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Pckts · 04-07-2014, 11:44 PM

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Jaguars

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Leopards

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Cougars

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More Jaguars

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Some big leopards

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Jubatus · 06-30-2014, 09:45 PM

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This is the impressive Mick Jaguar, He is said to weight 127 kgs! He is most famous for his amazing caiman hunt last year!

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Amnon242 · 08-25-2014, 06:52 PM

Fascinating animals...

Pckts · 08-25-2014, 11:00 PM

Indeed, Jaguar are the most unknown of the big 4 IMO.
This thread must of originally been about big cats outside of lions and tigers, thats why the images of leopards and cougars are here.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.

Amnon242 · 08-31-2014, 05:17 PM

(08-25-2014, 11:00 PM)Pckts Wrote: Indeed, Jaguar are the most unknown of the big 4 IMO.
This thread must of originally been about big cats outside of lions and tigers, thats why the images of leopards and cougars are here.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I don´t want to start any "vs" debate, but I´d say that jaguar would be able to repell the attack of tiger or lion...not to win, but to defend himself.

Pckts · 09-01-2014, 12:52 AM

(08-31-2014, 05:17 PM)'Amnon242' Wrote:
(08-25-2014, 11:00 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Indeed, Jaguar are the most unknown of the big 4 IMO.
This thread must of originally been about big cats outside of lions and tigers, thats why the images of leopards and cougars are here.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I don´t want to start any "vs" debate, but I´d say that jaguar would be able to repell the attack of tiger or lion...not to win, but to defend himself.

No disagreement on my side.
Jags are quoted as being absolutely nasty individuals. I think the size of a L or T male would probably just be too much, but a sub adult Male L or T vs a large territory holding Jag, my money would be on the Jag as well.
They are brutes

Apollo · 09-01-2014, 06:07 AM

(08-31-2014, 05:17 PM)'Amnon242' Wrote:
(08-25-2014, 11:00 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Indeed, Jaguar are the most unknown of the big 4 IMO.
This thread must of originally been about big cats outside of lions and tigers, thats why the images of leopards and cougars are here.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I don´t want to start any "vs" debate, but I´d say that jaguar would be able to repell the attack of tiger or lion...not to win, but to defend himself.

You got to be joking
Tiger vs Jaguar = Dead Jaguar

*This image is copyright of its original author

Pantherinae · 09-01-2014, 06:33 AM

@Apollo

not nessecaeraly true, neiather in strength or size does a jaguar stand a chance against a male lion/tiger, and he would stand no chance in a fight to death, but that he could have sucseded defending himself there's no doubt about! A leopard killing a tigress, male leopards surviveing attacks from several Lions, a large jaguar male almost twize The weight of an Indian male leopard, would walk out of a fight with a male lion/tiger alive more often then not IMO, but only by defending not by fighting!

Amnon242 · 09-01-2014, 10:34 AM

(09-01-2014, 06:07 AM)Apollo Wrote:
(08-31-2014, 05:17 PM)'Amnon242' Wrote:
(08-25-2014, 11:00 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Indeed, Jaguar are the most unknown of the big 4 IMO.
This thread must of originally been about big cats outside of lions and tigers, thats why the images of leopards and cougars are here.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I don´t want to start any "vs" debate, but I´d say that jaguar would be able to repell the attack of tiger or lion...not to win, but to defend himself.

You got to be joking
Tiger vs Jaguar = Dead Jaguar

*This image is copyright of its original author

Good image...but I still think that jaguar would be able to defend himself quite often.

Apollo · 09-01-2014, 01:50 PM

(09-01-2014, 06:33 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Apollo

not nessecaeraly true, neiather in strength or size does a jaguar stand a chance against a male lion/tiger, and he would stand no chance in a fight to death, but that he could have sucseded defending himself there's no doubt about! A leopard killing a tigress, male leopards surviveing attacks from several Lions, a large jaguar male almost twize The weight of an Indian male leopard, would walk out of a fight with a male lion/tiger alive more often then not IMO, but only by defending not by fighting!

At first that tigress was a cub, comparing a young subadult tigress with adult male leopard doesnt make sense. We also dont know the status of that cub before that incident. Why the subadult was out on her own without her mother's protection in the first place. Most importantly youngsters will lack the skills, courage and experience when facing an opponent. There are many subadult males (tigers and lions) being dominated by adult females eventhough the males are much bigger.

Regarding the 4 lionesses and the male leopard and 3 lionesses vs leopard, if those lionesses really wanted to kill those leopards, they could have done it in seconds. But they were not totally into killing.

These kind of incidents are unusually rare events and not the norm, its like saying that one warthog stood against a lioness and thus warthogs can defend against lions and a female cheetah stood her ground against an adult male lion, wildebeest stood against lions etc etc.

The norm is these animals will be killed plain and simple. And no jaguar can walkout of a fight against male tiger or male lion. In general if there is a fight the jaguar will either be killed by the male tiger/male lion or will just run for its life and try to hide or climb a tree. This is not defending or repelling, its just running for its life. Even cheetahs, leopards and some small cats will do this.

Amnon242 · 09-01-2014, 02:32 PM

(09-01-2014, 01:50 PM)Apollo Wrote:
(09-01-2014, 06:33 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Apollo

not nessecaeraly true, neiather in strength or size does a jaguar stand a chance against a male lion/tiger, and he would stand no chance in a fight to death, but that he could have sucseded defending himself there's no doubt about! A leopard killing a tigress, male leopards surviveing attacks from several Lions, a large jaguar male almost twize The weight of an Indian male leopard, would walk out of a fight with a male lion/tiger alive more often then not IMO, but only by defending not by fighting!

At first that tigress was a cub, comparing a young subadult tigress with adult male leopard doesnt make sense. We also dont know the status of that cub before that incident. Why the subadult was out on her own without her mother's protection in the first place. Most importantly youngsters will lack the skills, courage and experience when facing an opponent. There are many subadult males (tigers and lions) being dominated by adult females eventhough the males are much bigger.

Regarding the 4 lionesses and the male leopard and 3 lionesses vs leopard, if those lionesses really wanted to kill those leopards, they could have done it in seconds. But they were not totally into killing.

These kind of incidents are unusually rare events and not the norm, its like saying that one warthog stood against a lioness and thus warthogs can defend against lions and a female cheetah stood her ground against an adult male lion, wildebeest stood against lions etc etc.

The norm is these animals will be killed plain and simple. And no jaguar can walkout of a fight against male tiger or male lion. In general if there is a fight the jaguar will either be killed by the male tiger/male lion or will just run for its life and try to hide or climb a tree. This is not defending or repelling, its just running for its life. Even cheetahs, leopards and some small cats will do this.

I think it´s not that easy. For instance I know about a case when male leopard successfully repelled an attack of a male lion (lion had to be treated by vet). Yes, Lion is much bigger and if he really wanted to kill the leopard, he would be succesfull. But in that case the lion didn´t need to kill the leopard, he could back off - he lost nothing. But the leopard was fighting for his life. There is a difference in motivation. Lion could kill the leopard, but probably with some injuries...and for him it was better to back off and avoid further injuries then to kill the leopard.

Once again: if lion/tiger really wanted to kill a jaguar (even with injuries), the jaguar would stand a little chance - there is no dispute.

Pantherinae · 09-01-2014, 06:35 PM

@Apollo

the tigress killed by The leopard was 4 years...she was indipendent and had left her mother.

Yeah that's what I'm saying if they fight Often The jaguar will sucseded defending himself. Like The leopard against those lionesses yes they could have killed The leopard easy, but they never did because The leopard fought very well and sucseded in Defending. Jaguars would probably also be able to do The same, with even greater strength and size.

As You say Lions and tigers are superior amongst The cat's in strength and size,and would kill any other cat if they where going for it,but very rarely they do so, and Often cat's like leopards will be able to defend himself by laying on his back with all four paws. You can't compare a cheetah vs lion fight with a leopard vs lion fight... Cheetah would be killed 99% of The time

Amnon242 · 09-01-2014, 06:58 PM

(09-01-2014, 06:07 AM)Apollo Wrote:
(08-31-2014, 05:17 PM)'Amnon242' Wrote:
(08-25-2014, 11:00 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Indeed, Jaguar are the most unknown of the big 4 IMO.
This thread must of originally been about big cats outside of lions and tigers, thats why the images of leopards and cougars are here.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I don´t want to start any "vs" debate, but I´d say that jaguar would be able to repell the attack of tiger or lion...not to win, but to defend himself.

You got to be joking
Tiger vs Jaguar = Dead Jaguar

*This image is copyright of its original author

btw I really like this picture, do you have more info on this?

Apollo · 09-01-2014, 07:22 PM

(09-01-2014, 06:35 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Apollo

the tigress killed by The leopard was 4 years...she was indipendent and had left her mother.

Yeah that's what I'm saying if they fight Often The jaguar will sucseded defending himself. Like The leopard against those lionesses yes they could have killed The leopard easy, but they never did because The leopard fought very well and sucseded in Defending. Jaguars would probably also be able to do The same, with even greater strength and size.

As You say Lions and tigers are superior amongst The cat's in strength and size,and would kill any other cat if they where going for it,but very rarely they do so, and Often cat's like leopards will be able to defend himself by laying on his back with all four paws. You can't compare a cheetah vs lion fight with a leopard vs lion fight... Cheetah would be killed 99% of The time

That tigress was no way a 4 year old, It was way too small for that and it was just a cub ( a very young subadult). I clearly told you that you cannot use a subadult against an adult.

Again you are just using a single account and making a theory by yourself and ignoring all the rest of the accounts which says otherwise. Killing by male tigers/male lions of other cats is not a rare event, 99% of the times there will be a dead cat if it tries to defend or repell a male tiger/ male lion by facing it. Thats why leopards, cheetahs etc will run at the site of a male tiger/male lion without trying to defend or repel them, because they know they cant repell an attack from male tiger/male lion. Its just that simple.

Amnon242 · 09-01-2014, 07:32 PM

(09-01-2014, 07:22 PM)Apollo Wrote:
(09-01-2014, 06:35 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Apollo

the tigress killed by The leopard was 4 years...she was indipendent and had left her mother.

Yeah that's what I'm saying if they fight Often The jaguar will sucseded defending himself. Like The leopard against those lionesses yes they could have killed The leopard easy, but they never did because The leopard fought very well and sucseded in Defending. Jaguars would probably also be able to do The same, with even greater strength and size.

As You say Lions and tigers are superior amongst The cat's in strength and size,and would kill any other cat if they where going for it,but very rarely they do so, and Often cat's like leopards will be able to defend himself by laying on his back with all four paws. You can't compare a cheetah vs lion fight with a leopard vs lion fight... Cheetah would be killed 99% of The time

That tigress was no way a 4 year old, It was way too small for that and it was just a cub ( a very young subadult). I clearly told you that you cannot use a subadult against an adult.

Again you are just using a single account and making a theory by yourself and ignoring all the rest of the accounts which says otherwise. Killing by male tigers/male lions of other cats is not a rare event, 99% of the times there will be a dead cat if it tries to defend or repell a male tiger/ male lion by facing it. Thats why leopards, cheetahs etc will run at the site of a male tiger/male lion without trying to defend or repel them, because they know they cant repell an attack from male tiger/male lion. Its just that simple.

Well...they logically prefer to run and avoid the confrontation...but that doesn´t mean, that they are not able to repell the attack. And we are talking about jaguars, who - as I belive - are considerably more dangerous than leopards.

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