There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Just out of curiosity, what other answers do you need?
You see how it begins, the confrontation and the ending.
And unless you spoke with the guide directly and asked him specific questions, there can of course be misinterpretations especially based off of one sentence answers. All you would of had to do is ask him a more detailed description of how it ended and easily came to a conclusion. Science based conclusions also make mistakes, but nothing is worth more than first hand experience.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Again, nowhere in the Portuguese text does it states that Edno ran away. @Dark Jaguar look at the Instagram comments scrolling a few pages back and tell us what it said since he won't believe my words.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Again, nowhere in the Portuguese text does it states that Edno ran away. @Dark Jaguar look at the Instagram comments scrolling a few pages back and tell us what it said since he won't believe my words.
I don´t believe your words, because two Brazilian people translated the text to me. Both separately not even knowing this case. One said, that it can be translated, that ran away, was kicked off or was evicted.
This is what other Brazilian wrote to me when I sent that text: "There was a couple together when a third one, another man arrived. That couple put this man to to run away from there even being much bigger"
Neither of these people didn´t know what that text was abot, that´s why this direct quote use the word man.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Just out of curiosity, what other answers do you need?
You see how it begins, the confrontation and the ending.
And unless you spoke with the guide directly and asked him specific questions, there can of course be misinterpretations especially based off of one sentence answers. All you would of had to do is ask him a more detailed description of how it ended and easily came to a conclusion. Science based conclusions also make mistakes, but nothing is worth more than first hand experience.
I think, that I answered already in my previous postings to things which you ask, so no need to repeat all.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Again, nowhere in the Portuguese text does it states that Edno ran away. @Dark Jaguar look at the Instagram comments scrolling a few pages back and tell us what it said since he won't believe my words.
I don´t believe your words, because two Brazilian people translated the text to me. Both separately not even knowing this case. One said, that it can be translated, that ran away, was kicked off or was evicted.
This is what other Brazilian wrote to me when I sent that text: "There was a couple together when a third one, another man arrived. That couple put this man to to run away from there even being much bigger"
Neither of these people didn´t know what that text was abot, that´s why this direct quote use the word man.
So you don´t speak Portuguese yourself then?
I do, you don't, so if you cannot accept what I'm saying then let's see Dark Jaguar's opinion.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Again, nowhere in the Portuguese text does it states that Edno ran away. @Dark Jaguar look at the Instagram comments scrolling a few pages back and tell us what it said since he won't believe my words.
I don´t believe your words, because two Brazilian people translated the text to me. Both separately not even knowing this case. One said, that it can be translated, that ran away, was kicked off or was evicted.
This is what other Brazilian wrote to me when I sent that text: "There was a couple together when a third one, another man arrived. That couple put this man to to run away from there even being much bigger"
Neither of these people didn´t know what that text was abot, that´s why this direct quote use the word man.
So you don´t speak Portuguese yourself then?
I do, you don't, so if you cannot accept what I'm saying then let's see Dark Jaguar's opinion.
You do? And still you disagree with two people, who I know 100% sure to be Brazilian, born there and living there, interesting. I know what @dark jaguar say because I have discussed with him too about this case privately.
When translating something here, it should be always honest, even if not liking the text. In this case if not liking the text, then blame to that guide, not to clear translations. As said, this can be translated in a bit different ways, but still that text tells overall, that Edno was made to go away. Now video show, that truth is more calm than what guide wrote, but there is no misunderstanding in it what text tells.
Without any photos or videos and knowledge which jaguars, based solely to that text we would be discussing here about a case in which a pair of jaguars forced bigger one to flee. If you deny it, then I have serious doubts about it, that do you really speak Portuguese.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Again, nowhere in the Portuguese text does it states that Edno ran away. @Dark Jaguar look at the Instagram comments scrolling a few pages back and tell us what it said since he won't believe my words.
I don´t believe your words, because two Brazilian people translated the text to me. Both separately not even knowing this case. One said, that it can be translated, that ran away, was kicked off or was evicted.
This is what other Brazilian wrote to me when I sent that text: "There was a couple together when a third one, another man arrived. That couple put this man to to run away from there even being much bigger"
Neither of these people didn´t know what that text was abot, that´s why this direct quote use the word man.
So you don´t speak Portuguese yourself then?
I do, you don't, so if you cannot accept what I'm saying then let's see Dark Jaguar's opinion.
You do? And still you disagree with two people, who I know 100% sure to be Brazilian, born there and living there, interesting. I know what @dark jaguar say because I have discussed with him too about this case privately.
When translating something here, it should be always honest, even if not liking the text. In this case if not liking the text, then blame to that guide, not to clear translations. As said, this can be translated in a bit different ways, but still that text tells overall, that Edno was made to go away. Now video show, that truth is more calm than what guide wrote, but there is no misunderstanding in it what text tells.
Without any photos or videos and knowledge which jaguars, based solely to that text we would be discussing here about a case in which a pair of jaguars forced bigger one to flee. If you deny it, then I have serious doubts about it, that do you really speak Portuguese.
There is nothing to "like", a translation is a translation. I said before that the grammar was not the best and yet one could deduct that NOWHERE in that comment did it say that the youngsters made Edno ran away. You don't speak Portuguese so you're not going to tell me what it does or doesn't say.
I don't have to prove anything on here when I have translated what videos in Portuguese have said in this forum before.
Dealing with a headstrong person like you is pointless, enjoy being wrong.
(11-06-2020, 06:31 PM)Balam Wrote: The first video shows Edno approaching the two siblings, gives more content of the interaction:
• I love how Edno comes out of the water and the two siblings appear unfazed while he approaches them, jaguars truly are the navy seals of the cat world.
• I don't think Edno had any intentions of mating with the young female, rather he approached them to investigate who they were. We don't know if the two siblings were inside his territory or whether they were close to it. My guess is that Edno wanted to establish himself as dominant over them but at the same time didn't see them as threat, so he wasn't too rough.
• I'm still amazed by the courage of this young female to face Edno the way she did.
Yes Balam I also think Edno's intention was for dominance porposes on the interaction as a warning to and let Daryl and Constantine know who's boss in that area.
He scent marked and walked away like a boss.
But Daryl and Constantine did really good on the interaction.
Nice that finally some footage from the end. Still odd, that no-one can put a bit longer clips, now it´s like a glimpse from here and there. It would be very interesting to see last minute or two unedited footage since it´s clear that someone has this whole interaction filmed. Youngsters did good nevertheless. Then again this again show why it´s always good to see video clips and not take for granted what guides tell. And if no real proof, guides aren´t too reliable sources, when they make big claims with no proof whatsoever, which happens quite often.
Even though it´s now clear, that Edno wasn´t running as guide told, I still wait if one day there is some decent video footage showing more than glimpses from here and there. Even after all seen so far now, this remains an interesting case with some blank spots..
It's all there, there are small gaps which are from uploading but it's easy enough to put 2 and 2 together.
-Edno swims up
-Female submits then male
-Edno swipes at female
-Edno makes a quick attack on the female then comes back to the male in which he submits
-Edno seems to see no threat, rolls over and rubs his body on the dirt
-Edno walks off marking territory
In regards to guides, you need to take translations with a grain of salt. They may explain things that don't necessarily translate perfectly and answering questions with a sentence or two on IG isn't the same as having a direct conversation and gaining clarity with follow up questions.
Nice that it´s all there for you, but I hope to see more to get some more answers, because this is very interesting incident and now shared glimpses give only part of the story and most important parts which I would like to see are missing.
What comes to guides, I always take their stories with grain of salt. Not translations which were in this case accurate. Guide said clearly, that Edno was kicked out/ran away. Nothing wrong in translation which I confirmed from two Brazilian people. Guides sometimes give weights which are very odd when comparing to known ones from scientific sources and so on. Also when people ask clarifications they can give "interesting" answers when comparing to it, what can be seen on video clips. It can be sometimes difficult for them to change their stories when they have already exaggerated something. That´s why I prefer always scientific sources most reliable with actual unedited filmings. Guides know a lot, but how accurate they are when they make claims is something else as this case showed once again at least partially.
But it looks like, that from this case new clips are shared every now and then, maybe soon whole incident can be watched from start to finish.
Again, nowhere in the Portuguese text does it states that Edno ran away. @Dark Jaguar look at the Instagram comments scrolling a few pages back and tell us what it said since he won't believe my words.
I don´t believe your words, because two Brazilian people translated the text to me. Both separately not even knowing this case. One said, that it can be translated, that ran away, was kicked off or was evicted.
This is what other Brazilian wrote to me when I sent that text: "There was a couple together when a third one, another man arrived. That couple put this man to to run away from there even being much bigger"
Neither of these people didn´t know what that text was abot, that´s why this direct quote use the word man.
So you don´t speak Portuguese yourself then?
I do, you don't, so if you cannot accept what I'm saying then let's see Dark Jaguar's opinion.
You do? And still you disagree with two people, who I know 100% sure to be Brazilian, born there and living there, interesting. I know what @dark jaguar say because I have discussed with him too about this case privately.
When translating something here, it should be always honest, even if not liking the text. In this case if not liking the text, then blame to that guide, not to clear translations. As said, this can be translated in a bit different ways, but still that text tells overall, that Edno was made to go away. Now video show, that truth is more calm than what guide wrote, but there is no misunderstanding in it what text tells.
Without any photos or videos and knowledge which jaguars, based solely to that text we would be discussing here about a case in which a pair of jaguars forced bigger one to flee. If you deny it, then I have serious doubts about it, that do you really speak Portuguese.
There is nothing to "like", a translation is a translation. I said before that the grammar was not the best and yet one could deduct that NOWHERE in that comment did it say that the youngsters made Edno ran away. You don't speak Portuguese so you're not going to tell me what it does or doesn't say.
I don't have to prove anything on here when I have translated what videos in Portuguese have said in this forum before.
Dealing with a headstrong person like you is pointless, enjoy being wrong.
Interesting, well luckily there are objective people to use for translations. I can say now frankly, that I double check your translations after this, when there are some Portuguese texts.
@Shadow then again I don't really care if you believe them or not. Thankfully we have further footage of the interaction which shows the completely opposite to the mistranslation you've been trying to push here. Nothing from the footage we have backs up your claims, interesting.
The following 1 user Likes Balam's post:1 user Likes Balam's post • Rage2277
(11-10-2020, 12:52 AM)Balam Wrote: @Shadow then again I don't really care if you believe them or not. Thankfully we have further footage of the interaction which shows the completely opposite to the mistranslation you've been trying to push here. Nothing from the footage we have backs up your claims, interesting.
People think translating from another language to English is just 1-1 but it's not.
A perfect example was translating Oncafari's description of Joker from Portuguese to English where it stated Joker was a "slender male" but that's not was stated in Portuguese. https://oncafari.org/en/animal/joker-en/
English https://oncafari.org/animal/joker/
Portuguese
Next is that the words may mean different things in one dialect to another.
(11-10-2020, 12:52 AM)Balam Wrote: @Shadow then again I don't really care if you believe them or not. Thankfully we have further footage of the interaction which shows the completely opposite to the mistranslation you've been trying to push here. Nothing from the footage we have backs up your claims, interesting.
Thing here is now contradiction with it, what this guide told and what can be seen on available footage so far. Also @Dark Jaguar confirmed that translation which I told when I discussed with him privately.
Main point now is, that even though there can be disagreements about things which happen, translations should be always honest. If you really speak Portuguese and disagree with three other people who speak Portuguese it really makes to think that what is the thing there. Contradiction isn´t in between the text that guide wrote and how it has been translated. Contradiction can be seen in between what guide told and what can be seen in available video clips.
I understand, that you are passionate what comes to jaguars, but now with this text and what it means you might need to calm down a bit and think.
there's no conspiracy here, no blank spots what happened in the vid is exactly what i stated before, he dominated two subadults and left the area it's nothing extraordinary and out of the norm..like at what point did he ran this just shows how inaccurate google translate can be he was literally shown swimming across the river to engage made his message clear, a went on his way i can't believe there was even a debate of what happened to begin with this was so easy to deduce, even with the prior limited footage.
(11-10-2020, 12:52 AM)Balam Wrote: @Shadow then again I don't really care if you believe them or not. Thankfully we have further footage of the interaction which shows the completely opposite to the mistranslation you've been trying to push here. Nothing from the footage we have backs up your claims, interesting.
People think translating from another language to English is just 1-1 but it's not.
A perfect example was translating Oncafari's description of Joker from Portuguese to English where it stated Joker was a "slender male" but that's not was stated in Portuguese. https://oncafari.org/en/animal/joker-en/
English https://oncafari.org/animal/joker/
Portuguese
Next is that the words may mean different things in one dialect to another.
Correct, when translating common terms to a different language the context matters. In that comment the verb "run" which is "correr" was used, but it was not say that the youngster made him run, I interpret it as Edno rushing towards them, and it's hard to deduct what exactly the guide meant in details as his grammar and punctuation was not the best.
11-10-2020, 02:10 AM( This post was last modified: 11-10-2020, 02:11 AM by Shadow )
(11-10-2020, 01:52 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: there's no conspiracy here, no blank spots what happened in the vid is exactly what i stated before, he dominated two subadults and left the area it's nothing extraordinary and out of the norm..like at what point did he ran this just shows how inaccurate google translate can be he was literally shown swimming across the river to engage made his message clear, a went on his way i can't believe there was even a debate of what happened to begin with this was so easy to deduce, even with the prior limited footage.
This is not about google translation what comes to the text. If you pay a little bit attention to previous postings you can see, that I have written, that I have three Brazilian people who speak Portuguese as native language, who all translate the text so, that Edno ran away or was kicked off or evicted, however different people want to express it, when one flees.
I hope, that this is now crystal clear, that this translation which I have told isn´t based on google translator, even though also google translator makes same translation.
What comes to video clips and what can be seen is then another thing. As is it, that what guide tells and what can be seen so far from these short clips are in contradiction at least partially if not completely. That´s why I hope to see whole incident on video one day, not just glimpses from here and there.
But you can forget google translator, because it wasn´t used as primary source for translation, primary source were Brazilian people.
11-10-2020, 02:33 AM( This post was last modified: 11-10-2020, 02:34 AM by Rage2277 )
(11-10-2020, 02:10 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 01:52 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: there's no conspiracy here, no blank spots what happened in the vid is exactly what i stated before, he dominated two subadults and left the area it's nothing extraordinary and out of the norm..like at what point did he ran this just shows how inaccurate google translate can be he was literally shown swimming across the river to engage made his message clear, a went on his way i can't believe there was even a debate of what happened to begin with this was so easy to deduce, even with the prior limited footage.
This is not about google translation what comes to the text. If you pay a little bit attention to previous postings you can see, that I have written, that I have three Brazilian people who speak Portuguese as native language, who all translate the text so, that Edno ran away or was kicked off or evicted, however different people want to express it, when one flees.
I hope, that this is now crystal clear, that this translation which I have told isn´t based on google translator, even though also google translator makes same translation.
What comes to video clips and what can be seen is then another thing. As is it, that what guide tells and what can be seen so far from these short clips are in contradiction at least partially if not completely. That´s why I hope to see whole incident on video one day, not just glimpses from here and there.
But you can forget google translator, because it wasn´t used as primary source for translation, primary source were Brazilian people.
the footage coudn't be anymore clear as to what occurred there isn't anything missing not sure what you're looking for..i guess in their minds and yours the youngsters not leaving and edno casually walking off marking as he goes is him backing out or that this interaction was some sort of victory for the subadults.
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