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(09-12-2023, 12:49 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Who confirmed that S8 and RRM clashed?
I guess it is likely they clashed, but just because one male is more injured then other, that doesnt mean that male was victorius, as by the looks of it, nobody actually saw how it played out (just saying).
Some interesting dynamics of solo males in that area, clashes between S8 vs RRM and Kruger male vs Skybed son further east.
Well wasn’t S8 seen in sabi sands? And Red Road doesn’t come to sabi sands so S8 must’ve been in manyeleti and came back south after the fight… so he retreated south yes? Red Road stayed In his territory and roared he was probably the victory S8 does not look good at all. Mandevu didn’t look that bad
(09-12-2023, 12:49 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Who confirmed that S8 and RRM clashed?
I guess it is likely they clashed, but just because one male is more injured then other, that doesnt mean that male was victorius, as by the looks of it, nobody actually saw how it played out (just saying).
Some interesting dynamics of solo males in that area, clashes between S8 vs RRM and Kruger male vs Skybed son further east.
Deon Wessels - head guide at SS
And I agree for all we know RRM was the one invading S8 territory and although S8 come out worse he kept his pride and defended his borders. It’s like the Mapogo vs Matimba fight, nobody witnessed it but from the looks of the Mapogos they had apparently come off worse but nobody remembers that nor should they. The fight was for territory and the Mapogos held their territory, could very well be the same situation with S8.
09-12-2023, 02:31 AM( This post was last modified: 09-12-2023, 02:56 AM by afortich )
From the view of a simple fight, the one causing more damage on the other one is the winner.
From the territorial perspective, I guess we would need more information (unless someone has more information) about who was challenging, who's territory was being disputed, etc.
09-12-2023, 03:42 AM( This post was last modified: 09-12-2023, 03:44 AM by Cath2020 )
It's not about who has the most visible injuries. Injuries could be even more serious that are not even visible....such as internal bleeding, extensive bruising, limbs injured (which is worse than a gash to the head for lions reliant on hunting and strength/speed).
There is also the matter that RR, if he was defending and not invading, has more to lose than a lion who's invading his territory. A lion will have much more motivation to protect his pride and keep his pride status than another invading solo male who just wants more territory and extra females.
And we all did not see any footage of the fight between the two, unlike with RR and Mandevu. We clearly saw what happened and which lion got the real upper hand, and again, RR was defending his goods and status as king of his pride, whereas Mandevu was just exploring, pushing the boundaries of what he's capable...and only 1 vs. 1. His brothers were not in a position to back him up....maybe Ncile is now.
As I see it, a lone lion, head of his pride, should be able to defend his pride 1 vs. 1 at the very least, or else he does not deserve to keep that position. So far, so good for him as he's still in fit condition.
(09-12-2023, 03:42 AM)Cath2020 Wrote: It's not about who has the most visible injuries. Injuries could be even more serious that are not even visible....such as internal bleeding, extensive bruising, limbs injured (which is worse than a gash to the head for lions reliant on hunting and strength/speed).
There is also the matter that RR, if he was defending and not invading, has more to lose than a lion who's invading his territory. A lion will have much more motivation to protect his pride and keep his pride status than another invading solo male who just wants more territory and extra females.
And we all did not see any footage of the fight between the two, unlike with RR and Mandevu. We clearly saw what happened and which lion got the real upper hand, and again, RR was defending his goods and status as king of his pride, whereas Mandevu was just exploring, pushing the boundaries of what he's capable...and only 1 vs. 1. His brothers were not in a position to back him up....maybe Ncile is now.
As I see it, a lone lion, head of his pride, should be able to defend his pride 1 vs. 1 at the very least, or else he does not deserve to keep that position. So far, so good for him as he's still in fit condition.
I doubt either S8 or RRM had invaded trying to takeover, both are solo males and control prides, makes no sense to seek out another pride and additional territory unless it’s vacated from the previous males. In hind sight tho, it wouldn’t matter and the territorial male would have treated it like a takeover attempt.
Heard Ncila is now the dominant male of the coalition albeit this was determined shortly after Mandevu fight with RRM, could have still been nursing his injuries and Ncila could have very well taken advantage.
09-12-2023, 04:18 AM( This post was last modified: 09-12-2023, 05:37 AM by afortich )
(09-12-2023, 03:42 AM)Cath2020 Wrote: It's not about who has the most visible injuries. Injuries could be even more serious that are not even visible....such as internal bleeding, extensive bruising, limbs injured (which is worse than a gash to the head for lions reliant on hunting and strength/speed).
Not visible injuries will be most likely apparent anyways because probably cause a change in the lion's normal demeanor, otherwise, no serious injuries.
Keeping the territory or stuff like that doesn't mean, necessarily, that the male defending won, far from it. There are countless examples of the male defending the territory losing the clash but keeping his status.
So that aside, could S8 have won by chasing RR off at the end? Sure, nobody saw it nor is there any evidence pointing out to that not being a possibility. Just as RR could have been the one chasing, or maybe neither submit and they just stopped fighting and walked away, which also happens.
But what we can say for sure is that while they were fighting, RR performed better and inflicted more damage... Much more than he did to Mandevu who was completely hopeless for several minutes, though it seems S8 inflicted some damage back which Mandevu seemingly wasn't able to.
(09-12-2023, 04:46 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Keeping the territory or stuff like that doesn't mean, necessarily, that the male defending won, far from it. There are countless examples of the male defending the territory losing the clash but keeping his status.
I’m talking about the whole situation, sure they could be worse off after the fight but the takeover attempt is a failure.
(09-12-2023, 04:46 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Keeping the territory or stuff like that doesn't mean, necessarily, that the male defending won, far from it. There are countless examples of the male defending the territory losing the clash but keeping his status.
I’m talking about the whole situation, sure they could be worse off after the fight but the takeover attempt is a failure.
If it was a take over attempt, then it would seem it has failed. However, how do we know that is what this is? S8 has his hands full between the Talamatis and the Imbali prides, and RRM has always given me the impression that he is content with what he has, if he wanted to expand the number of prides under his control, or his territory, then after he had healed from that fight with the Tintswalos would have been the perfect time to do that, when the Nharus almost would not accept him back, instead he went through a long period of doing his best to get back into their good graces.
However, we did recently see S8 and the Talamatis go into the BDMs territory, and some speculation has been that they were pushed that way by the Imbalis. How do we not know that the same thing may have pushed them north into RRM and Nharu territory? I am not sure this was a takeover attempt, and likely something has happened that lead them to this conflict. Hopefully we will get more news soon, on what exactly has transpired.
I don't think the injury looks from a 1v1 fight, usually you just see a round hole when there's a bite on the skull. That to me looks like a horn from an animal where a single horn struck him and nearly went through his head. That's too serious of an injury to be inflicted by a single lion.
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(09-12-2023, 06:20 AM)sik94 Wrote: I don't think the injury looks from a 1v1 fight, usually you just see a round hole when there's a bite on the skull. That to me looks like a horn from an animal where a single horn struck him and nearly went through his head. That's too serious of an injury to be inflicted by a single lion.
I thought the same thing when it was first posted, but it sounds like there may have been some witnesses, though that remains unclear at the moment. From what has been said, some of the guides from SS sound pretty sure that it was these two males who had some sort of conflict. We'll continue to hope for some further clarity.
(09-12-2023, 12:47 AM)Tonpa Wrote: These two definitely fought? There's some disparity between the ages of their wounds, the limping RR video is from 2nd Sep too
I'd like to know who confirmed that fought too. Video of RR in July after Mandevu fight he has no facial scratches. Most rescent video RR does have those facial scratches. Wonder who confirmed the fight?
(09-12-2023, 06:20 AM)sik94 Wrote: I don't think the injury looks from a 1v1 fight, usually you just see a round hole when there's a bite on the skull. That to me looks like a horn from an animal where a single horn struck him and nearly went through his head. That's too serious of an injury to be inflicted by a single lion.
He has more injuries on his face, not only that big one.
Why would be too serious? Lion teeths and claw can do serious damage.
Remember Mfumo face injury, and that was caused by his brother in a fight for mating rights.
Also, White Bboy has sustained similar face injury to S8 not long ago.
In the months leading up to August the Mhangene Pride had stolen the show but this month the Nsevu breakaway sub-adults have been an exciting group of five lions to follow.
The Mhangene lioness that had been denning with her cub at Tavangumi Koppies has introduced her cub to the rest of the pride making the total ten cubs from four females! This pride is looking in superb condition and it has been a pleasure watching them thrive at Singita Sabi Sand.
The Nkuhuma lioness and her two offspring now occupy the area to the north of Ebony Lodge and has even been sighted hunting in the riverbed from the Ebony suites. August is Women’s Month in South Africa and this lioness is an icon for women in Africa as she endures the hardship of raising cubs by herself and does it so gracefully.
(09-12-2023, 02:06 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Why would be too serious? Lion teeths and claw can do serious damage.
It's the shape and size of the hole that's a little unusual, this is what I expect from injuries when I lion gets bitten through the skull. S8 has a much bigger hole in his head.
*This image is copyright of its original author
(09-12-2023, 02:06 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Remember Mfumo face injury, and that was caused by his brother in a fight for mating rights.
Mfumo didn't have a skull injury, his injury was on skin and tissue under the right eye and nose area. That's probably a bad reference for this case.
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