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Lions of Manyeleti
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 (01-23-2025, 12:54 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: No scars, wounds, anything on Mandevu, Nzuri (Orpen son) nor on the young Mbiri subadult male. So what actually happened when Mbiri males (I mean Zigzag and Shaka, to avoid confusion lol) 'infiltrated' the pride? Nothing happened? And they just joined back into the pride? FascinatingHopefully they do not meet. I was wondering and I had a question. Mibiri male lions are getting older. How long would other male lions stay ? Menduvo is eight? Maybe he could not alone, but Orphen male lions may need experience. Have they all been seen? Sub adult Mibiri? Orphen male lion and Menduvo?  
Tintswalo (?) Males, Mandevu & Nzuri, credits to Vestment:
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(01-23-2025, 06:25 AM)Guillermo94 Wrote:(01-23-2025, 12:54 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: No scars, wounds, anything on Mandevu, Nzuri (Orpen son) nor on the young Mbiri subadult male. So what actually happened when Mbiri males (I mean Zigzag and Shaka, to avoid confusion lol) 'infiltrated' the pride? Nothing happened? And they just joined back into the pride? FascinatingHopefully they do not meet. I was wondering and I had a question. Mibiri male lions are getting older. How long would other male lions stay ? Menduvo is eight? Maybe he could not alone, but Orphen male lions may need experience. Yes, in the latest Tintswalo video all were seen, so Mandevu, Orpen son (Nzuri), and the young male subadult. The young subadult is not part of the coalition, though, he still hangs with his mothers, aunts and sisters. I am not sure if I understand your first question correctly, but Mbiri males are getting older yes, although they are still very capable and healthy. I think they could remain dominant for two more years. About Mandevu & Nzuri, yeah, well, I agree the Nzuri male needs experience, actually I mean experience outside the pride, because he is still with the pride that he was born in. Ideally Mandevu & Nzuri would be ousted and move to other areas / prides, imo.
As of right now, without pressure, I doubt they'll get ousted anytime soon.
What may happen is that Nzuri will grow older and more confident and then he'll leave with Mandevu like Mandevu had done with Ncila. Only reason Mandevu is still in Mbiri pride territory is because he lacks the strength to take another territory, but this might change as Nzuri turns 4.5, 5yo.  Seems like the other Mbirhi Young Male would join the coalition of Mandevu and Nzuri, would be quite surprising as it also happened to Nzuri he was young when Ncila and Mandevu accepted Nzuri even though Nzuri is not their son would not be surprised if he did join but it would probably cause too much inbreeding for the Mbirhi Pride and it would be a 3rd generation inbreeding if they continue as the Mbirhi Young Male is the 1st inbred and the 2nd inbred generation is the lone young cub.
Mandevu and Nzuri with the young boy that could eventually be part of coalition in the future.
Yeah I agree don't see them getting ousted soon. There's just not enough dynamics in Manyeleti currently for that too happen. Well there are regularly males that venture in and out of Manyelet but somehow nobody seems interested to push through.
And like you said @Mapokser, Mandevu lacks the strength. Whatever happened in Kruger with Ncile may have also impacted him. As for Nzuri, yes he may outgrow Mandevu in terms of confidence (I hope so, he looks great). But still being with his natal pride, in a relatively safe environment, is currently not giving the young boy the experience he needs imo.
I always thought it was just a dream that the Tintswalo son could join the coalition, but if that happens it'd be amazing and great news for Nzuri who will have a younger partner in case Mandevu doesn't have good longevity.
But could you imagine it? Mbiri Males, Tintswalo Males, Nzuri and now the Tintswalo son, we'd have 4 different generations of Mbiri males being dominant over the Mbiri pride. Anyway is the Tintswalo son even 3yo already? Such a full blown roar is a direct challenging, in a normal situation if the fathers were to see their 3yo son roaring they'd oust him without thinking twice, but neither Mandevu or Nzuri seemed to mind.  (01-25-2025, 08:44 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Anyway is the Tintswalo son even 3yo already? Such a full blown roar is a direct challenging, in a normal situation if the fathers were to see their 3yo son roaring they'd oust him without thinking twice, but neither Mandevu or Nzuri seemed to mind. I dont think Mandevu/Nzuri are "full" territorial males, as we see when Scar/Shaka come, they just leave and return after. Sub male also prob dont see them like that, especially Nzuri, with who he was growing up.  (01-25-2025, 08:44 AM)Mapokser Wrote: great news for Nzuri who will have a younger partner in case Mandevu doesn't have good longevity. This is why I'm most pleased about it. As Mandevu reaches the end of his prime, the younger Mbiri male will be approaching his. And he's much closer in age to Nzuri, despite the perceived gap in development. Very good for Nzuri's long-term prospects. The only downside is he's an inbred lion, and so the genetics he passes on won't be the best. However I wouldn't call that a full blown roar. It sounded to me very much like he was testing it out, having a first try. You definitely wouldn't mistake the roar for that of a full grown male lion if you heard it without seeing the lion, and if lions can tell the difference between male and female roars - which they must be able to - I doubt Red Road or the Mbriri males would think that there's now another male in the Mbriri pride territory. It's still amazing that he's even attempting it at such a young age, though quite indicative of the strange pride dynamics in the Mbriris at the moment.
@Tr1x24 I think they are fully dominant, they roar, scent mark, have a pride, cub, control a clear territory and defend it ( chased RR and the Nharu pride ).
Tintswalos since the death of Orpen Males to Ncila's death have also always avoided Mbiris. It'd be saying Red Road isn't fully territorial because he has to leave if Mandevu & Nzuri were to show up. Sometimes dominant males have to retreat in their own territory if they aren't strong enough to engage the invading force as not always the invading force will stick around to actually oust them. I also don't think that sub is the son of the Mbiris, since the death of the Orpen Males, the only time the Mbiris were seen with their natal pride was in that vid with Scar mating with 3 lionesses in early May 2021. The subadult was born in 2022, the Tintswalos always had a strong hold in that pride, aside from that time Scar mated that I've already mentioned, and way more recently now, around the time they abandoned it and the Mbiris were invading leading to the birth of this new cub, so Mbiris were just not around when the sub was born. Another point is that the Mbiris never recognized him, every time they showed up the subs went into hiding and last time Scar chased this very sub and almost caught him. Regardless, Mbiri males are more inbred than the Tintswalos, the Tintswalos are sons of the unrelated Thanda Impi Males, Mbiri Males are the offspring of the original Mbiri females ( sired by Old Skybeds ) and the Matimba who were also fathered by the Old Skybeds. So the sub would be much more inbred if son of Mbiri males than Tintswalos. @NLAL11 I mean he might not even be 3yo, probably not even that larger than the females if at all, I doubt he can have a roar as powerful as that of adult males, but it was definitely a full "territorial" roar instead of a contact call. (01-25-2025, 09:35 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @NLAL11 I mean he might not even be 3yo, probably not even that larger than the females if at all, I doubt he can have a roar as powerful as that of adult males, but it was definitely a full "territorial" roar instead of a contact call. Oh absolutely, no mistaking it for a contact call, but like you said size-wise his diaphram just isn't as big or powerful as a full grown male's, probably not as strong or as developed as an adult female's, which was why he would start but couldn't keep it going for very long. |
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