There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
I suppose you are referring to a Birmingham Male that is in Timbavati and still with his natal pride. What sort of injury did he have?
11-20-2020, 01:32 PM( This post was last modified: 11-20-2020, 01:35 PM by T I N O )
@sundarbans Exactly, We're talking about the young Birmingham male from the Timbavati area, He had an injured leg for months. During the first months that this back leg injury was very bad he could barely move and keep up with the pride, even mostly of Ngala rangers were thinking that he will not surviving. Now he was seen walking extremely well and doing very good.
A few lionesses from the Mhangeni Pride ventured into the central parts of Londolozi this week. Two cubs around four months of age were with them. We know that three lionesses have given birth thus far, so hope to see the full complement one of these days once all the cubs join the pride.
Londolozi-Sabi Sands-Posted on November 20/2020.
Photo credit to: Pete Thorpe
(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
@Potato Is Big Boy Mangheni one of the 12 you mentioned? I can think of few lions who had a rougher go of it that that buy did. An absolute tragedy tbh.
Yes, he was one of the 12 althrough on my list I was focusing on lions being still alive and around so in that case when I was talking about Mhangenis I meant particularly 2 Mhangeni females which are the only survivors of the 12 untill now. That was in the end survivors list.
The following 1 user Likes Potato's post:1 user Likes Potato's post • BA0701
Junior and those youngsters are getting rly big, Junior looks much bigger then Aunty Othawa in that frame..
In few months they will be capable on surviving on their own, Junior will be 3 yrs old in 4 months..
But as for now, they are still not getting pressured by Tumbelas..
I know, I can't believe how good Junior & his brothers are looking:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Inyanti Safari- Nov 2020
Junior will turns in a true beast on a few years, He is son of dark mane Majingilane. Definitely has inherited amazing genes from his dad and uncles. Imagine if he leave the Othawa pride with the Matimba sons. What a wish!
(11-20-2020, 09:51 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Junior will turns in a true beast on a few years, He is son of dark mane Majingilane. Definitely has inherited amazing genes from his dad and uncles. Imagine if he leave the Othawa pride with the Matimba sons. What a wish!
They will, in a 1-2 years or so, lion dynamics in Sabi Sands will be crazy and shifting..
In that time Bboys will be getting older, Nwaswitshakas will prob try to expand their territory, N. Avocas will prob abandon their prides and search for new ones and who knows what Tumbelas will be up to.. Also 3 Othawa, 5 Kambula and 3 Talamati young males will be running around, plus its always possibility of new males coming into Sabi Sands.. Exiting,but prob bloody times in future..
(11-20-2020, 09:51 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Junior will turns in a true beast on a few years, He is son of dark mane Majingilane. Definitely has inherited amazing genes from his dad and uncles. Imagine if he leave the Othawa pride with the Matimba sons. What a wish!
They will, in a 1-2 years or so, lion dynamics in Sabi Sands will be crazy and shifting..
In that time Bboys will be getting older, Nwaswitshakas will prob try to expand their territory, N. Avocas will prob abandon their prides and search for new ones and who knows what Tumbelas will be up to.. Also 3 Othawa, 5 Kambula and 3 Talamati young males will be running around, plus its always possibility of new males coming into Sabi Sands.. Exiting,but prob bloody times in future..
In fact a lot of young lions are growing in Sabi Sands.
Some in the Nkuhuma pride,Talamati pride,Kambula pride,Othawa pride. The three Tumbela males,The four N'waswitshaka etc etc. Sabi Sands will became extremely interesting by lion followers and for future guests in just a few years
Two of the three sub-adult males from the Talamati lion pride near of a waterhole at Djuma Private Game Reserve
Djuma-Posted on November 18/2020.
Photo credit to: Sharron Damant Hoffmann
"In fact a lot of young lions are growing in Sabi Sands."
Neither of them is guaranteed to stay is Sabi Sands or even reach to adulthood. There were similar talks about older Mhangenis and older Talamatis conquering Sabi Sands or Avoca males conquering Timbavati, but with the nomadic males you will never know where they will settle untill they will make terrytorial challange. Trying to predict how will male lion dynamic look like in the coming 4 years or so is usseles as there can be totally different male lions in the arena than we new expect to be, same as now there are totally different coalitions in region we would 4 years ago expect to be there.
(11-21-2020, 01:04 AM)Potato Wrote: "In fact a lot of young lions are growing in Sabi Sands."
Neither of them is guaranteed to stay is Sabi Sands or even reach to adulthood. There were similar talks about older Mhangenis and older Talamatis conquering Sabi Sands or Avoca males conquering Timbavati, but with the nomadic males you will never know where they will settle untill they will make terrytorial challange. Trying to predict how will male lion dynamic look like in the coming 4 years or so is usseles as there can be totally different male lions in the arena than we new expect to be, same as now there are totally different coalitions in region we would 4 years ago expect to be there.
I never mentioned that they will settled up in Sabi Sands when they grew up. But this could be quite possible given that those young males don't will go far from where they were born. I don't think that give a point of view about a few young lions could be useless. Rather of being useless talking about that imo It's quite interesting debating and read what the other members says about it.
