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07-03-2022, 03:42 AM( This post was last modified: 07-03-2022, 03:54 AM by Pckts )
There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
07-06-2022, 01:50 AM( This post was last modified: 07-06-2022, 02:48 AM by Styx38 )
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
07-07-2022, 03:27 AM( This post was last modified: 07-07-2022, 03:27 AM by Luipaard )
(07-06-2022, 01:50 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
07-08-2022, 01:52 AM( This post was last modified: 07-08-2022, 02:07 AM by Pckts )
(07-08-2022, 01:46 AM)Twico5 Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 11:35 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 11:19 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 04:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 03:27 AM)Luipaard Wrote:
(07-06-2022, 01:50 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense
Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.
This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that.
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense
Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.
This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that.
*This image is copyright of its original author
You just called the Western Ghats leopards big and claimed that was because of a small Tiger population. Now come to find out, you were wrong and the Tiger population is large so you now you switch it to the Leopards being “noticeably smaller?”
In regards to Ranthambore, this is just another area that proves your claim wrong. Ranthambore has another large population of Tigers with a healthy and large population of Leopards and I can guarantee you the boulders your one small image shows is surrounded by trees and both the tigers and leopards will share the habitat. Even in Africa, you’ll often times see lions and their cubs resting on boulders just like this all throughout the Serengeti.
Also I’d like to hear where you think the “hilly forested areas” are in S/N India and the corresponding “larger leopard population” in comparison to the other reserves in S/N that have smaller leopards and aren’t as “hilly?”
Lastly when I say bold I simply mean that generally the sightings of Leopards seems to be more common in S. India than Central even though both areas have a healthy Tiger population and this most likely is due to the denser foliage.
(07-03-2022, 03:42 AM)Pckts Wrote: There’s a big difference between the trees in Africa which are thicker with more weight bearing branches and the Sal trees in India which are thin with small branches.
Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense
Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.
This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that.
*This image is copyright of its original author
You just called the Western Ghats leopards big and claimed that was because of a small Tiger population. Now come to find out, you were wrong and the Tiger population is large so you now you switch it to the Leopards being “noticeably smaller?”
In regards to Ranthambore, this is just another area that proves your claim wrong. Ranthambore has another large population of Tigers with a healthy and large population of Leopards and I can guarantee you the boulders your one small image shows is surrounded by trees and both the tigers and leopards will share the habitat. Even in Africa, you’ll often times see lions and their cubs resting on boulders just like this all throughout the Serengeti.
Also I’d like to hear where you think the “hilly forested areas” are in S/N India and the corresponding “larger leopard population” in comparison to the other reserves in S/N that have smaller leopards and aren’t as “hilly?”
Lastly when I say bold I simply mean that generally the sightings of Leopards seems to be more common in S. India than Central even though both areas have a healthy Tiger population and this most likely is due to the denser foliage.
The tiger population in bandipur and kabini are smaller than in central tiger reserves. Bandipur leopards dont look large like the hill dwelling western ghats leopards i was talking about.
07-08-2022, 08:34 PM( This post was last modified: 07-08-2022, 08:36 PM by Pckts )
(07-08-2022, 08:04 PM)Twico5 Wrote:
(07-08-2022, 04:48 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-08-2022, 05:58 AM)Twico5 Wrote:
(07-08-2022, 01:52 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-08-2022, 01:46 AM)Twico5 Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 11:35 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 11:19 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 04:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-07-2022, 03:27 AM)Luipaard Wrote:
(07-06-2022, 01:50 AM)Styx38 Wrote: Fair enough.
However, wouldn't Leopards be even less arboreal
in the arid regions of the Middle East and the Fir forests of the Caspian, Himalayas and Northern China/Ussuri?
The Fir tree branches do not seem ideal for a Leopard to perform a prolonged chase on primate and other small animals. Not to mention that they are apex predators in some of these regions, so even less use of trees.
The Leopards could hoist their kills on a few occasions in temperate forests.
Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense
Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.
This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that.
*This image is copyright of its original author
You just called the Western Ghats leopards big and claimed that was because of a small Tiger population. Now come to find out, you were wrong and the Tiger population is large so you now you switch it to the Leopards being “noticeably smaller?”
In regards to Ranthambore, this is just another area that proves your claim wrong. Ranthambore has another large population of Tigers with a healthy and large population of Leopards and I can guarantee you the boulders your one small image shows is surrounded by trees and both the tigers and leopards will share the habitat. Even in Africa, you’ll often times see lions and their cubs resting on boulders just like this all throughout the Serengeti.
Also I’d like to hear where you think the “hilly forested areas” are in S/N India and the corresponding “larger leopard population” in comparison to the other reserves in S/N that have smaller leopards and aren’t as “hilly?”
Lastly when I say bold I simply mean that generally the sightings of Leopards seems to be more common in S. India than Central even though both areas have a healthy Tiger population and this most likely is due to the denser foliage.
The tiger population in bandipur and kabini are smaller than in central tiger reserves. Bandipur leopards dont look large like the hill dwelling western ghats leopards i was talking about.
Ranthambore:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Once again the Tiger density in Bandipur is higher than Kanha. Since Kanha is larger than Bandipur it’ll have more tigers but in terms of Tigers per sq mile, Bandipur will have more. And totals are still going to be close.
Your claim about leopard size differences isn’t backed by anything of substance as Bandipur Leopards look as large or larger than most others and certainly larger than the ones you see in Tadoba or Kanha most of the time.
And what is the point of posting hills?
I can do the same with forest everywhere. No Leopard is going to stay in barren terrain unless prey is there as well, if ample prey is there then Tigers will be too.
(07-07-2022, 03:27 AM)Luipaard Wrote: Pckts is wrong. There's enough footage of Indian leopards mating and fighting in trees. Those instances did not take place in Sal trees. Both India and the African continent have a great variation in trees.
India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense
Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.
This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that.
*This image is copyright of its original author
You just called the Western Ghats leopards big and claimed that was because of a small Tiger population. Now come to find out, you were wrong and the Tiger population is large so you now you switch it to the Leopards being “noticeably smaller?”
In regards to Ranthambore, this is just another area that proves your claim wrong. Ranthambore has another large population of Tigers with a healthy and large population of Leopards and I can guarantee you the boulders your one small image shows is surrounded by trees and both the tigers and leopards will share the habitat. Even in Africa, you’ll often times see lions and their cubs resting on boulders just like this all throughout the Serengeti.
Also I’d like to hear where you think the “hilly forested areas” are in S/N India and the corresponding “larger leopard population” in comparison to the other reserves in S/N that have smaller leopards and aren’t as “hilly?”
Lastly when I say bold I simply mean that generally the sightings of Leopards seems to be more common in S. India than Central even though both areas have a healthy Tiger population and this most likely is due to the denser foliage.
The tiger population in bandipur and kabini are smaller than in central tiger reserves. Bandipur leopards dont look large like the hill dwelling western ghats leopards i was talking about.
Ranthambore:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Once again the Tiger density in Bandipur is higher than Kanha. Since Kanha is larger than Bandipur it’ll have more tigers but in terms of Tigers per sq mile, Bandipur will have more. And totals are still going to be close.
Your claim about leopard size differences isn’t backed by anything of substance as Bandipur Leopards look as large or larger than most others and certainly larger than the ones you see in Tadoba or Kanha most of the time.
And what is the point of posting hills?
I can do the same with forest everywhere. No Leopard is going to stay in barren terrain unless prey is there as well, if ample prey is there then Tigers will be too.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Its possible that because leopards are able to stash their kills in trees easily in bandipur and kabini they get larger than leopards in other tiger reserves. Still though they are smaller than leopards living outside these reserves. Leopards in the nilgiri hills for example are the apex predator and easily appear to be larger than bandipur leopards. Tiger occurence and density does obviously affect leopard size in one way or another i dont get what youre trying to prove. Tigers steal their kills and kill leopards. As a result of this leopards also avoid large prey items that tigers tend to hunt.
A tiger is not stealing a leopard's kill in an area like this. There would be no tigers on these cliffs to begin with and a tiger couldnt chase after and catch a leopard in such terrain. There is a reason why the jawai hills dont have any tigers. Tigers arent physcially suited for the terrain. These boulder covered hills found across india are where leopards thrive, because a lot of the time there is just enough prey for leopards but without any competition.
(07-07-2022, 04:09 PM)Pckts Wrote: India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.
What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense
Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.
This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that.
*This image is copyright of its original author
You just called the Western Ghats leopards big and claimed that was because of a small Tiger population. Now come to find out, you were wrong and the Tiger population is large so you now you switch it to the Leopards being “noticeably smaller?”
In regards to Ranthambore, this is just another area that proves your claim wrong. Ranthambore has another large population of Tigers with a healthy and large population of Leopards and I can guarantee you the boulders your one small image shows is surrounded by trees and both the tigers and leopards will share the habitat. Even in Africa, you’ll often times see lions and their cubs resting on boulders just like this all throughout the Serengeti.
Also I’d like to hear where you think the “hilly forested areas” are in S/N India and the corresponding “larger leopard population” in comparison to the other reserves in S/N that have smaller leopards and aren’t as “hilly?”
Lastly when I say bold I simply mean that generally the sightings of Leopards seems to be more common in S. India than Central even though both areas have a healthy Tiger population and this most likely is due to the denser foliage.
The tiger population in bandipur and kabini are smaller than in central tiger reserves. Bandipur leopards dont look large like the hill dwelling western ghats leopards i was talking about.
Ranthambore:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Once again the Tiger density in Bandipur is higher than Kanha. Since Kanha is larger than Bandipur it’ll have more tigers but in terms of Tigers per sq mile, Bandipur will have more. And totals are still going to be close.
Your claim about leopard size differences isn’t backed by anything of substance as Bandipur Leopards look as large or larger than most others and certainly larger than the ones you see in Tadoba or Kanha most of the time.
And what is the point of posting hills?
I can do the same with forest everywhere. No Leopard is going to stay in barren terrain unless prey is there as well, if ample prey is there then Tigers will be too.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Its possible that because leopards are able to stash their kills in trees easily in bandipur and kabini they get larger than leopards in other tiger reserves. Still though they are smaller than leopards living outside these reserves. Leopards in the nilgiri hills for example are the apex predator and easily appear to be larger than bandipur leopards. Tiger occurence and density does obviously affect leopard size in one way or another i dont get what youre trying to prove. Tigers steal their kills and kill leopards. As a result of this leopards also avoid large prey items that tigers tend to hunt.
A tiger is not stealing a leopard's kill in an area like this. There would be no tigers on these cliffs to begin with and a tiger couldnt chase after and catch a leopard in such terrain. There is a reason why the jawai hills dont have any tigers. Tigers arent physcially suited for the terrain. These boulder covered hills found across india are where leopards thrive, because a lot of the time there is just enough prey for leopards but without any competition.
*This image is copyright of its original author
What about the Himalayas? Especially the Western part of the Himalayas.
For example, Hangul Deer, of all sexes, make a good portion of the Leopard's diet in Dachigam National Park.
'The very low sex ratio and fawn-to-female ratio could be attributed to significant predation by Leopard on all sex and age classes of Hangul and of Black Bear principally on young deer.
Our studies on predator-prey relationships at Dachigam NP have revealed that the Leopard Panthera pardus and the Asiatic Black Bear Ursus thibetanus are the major predators in the area and that the Hangul formed a major proportion (about 25%) of the Leopard diet at Dachigam NP (Iqbal et al. 2004; Ahmad 2006). In other words, 60% of the biomass of the Leopard diet is constituted by Hangul'
source: Ahmad, Khursheed, S. Sathyakumar, and Qamar Qureshi. "Conservation status of the last surviving wild population of hangul or Kashmir deer Cervus elaphus hanglu in Kashmir, India." Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society 106.3 (2009): 245.
Not to mention that the Leopard does not face serious competition since Tigers are not found too much in the Himalayas.
(07-07-2022, 11:19 PM)Styx38 Wrote: What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?
If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?
I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.
Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.
Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.
So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense
Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.
This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that.
*This image is copyright of its original author
You just called the Western Ghats leopards big and claimed that was because of a small Tiger population. Now come to find out, you were wrong and the Tiger population is large so you now you switch it to the Leopards being “noticeably smaller?”
In regards to Ranthambore, this is just another area that proves your claim wrong. Ranthambore has another large population of Tigers with a healthy and large population of Leopards and I can guarantee you the boulders your one small image shows is surrounded by trees and both the tigers and leopards will share the habitat. Even in Africa, you’ll often times see lions and their cubs resting on boulders just like this all throughout the Serengeti.
Also I’d like to hear where you think the “hilly forested areas” are in S/N India and the corresponding “larger leopard population” in comparison to the other reserves in S/N that have smaller leopards and aren’t as “hilly?”
Lastly when I say bold I simply mean that generally the sightings of Leopards seems to be more common in S. India than Central even though both areas have a healthy Tiger population and this most likely is due to the denser foliage.
The tiger population in bandipur and kabini are smaller than in central tiger reserves. Bandipur leopards dont look large like the hill dwelling western ghats leopards i was talking about.
Ranthambore:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Once again the Tiger density in Bandipur is higher than Kanha. Since Kanha is larger than Bandipur it’ll have more tigers but in terms of Tigers per sq mile, Bandipur will have more. And totals are still going to be close.
Your claim about leopard size differences isn’t backed by anything of substance as Bandipur Leopards look as large or larger than most others and certainly larger than the ones you see in Tadoba or Kanha most of the time.
And what is the point of posting hills?
I can do the same with forest everywhere. No Leopard is going to stay in barren terrain unless prey is there as well, if ample prey is there then Tigers will be too.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Its possible that because leopards are able to stash their kills in trees easily in bandipur and kabini they get larger than leopards in other tiger reserves. Still though they are smaller than leopards living outside these reserves. Leopards in the nilgiri hills for example are the apex predator and easily appear to be larger than bandipur leopards. Tiger occurence and density does obviously affect leopard size in one way or another i dont get what youre trying to prove. Tigers steal their kills and kill leopards. As a result of this leopards also avoid large prey items that tigers tend to hunt.
A tiger is not stealing a leopard's kill in an area like this. There would be no tigers on these cliffs to begin with and a tiger couldnt chase after and catch a leopard in such terrain. There is a reason why the jawai hills dont have any tigers. Tigers arent physcially suited for the terrain. These boulder covered hills found across india are where leopards thrive, because a lot of the time there is just enough prey for leopards but without any competition.
*This image is copyright of its original author
What about the Himalayas? Especially the Western part of the Himalayas.
For example, Hangul Deer, of all sexes, make a good portion of the Leopard's diet in Dachigam National Park.
'The very low sex ratio and fawn-to-female ratio could be attributed to significant predation by Leopard on all sex and age classes of Hangul and of Black Bear principally on young deer.
Our studies on predator-prey relationships at Dachigam NP have revealed that the Leopard Panthera pardus and the Asiatic Black Bear Ursus thibetanus are the major predators in the area and that the Hangul formed a major proportion (about 25%) of the Leopard diet at Dachigam NP (Iqbal et al. 2004; Ahmad 2006). In other words, 60% of the biomass of the Leopard diet is constituted by Hangul'
source: Ahmad, Khursheed, S. Sathyakumar, and Qamar Qureshi. "Conservation status of the last surviving wild population of hangul or Kashmir deer Cervus elaphus hanglu in Kashmir, India." Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society 106.3 (2009): 245.
Not to mention that the Leopard does not face serious competition since Tigers are not found too much in the Himalayas.
Here is what Dachigam looks like.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Leopards in the western himalayas are large imo. Their skull measurements are similar to those of persian leopards.
Leopard Predation Thread
