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(11-13-2024, 09:20 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Mantimahle males mating with Nhahru females... More trouble for Red Road.
If he can catch one alone, I would never bet against RRM in a 1v1 fight with any lion. The issue is you simply do not see these two off by themselves, very often.
(11-13-2024, 09:27 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Actually dunno who the female ia now that I'm watching the video as Mantimahles + 1 female chased the Nhahru pride off a carcass.
Comments suggest it may be one of the Imbalis, but the guide points out that it is a silver eyed female from the Nhahrus, so I don't not, myself.
(11-13-2024, 09:20 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Mantimahle males mating with Nhahru females... More trouble for Red Road.
If he can catch one alone, I would never bet against RRM in a 1v1 fight with any lion. The issue is you simply do not see these two off by themselves, very often.
I don't bet against RR in a 1v1 either, but the issue is, even if RR is lucky to get a 1v1, and wins the fight, it's very unlikely he'd do enough damage to do a difference.
It's just way too difficult for lions to do meaningful damage in a 1v1, it rarely happens. Even when we see a lion with a badly scarred face from a 1v1 like de Jesse v Oloimina fight in Mara, or the Plains Camp Young Male, it ends up being only superficial damage.
RR got a nice grip on Mandevu's face, who could barely do anything to defend himself, hold him for several minutes, but still did nothing but superficial damage. He also got K5 in a even better position where K5 couldn't even scratch RR's face like Mandevu was doing, he was hopeless and even got K4 to join in to do some damage to his back, yet K5 only got superficial injuries. There was also that injury on S8's face, speculated at the time to have been caused by RR, it looked a bit bad, but still, it turned out to be superficial...
Out of the top of my head the only times male lions were documented to get seriously injured in 1v1 were potentially that Loonkito fight ( no full confirmation on the level of injuries, but it was basically the biggest and longest lion fight ever filmed, with lots of blood on both lions, and very badly scarred face on Loonkito ) and the fight between the Makhulu Mapogo and the Gwarri Bush Male Nhlanguleni, where Nhlanguleni left with a bad limp and a terrible wound on his face where Makhulu's broken canine was lodged, it looked like Nhlanguleni was gonna die, yet he survived, so did Loonkito and probably the lion he fought against.
Dozie the Nkuhuma pride male who was in a coalition with Blondie did kill one of the 2 dominant males in Manyeleti in 2008, but the coalition was made by one very old male and a 4yo younger male, I don't remember which of the 2 Dozie killed, but while still impressive, it wasn't exactly a fight between prime dominant males and Dozie was a beast, against a young or old and weakened male, it'd be much easier to do real damage.
Then there's the already mentioned Nhlanguleni who somehow killed one of the 2 dominant males of the Othawa and Sand River Prides, before ousting the other and taking over their territory in 2005, but we were given no details about the clash, just that Nhlanguleni was seen moving towards the kill site where the 2 dominant males were feeding, and the next day 1/2 dominant male was found dead and the other running from Nhlanguleni.
This is why solo males are always doomed in these situations, where coalitions, even if outnumbered, still have a chance, you may be 2, with 3, 4 or 5 enemies, but if you get one alone or split them to get one, you have a good chance to do real damage or straight up kill one of your enemies, but a solo male has no such privilege.
By Vestment, the Tintswalo male Mandevu with his almost 4yo cousin/adopted son, the young Mbiri Orpen male:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I shouldn't hold my breath since all the male lions I cheer for end up failing at being successful, but I'm excited to see the Orpen subadult be successful, he looks so amazing for his age! He reminds me a bit of the Ndhuna Matimba, not as handsome as Ndhuna was, but there's something about him that makes him stunning IMO. He also looks a hella lot like Jr Nkuhuma, of course.
Orpen son is still very young, but is already very well devoloped, is big ( maybe bigger than Mandevu, very likely taller at the very least ), is inbred with Skybed/Matimba blood, a bloodline that makes precocious males, so who knows, maybe in a little over half a year, 4,5yo Orpen Jr might be a reliable partner for Mandevu in taking over a territory, they could take over the Nhahru pride or a breakaway of it if some stronger coalition like the Mantimahles don't.
Ideally Mandevu's surviving son in the Mbiri pride would join them in the future, but that is already too much wishful thinking I guess since that sub is even much younger, I could see him joining the Orpen son if the coalition with Mandevu doesn't work out tho.
(11-13-2024, 09:20 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Mantimahle males mating with Nhahru females... More trouble for Red Road.
If he can catch one alone, I would never bet against RRM in a 1v1 fight with any lion. The issue is you simply do not see these two off by themselves, very often.
I don't bet against RR in a 1v1 either, but the issue is, even if RR is lucky to get a 1v1, and wins the fight, it's very unlikely he'd do enough damage to do a difference.
It's just way too difficult for lions to do meaningful damage in a 1v1, it rarely happens. Even when we see a lion with a badly scarred face from a 1v1 like de Jesse v Oloimina fight in Mara, or the Plains Camp Young Male, it ends up being only superficial damage.
RR got a nice grip on Mandevu's face, who could barely do anything to defend himself, hold him for several minutes, but still did nothing but superficial damage. He also got K5 in a even better position where K5 couldn't even scratch RR's face like Mandevu was doing, he was hopeless and even got K4 to join in to do some damage to his back, yet K5 only got superficial injuries. There was also that injury on S8's face, speculated at the time to have been caused by RR, it looked a bit bad, but still, it turned out to be superficial...
Out of the top of my head the only times male lions were documented to get seriously injured in 1v1 were potentially that Loonkito fight ( no full confirmation on the level of injuries, but it was basically the biggest and longest lion fight ever filmed, with lots of blood on both lions, and very badly scarred face on Loonkito ) and the fight between the Makhulu Mapogo and the Gwarri Bush Male Nhlanguleni, where Nhlanguleni left with a bad limp and a terrible wound on his face where Makhulu's broken canine was lodged, it looked like Nhlanguleni was gonna die, yet he survived, so did Loonkito and probably the lion he fought against.
Dozie the Nkuhuma pride male who was in a coalition with Blondie did kill one of the 2 dominant males in Manyeleti in 2008, but the coalition was made by one very old male and a 4yo younger male, I don't remember which of the 2 Dozie killed, but while still impressive, it wasn't exactly a fight between prime dominant males and Dozie was a beast, against a young or old and weakened male, it'd be much easier to do real damage.
Then there's the already mentioned Nhlanguleni who somehow killed one of the 2 dominant males of the Othawa and Sand River Prides, before ousting the other and taking over their territory in 2005, but we were given no details about the clash, just that Nhlanguleni was seen moving towards the kill site where the 2 dominant males were feeding, and the next day 1/2 dominant male was found dead and the other running from Nhlanguleni.
This is why solo males are always doomed in these situations, where coalitions, even if outnumbered, still have a chance, you may be 2, with 3, 4 or 5 enemies, but if you get one alone or split them to get one, you have a good chance to do real damage or straight up kill one of your enemies, but a solo male has no such privilege.
I get all of that, for sure, and agree with what you said. My comment was more meant to reiterate what you said, by pointing out just how low RRM's chances are against such a powerful duo. I think this is a terrible situation for RRM and the Nhahrus.
That fight with Loonkito was terribly brutal, and long, for sure the longest most brutal fight between 2 lions I have ever seen. There is documentation of some of Loonkito's injuries after that fight, there are pictures on this site, of his shredded face. There are no pictures of the other male, that I am aware of, just on one of the videos of the fight that I have seen, it mentions that one male died of his injuries afterwards.
