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Jaguar and Leopard are same!!
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These images have some clarity regarding cats evolution in a broad way. Panthera evolved in and around Himalayas in Asia .... Snow and Clouded leopard proves it(still lives here). So it is obvious that ONE panthera crossed from North China to Alaska to South America and evolved Jaguar. I called it as Leopard with dots.
First scientist said lion and leopard separated once ,Jag is different ...... 2 image proves lion and jaguar are separated once,leopard is different,with some confusion my points are still valid Jag==Leopard with dots.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
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You love this statement "b) Lion,Jag and Leopard (for me, jag is leopard with some dots!)" But for whatever reason you deny or over simplify the other differences First is behavioral differences: -Jaguars love water, leopards hate it. -Leopards climb trees often, jaguars very rarely do. -Leopards are notoriously aggressive towards people, jaguars aren't -Jaguar aren't as adaptable as Leopards when it comes to habitat. Next is Morphological Differences S. African Leopard  *This image is copyright of its original author Pantanal Jaguar / Venezuelan  *This image is copyright of its original author If taking the Maximums from each species here are the differences Body Measurements: The Leopard would have a Head and body length of 49'' with a Tail length of 36'' and a TL of 85'' The Jaguar would have a Head and body length of 66'' with a Tail length of 31'' and a TL of 97'' A jaguar has a much longer body with a much shorter Tail compared to a much shorter body with a much longer tail for the Leopard. Body Weight: Male Leopard Max 79kgs Male Jaguar Max 121kgs No leopard has ever weighed over 100kgs in the wild other than one persian leopard with a paw removed that weighed 115kg. Jaguars regularly weigh over 100kgs and the 121kg mark isn't even the highest you can find, there are a few 130kg plus verified weights as well. Before you say "jaguars are larger because they are the apex predator, realize that Sri Lankan leopard are under the same conditions and they have never come close to that weight, in fact, from a very reliable eye witness, they aren't even larger than african leopards. Skeletal Differences Skulls Leopards  *This image is copyright of its original author Jaguars  *This image is copyright of its original author Max Leopard Skull Length 9.8'' inches Max Jaguar Skull Length 11.9'' inches Max Leopard Skull Width 6'' inches Max Jaguar Skull Width 8'' inches Data is minimum on leopard skulls but feel free to add more of them, I can add more Jaguars as well. I'm sure @GrizzlyClaws can go much further in depth as well and with regards to canines too. African Leopard  *This image is copyright of its original author 9 ½" L x 5 ½" W x 4 ½" H 23.7L x 14.3W x 10.9H (cm) Jaguar  *This image is copyright of its original author 10 ½" L x 7" W x 5" H 26.4L x 17.9W x 12.1H (cm) and obviously their skeletal structure is very different as well  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Last is their DNA, which is identifiable from one another. "The genotype is the part (DNA sequence) of the genetic makeup of a cell, and therefore of an organism or individual, which determines a specific characteristic (phenotype) of that cell/organism/individual.[1] Genotype is one of three factors that determine phenotype, the other two being inherited epigenetic factors, and non-inherited environmental factors." They can even determine the genetic makeup between Jaguars from different locations "Habitat loss and fragmentation are important threats to carnivores worldwide, and can be especially intense for large predators. Jaguars have already been extirpated from over half of their original area of distribution, and few regions still maintain large populations. For these, detailed understanding is crucial for setting appropriate recovery targets in impacted areas. The Pantanal is among the best examples of a region with a large jaguar population in a healthy environment. Here, we analyzed 12 microsatellite loci to characterize genetic diversity and population structure of 52 jaguars sampled in 4 localities of the southern Pantanal, and compared them with prior studies of heavily fragmented populations of the Atlantic Forest. Although we observed some internal structure among the Pantanal localities, our results indicated that this area comprises a single population with high genetic variability. Moreover, our comparative analyses supported the hypothesis that the strong population structure observed in the Atlantic Forest derives from recent, anthropogenic fragmentation. We also observed significant but low levels of genetic differentiation between the Pantanal and Atlantic Forest populations, indicating recent connectivity between jaguars occurring in these biomes. Evidence for admixture between the Pantanal and a population on the western boundary of the Atlantic Forest corroborates the transitional nature of the latter area, where the jaguar population has already been extirpated. Our results can be used to understand jaguar population dynamics in a region that is less disturbed than the Atlantic forest, and to support the design of conservation strategies that maintain and restore natural connectivity among currently isolated areas." http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content...1/503.full I am confused with your strong stance on the subject, that is all. (11-22-2016, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: @ -Jaguars love water, leopards hate it. .................. Do you want me to post leopard hunting fish in mud-waters in Africa?? Common, i know you are a experienced guy.Jaguars hunt in water because they live with caiman (small crocs) and leopards hates water because they live with Nile crocodiles.Mugger and salt water crocs in Asia. -Leopards climb trees often, jaguars very rarely do. ................... Simple, leopards live with Lions/Tigers,Wild dogs,Wolves and Hyena packs.They have no choice but live like monkeys on trees unlike Jag which is Apex predators in South America forests. -Leopards are notoriously aggressive towards people, jaguars aren't ........... Entire America has 14000 Jag where as only India has 14000+ Leopards.So Pressure and casualties high in Asia (and in Africa- half million+). Leopards are not aggressive, they are simple cats, afraid of big man and hunt kids or crouched men,mistaken them as kids or animals.Actually leopards are cool cats afraid of humans. -Jaguar aren't as adaptable as Leopards when it comes to habitat .......... What does it mean?? Original is always original, that is why leopards happily adaptable in living along with Lions/Tigers,Wild dogs,Wolves and Hyena packs but Jaguars are not.  ============= For ex: 120 kg Sumatran Tiger is not a different species from 222kg Bengal tiger even-though it has dark color coat,thick stripes and half the weight of Bengal. Forget about Sumatran even Sundarban (avg 110kg) mangrove tigers may vary in every aspect but they are 100% Bengal tigers. 1. I think you knew one Indian leopard weighted 108 kg (Balaji) in wild was captured in the past. 2.See skulls of two cats, same to same.You can check small two holes below the canines. The differences in sizes is like Bengals,Sunderban and Sumatran Tigers. 3. DNA is sure about Lion,Jag and Leopards are evolved from one subspecies. ============== @tigerluver i didn't find any reason behind sudden extinction of so-called cave-lions (Human ... na) even though wolves and deer happily exists till now. BTW there is no border b/w Europe and Asia but miraculously in all cave lions images there is clear border b/w Asiatic lions and cave lions in Eurasia continent.Funny. 2.If they are true(100% sure they are not) they are extinct already.So i close my case here. 3. Recently they found two cave lion cubs carcasses, if they extracted DNA from it hope they recreates them.Then you/we don't need to prove any one.
"-Jaguars love water, leopards hate it. .................. Do you want me to post leopard hunting fish in mud-waters in Africa?? Common, i know you are a experienced guy.Jaguars hunt in water because they live with caiman (small crocs) and leopards hates water because they live with Nile crocodiles.Mugger and salt water crocs in Asia. "
This is incorrect, in captivity it is the same. Tigers and Jaguars are always drawn to the water, they seek it out even on colder days. Just look at Black Jaguar White Tiger, he says time and time again, jags and tigers are the ones who love the water, the rest do not. Caimans also can grow quite large, comparable to Muggers, especially Black Caimans and Sunderban Tigers love the water and share it with the largest croc species in the world. Exceptions aren't the rule. "-Jaguar aren't as adaptable as Leopards when it comes to habitat .......... What does it mean?? Original is always original, that is why leopards happily adaptable in living along with Lions/Tigers,Wild dogs,Wolves and Hyena packs but Jaguars are not. Lion,Jag and Leopards are evolved from one subspecies. " What I mean is that jaguars haven't been able to adapt to metro life, the Leopard has been by far the most successful in this transition, most likely due to it's to ability to hide high up during the day, dragging prey there as well, the jaguar doesn't possess this ability. "3. DNA is sure about [color=#000000]Lion,Jag and Leopards are evolved from one subspecies. " What's your point? By this logic, a Hippo and Whale are the same. "2.See skulls of two cats, same to same.You can check small two holes below the canines. The differences in sizes is like Bengals,Sunderban and Sumatran Tigers." Not true at all, differences in skulls are small, even between lions and tigers, you must study them before you make these claims. They offer numerous differences, Skull size (width and length) canine length and robustness  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author You don't notice the difference between the two? The steep slope in the maxilla frontal area, difference in rostrum length, canine differences, the much denser and wider skull table and overall size differences to name a few. "1. I think you knew one Indian leopard weighted 108 kg (Balaji) in wild was captured in the past. " I highly doubt it, I haven't seen anything on this leopard. Weights, body measurements, capture method, etc. And still, that weight is the exception, not the rule and it's nothing special for a Jaguar. "For ex: 120 kg Sumatran Tiger is not a different species from 222kg Bengal tiger even-though it has dark color coat,thick stripes and half the weight of Bengal. Forget about Sumatran even Sundarban (avg 110kg) mangrove tigers may vary in every aspect but they are 100% Bengal tigers." Sunderban Tigers are classified as Bengals but even that is debatable but in regards to Sumatran compared to Bengals, they are different subspecies, just like a leopard has different subspecies, jaguar, lion and more. It seems as though every time data and proof is presented, you deny it or simply change arguments. The burden of proof is on you, if you have actual evidence proving these experts wrong, you should present it, instead of simplified opinions that seem to have ulterior motives behind them...Like a personal preference towards a particular animal. This obviously proves that the differences between the Jaguar and Leopard are a bit more than "a couple of dots."
^^ Already open a thread for this.These are my points
http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-jaguar-a...d-are-same Color : Almost Same Body structure : Almost Same (Jag little bigger) Weight : Almost Same (Jag little bigger) Melanin : Same (Note: Not in any-other Cats) If necessary both cats can hunt in water Coat : Only difference is few dots Indian leopards are mostly stick to trees like monkeys unlike Persian and lankan leopards which are ALPHA in their region and little bigger.Same goes to Jaguars,because of almost zero competition in South America Leopards became little bigger and now they are called as Jaguars. Jaguars loves water... WTF is this.They hunt small croc caiman in water unlike tigers who cool off in water for hours. You may take decisions based on 1 or 2 skulls,i cant.Those both skulls look same to me except jag skull is little big like Bengal and Sunderban tigers. 
Posts regarding this discussion are moved here as they do not belong in the freak felids thread.
^^ Already open a thread for this.These are my points
http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-jaguar-a...d-are-same Color : Almost Same = Different Body structure : Almost Same (Jag little bigger) = Different (skulls, back bone arch, body length and limb length) Weight : Almost Same (Jag little bigger) = Different Melanin : Same (Note: Not in any-other Cats) = Tigers and Lions can have white coats so they must be the same? Black Cougar  *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author http://karlshuker.blogspot.com/2012/08/t...ating.html If necessary both cats can hunt in water Coat : Only difference is few dots Indian leopards are mostly stick to trees like monkeys unlike Persian and lankan leopards which are ALPHA in their region and little bigger.Same goes to Jaguars,because of almost zero competition in South America Leopards became little bigger and now they are called as Jaguars. Jaguars loves water... WTF is this.They hunt small croc caiman in water unlike tigers who cool off in water for hours. You may take decisions based on 1 or 2 skulls,i cant.Those both skulls look same to me except jag skull is little big like Bengal and Sunderban tigers. "If necessary both cats can hunt in water" Only one seeks out water, the other uses it as a last resort. "Indian leopards are mostly stick to trees like monkeys unlike Persian and lankan leopards which are ALPHA in their region and little bigger.Same goes to Jaguars,because of almost zero competition in South America Leopards became little bigger and now they are called as Jaguars." Sri Lankan leopards are said to be smaller than African Leopards, little actually data exhists on Persian leopard size as well as it being a different sub species. "Jaguars loves water... WTF is this.They hunt small croc caiman in water unlike tigers who cool off in water for hours." I don't know what to make of this. Jaguars and Tigers love water, this is common knowledge. Look at every single video from https://www.facebook.com/jaguarandtiger/?fref=ts notice that every single video when there is water involved, you will always see tigers and jaguars in it, you will never see lions or leopards. Then if you search enough, you'll see him talking about it all the time. So yes, tigers do like to cool off in water, they also seek it out if its cold outside, if they have prey, pretty much any time they can find it, Same with a jag. We all know that is not the way Leopards and Lions feel about water, no matter where they live, if they are the apex predator or not, this never changes.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author "You may take decisions based on 1 or 2 skulls,i cant.Those both skulls look same to me except jag skull is little big like Bengal and Sunderban tigers. " I use their skulls to compare, a lot more than 1 or two, you can find skull measurements for a lot of them. The images are used to show you the differences not seen in measurements. 
Leopard and Panthera crassidens (the common ancestor of lion and jaguar) coexisted since 3.5 million years ago in Africa and probably diverged way before that.
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Said already because of Nile Corc's in Africa and Mugger and Salt water Croc's in Asia Leopards afraid of water where as Leopard with dots enjoy hunting small croc caiman. See leopards hunt in water.
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author This is your proof?? Worst editing of the century  *This image is copyright of its original author Color : Almost Same = Different =NO Body structure : Almost Same (Jag little bigger) = Different (skulls, back bone arch, body length and limb length) = Small adaptation Weight : Almost Same (Jag little bigger) = Different = No Melanin : Same (Note: Not in any-other Cats) = Tigers and Lions can have white coats so they must be the same? =White Tiger still has stripes.
OMG Jaguars in India!!
I HEREBY DECLARE THIS MY TERRITORY Male Leopard Scent Marking Bandipur Tiger Reserve November 2016  *This image is copyright of its original author Ha ha ha..... See 'few DOTS' inside Indian leopard rosette(ring)    *This image is copyright of its original author
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About the rose-spots, jaguars usually have thicker spots with larger diameters inside their rosettes. Some leopard subspecies (or individuals even) might have spots inside their rosettes, but these spots are quite miniscule in size and not as large as those of the jaguar. |
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