I was surprised the females did not help him more.(Yesterday, 05:18 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nice to see this out of the young Nkuhuma male, with the amount of male lions he’s been around u wouldn’t be surprised at all if he just completely backed down, as he normally would when a new coalition enters the territory. He’s a fighter tho. I hate to say it, but with each day that passes, the more I feel that S Avoca is no longer with us. This new situation makes that an even more difficult pill to swallow. Not long after his disappearance, his most recent partner has finally maneuvered his way into possibly becoming dominant again. It's been clear from the start, KM has been on a mission to do just that. While I always got the sense that S Avoca was simply trying to survive. Who among us wouldn't have loved to see one last ride from those two old legends?  (Today, 12:19 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote:(Yesterday, 05:46 PM)FACR2212 Wrote:Why not? If Kruger male can stay with the pride long enough, clashes between him and the young male will become frequent and eventually he will have to leave. Isn't that how all young males are ousted - they got the sympathy of their mothers/aunts/sisters, they still feel comfortable with their natal pride, but eventually the dominant male gets enough of it. Actually I was surprised the females did not help him more.(Yesterday, 05:18 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nice to see this out of the young Nkuhuma male, with the amount of male lions he’s been around u wouldn’t be surprised at all if he just completely backed down, as he normally would when a new coalition enters the territory. He’s a fighter tho. Well, I don't think KM alone can stay for too long with the pride with so many coalitions around. NK will have to leave at some point, but I don't think he'll leave because of KM. I'm not questioning the experience and determination of KM, but he's on borrowed time due to his age (11 years old? I'm not sure). Only time will tell. (Yesterday, 08:14 PM)KM600 Wrote:(Yesterday, 08:06 PM)Dangeroscos Wrote:(Yesterday, 07:43 PM)sunless Wrote: Video of Floppy Ear and K12 reuniting, probably shot shortly before the one you posted:
Watching that video, of the Nkuhuma Male and KM, it looks as though KM either attempted, or did, bite the young male on the side of the neck or shoulder, and it is at that exact moment that the lionesses gets up and responds. You see the back of KM's head, but he cocks it to the side, and it seems that he goes in for a bite. Almost as if to say, some smacking around is permitted, but no teeth are allowed. It is also at that moment that the Nkuhuma Males briefly takes a submissive posture.
Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands
I know that prides like Styx and Ottawas, Ximungue and Tsalala are quite old already Middle term we got Manghenis and Nkuhumas A bit younger there is the Talamati pride Most recently we got Kambulas, Ntsevus and Msultu We lost some over the years like the Sparta, Charleston and Castleton ( I wanted to know more about this pride in particular, they seem to have a story with the Ximungue) wich were really old too There are some prides that I just get pieces of information here and there and try to puzzle all up together like the 4ways and Southern pride  (Today, 12:19 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote:(Yesterday, 05:46 PM)FACR2212 Wrote:Why not? If Kruger male can stay with the pride long enough, clashes between him and the young male will become frequent and eventually he will have to leave. Isn't that how all young males are ousted - they got the sympathy of their mothers/aunts/sisters, they still feel comfortable with their natal pride, but eventually the dominant male gets enough of it. Actually I was surprised the females did not help him more.(Yesterday, 05:18 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nice to see this out of the young Nkuhuma male, with the amount of male lions he’s been around u wouldn’t be surprised at all if he just completely backed down, as he normally would when a new coalition enters the territory. He’s a fighter tho. In my opinion this didn't look too dissimilar to a pride male showing dominance with one of his sons, rather than an act of serious aggression. Not surprising really considering the KM's age, that he he's not going out for a full out attack that is. And the lionesses don't tend to step in in these situations, as they seem to understand how it is, so I wasn't surprised that they didn't really do anything. In fact lionesses are known to do the same thing sometimes, tell the young males it's time to leave the pride, if they overstay their welcome. For sure the Nkuhuma young male isn't winning a fight with the KM, but I don't think it would be so unevenly matched. While still in great shape the KM is aging, and the young male is 4 now, and though he's underdeveloped mane-wise young males have speed and energy, and a certain 'explosiveness' that old males just don't have. Still though, he was right to be submissive in the end, as you noted. It would be good if he took this as his sign to leave, before far more aggressive and dangerous males catch him, such as the Mantimahles. (Today, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands Ximhungwe and Castleton are the same pride: https://rtrwildlifevideos.blogspot.com/2...lions.html In 2004 the 6 females of the Castleton pride were taken over by the Sand River Male aka Dzunani and soon were producing cubs all over the place. Due to the fact that the pride seldom crossed onto Castleton property anymore it was decided to rename them after the large open area that they were now spending most of their time - Ximhungwe clearings. Tsalala was a Ximhungwe/Castleton breakaway of two Tsalala original females in the 90's decade (one of them was the mother of BB or Tailless Tsalala). Southern pride is rather an old pride, because Rollercoaster malles were territorial over southern pride around 2002-2003 (they sired the 2 Golfcourse males, that in turn sired the 5 Selati males). (Today, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around(Today, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands I am fascinated ( not sure if it´s the right word but oh well...) by the way you study the dynamics and history of these beatiful creatures About the topic: Yeah I tought just that, but still had the doubt if it Xim were a breakaway from Castleton that went extinct, now I know that it isn´t the case I wished to use the name Castleton more because it hits a nerve every time I mistype Ximhungwe, but for the sake of people not getting confused I will forever call it " Ximungwe" It´s not like there was a breakway of some sort it just happend for them to shift territories, not like the other breakaways that we can´t have two prides with the same name like what happend to the Nkuhumas, Talamaties Kambulas and so on I knew the Tsalalas were a breakaway from the Xim pride, but they themselfs are quite old already too What I don´t know is if it´s there a correlation between Xim and Ottawas, that would be cool to know given that the Xim pride is divided in half by the two prides Weren´t the southern pride the ones who got poached quite badly in the past and made a recovery or am I just confusing things ? Thanks again for you reply (Today, 03:15 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:(Today, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around(Today, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands I was thinking the exact same thing, my friend. It is rather astonishing, the speed and diligence @FACR2212 has shown in learning about these creatures. Fantastic stuff! (Today, 03:15 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:(Today, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around(Today, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands You are welcome! I must admit I got a little obssesed... lol Maybe you are confusing southern pride with sand river pride? Sand River pride was composed of two females and five male subadults (Mapogo's sons). As many know, they were sadly killed after the fence was broken by a storm (or something like that), only one subadult returned to Sabi Sands but could not make it. One of the most unfortunates histories... Edit: By the way, it's not the current sand river pride in southern sabi sands nowadays. (Today, 03:15 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:(Today, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around(Today, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands Hi. I was reading your question on Othowa lions. I always wonder more on Othowa. Split Rock male lions were born in Othowa. Also Split Rock male lions; I do not know if they had cubs with Othowa lioness. Split Rock male lions were around when male lions mak and five Sparta were young. Split Rock with Tsalala lioness; a male lion solo is a male lion was said son of Split Rock and Tsalala. After Mak, and five Sparta, male lions father of Kambula lions, were with Othowa like Styxt, Tsalala daughter who were Mahangenie. Birmingham male lions were not with Othowa. |
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