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History's most brutal killers, the Majingilane Male Lions
History's most brutal killers, the Majingilane Male Lions
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History's most brutal killers, the Majingilane Male Lions
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A video on the boys
Someone asked me to post this:"The Majingilane male lions rival the mapogo in savagery"
Now, while I don't care about his motivation, because he's just testing me, I wanted to know your opinion on this. There is no doubt about the outcome of the rivalry between both coalitions, the Majingilane dominated the Mapogos in the long run. But I think there is more than just this. The thread is named in this way so, my question is: How would you measure the "savagery" of male lions, not only of the Majingilane but also considering other coalitions? 
I agree Majingilane where leader in Lion world when it comes to Savagery. This is the reason they become famous worldwide. But Mapogo where also at same level of savagery. I have heard they have killed more than 60 lions.
Majingilane got edge over Mapogos because of luck, better strategy and better relation among them. As per my knowledge, I think other lion coalitions like Notches, Mars and any other coalitions never went to that extent of Savagery. Off course male lions are most brutal when compared to any other Animals for their own kinds. After reading and knowing about Majis and mapogo, I stunned and found it similar to human savagery that sometime occur for money, land, girls and property. I also think the story of Majis and mapogo also help to understand the extreme unknown behavior of lions or may be other big cats too. Or it may be sign that Right now, Lion social structure is going through some evolution. It would be interesting to know and discuss this behavior of lions. May be @vizions can put some light regarding this.  (06-11-2015, 08:42 AM)'Majingilane' Wrote: Someone asked me to post this:"The Majingilane male lions rival the mapogo in savagery"Savagery is a human characteristic Whats more "savage?" A mother killing a prey species then taking the prey species orphaned child back to let her kids play/learn on it? A coalition teaming up on a lone lion, ripping its genitals out and slowly killing it? A lion purposly breaking a hyennas back but not killing it so it can suffer a slow death? and the list can go on and on. The wild is without our human morals, the minute we begun to put them on it we lose sight of what separates domestication from the wild. Every animal does something we may call "savage" but to that animal, its simply life. There is no right or wrong, no "higher power" to judge no public shaming, Its just life.
I know. That's why I said that there is a lot of ways to qualify this. We use a lot of human terms to explain animal behaviours, and that's why we call a lion "brave" or "bravely stupid" when he stand his ground against several opponents instead of running.
What I was thinking is that there are several ways to qualify this. For example, if we measure it from the killing of a rival male, the tape of the four Majingilane killing Kinky tail gets the prize, and people hate them for this, even when the Mapogos themselves were 'guilty' of the same acts all over again in their 5 year reign. Now, if we talk about the killing of females, sub-adults or cubs, again the Mapogos were known for doing this, at such point were its said that, despite provinding "formidable viewing and photographic opportunities, undoubtedly serving as a huge attraction to a multitude of guests wishing to view and photograph lions of such infamy, but from a species survival point of view, they have done unmentionable damage to the breeding and survival ecology of the lion species in the Sabi Sand Wildtuin, thereby affecting the total African lion population. Of the original 62 Lions that were present in the Western Sector when they arrived, there are now only 3 origionals left, all belonging to the Ximungwe pride."(in 2012, after Mr.T died)  (06-11-2015, 08:42 AM)'Majingilane' Wrote: Someone asked me to post this:"The Majingilane male lions rival the mapogo in savagery" Your posts say you're interested in lions in general and coalitions in particular. You posted a lot of good information that was much appreciated. After continuing in this way for some time, you will become kind of a specialist. Ideas no doubt will come to mind. Your ideas about lion coalitions, I mean. This maybe is the time to start using them if you want to find answers to the questions you raised. Maybe you can get to an idea that can be tested in some way. Let's say it develops into a hypothesis about the reason for and the function of coalitions. Try to get as precise as possible, as a hypothesis is about the ability to use it for predictions. In order to get there, you got to read as much as you can. When you think your idea is accurate, it has to be tested. Try do demolish your hypothesis in every possible way yourself first. If not, others will. When it still stands after testing, the time for analogy has arrived. Maybe you can learn a bit by comparing lions to humans or wolves. Humans would be my pick, because we also are predators in some way. Furthermore, we also have coalitions. What do you see? If humans get to coalitions in order to get to control, what is the object? What is the method used? And what happens when one coalition develops into a big and powerful entity over time? When you're done and the hypothesis still stands, the time to contact the Lion Spirit has come. I mean Packer. They always ask him about chest girths and things like that, but most come up empty. The reason is Packer isn't interested in these things. He's interested in something else and my guess is coalitions could be a part of it. If there's one biologist who's willing to communicate about lions and theories, it's Packer. Talk to him about your ideas and your hypothesis. He's the best. Use the opportunity. You know my trade is tigers. I read everything available and know sexual drive is important. Same for lions, I think. Why is it things got out of hand in Sabi? Was a limit crossed? When humans get to unlimited power, everything can happen. In most cases, it isn't good. Complete civilisations have been wiped out by those unable to use power in a constructive way. Maybe lions are not that different from us. Or the other way round. If young bull elephants get to unlimited power because they are not trained and checked by older animals, they could and sometimes will kill other animals. Lion coalitions are about power and control. Most coalitions consist of 2-3 males. Just suppose one has four young adults who survive all storms. One day, they will get control. Than a coalition of five pops up out of nowhere. They destroy the coalition of four and expand their kingdom. Then a coalition of six appears. Maybe they are not as powerful at the level of individuals. In order to get control, they need to stay together and defeat their opponents in every possible way. What we perceive as cruelty could be the only option for the six male lions. If not, it (total destructrion of their enemies) could be a result unrestricted power. If a coalition remains unbeaten, they could start acting in a similar way as we do. If so, the coalition of six might destroy their own world. My guess is it happened before. My advice is to give it a try. You're interested and qualified. The forum needs posters with good info, good ideas and interesting posts. You could even start your own coalition. We've got good lion posters. I'm sure they're interested. Good luck,  *This image is copyright of its original author
Thank you for the kind words, @peter and for the advice.
And you're right. I like lions in general, but I'm really interested in coalitions of males and how the individuals work and live with each other. It's funny that you mention the comparison between lions and humans, because I do that, in both ways. Sometimes to explain some behaviour I try to draw some analogy between us and them. And I agree, they are much like us. And we are very much like them.. So thank you again. I'm an avid reader and I'll try to help the forum in the small way I can with info about lions. 
@TheLioness , Its long time since you post, How are you? How is your new born ?
Yeah I've been meaning to post for awhile, I do come on and read though, its such an informative site and I love the good reads. I've been rather busy we recently moved, my son is 9 months old now. I'll post a picture of him in the topic I made for him when he was born.
Thanks for asking, I am fine by the way, loving motherhood. Has been a wonderful time. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
A couple of videos I found of the lads, dated April 20th 2011
The first one is the Am drive of the wildearth safari and features, when he gets close, the Golden Mane male. It's interesting to hear his description of the males, how their manes and fur feels to the touch. The next one is the Pm drive, the same day. Here, Tara founds the Golden Mane male again bathing himself before crashing to the ground to sleep(I can't help to find it funny everytime a lion does that jaja). Then, at night, they found the four Majingilane together, an amazing sight of this powerful males and quite the interesting detail. At one point, they pass her vehicle, and we can see the dominance hierarchy between them. Dark mane and Hip Scar on the front, Golden Mane deliberately stops, letting them pass and Scar Nose on the back of the patrol party. And then they go, patrolling the borders of their territory and telling everyone around that they are the kings. Enjoy.
It seems there was an encounter, after all.
It wasn't serious, at least that's what people over facebook is saying, but apparently the Majingilane males finally took notice of the young Birminghams roaming in their territory and chased them off it.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author While they were at it, they also catched a buffalo, so buen provecho as we say here in Argentina.  *This image is copyright of its original author What I find interesting is that the encounter was between the young males and only three of the Majingilane. That day, Hip Scar was with the Othawa pride, so that means that the young males still lack confidence if almost half their numbers could easily chased them. Of course, the lads are still young and they will eventually grow stronger, but it also shows that the Majingilane males won't tolerate outsiders(as many over facebook fanatically say, expecting their demise anyday). Being chased off towards what is Matimba territory, now there is another question. What will the five young males do if they encounter the very agressive but only two Matimba males? Anything can happen...
@lioncrazy , answering your question in the other thread about the Majingilane, three of them were seen with one of the Othawa females and the cubs, all very relaxed and sleepy.
 *This image is copyright of its original author The other male could very well be with the other Othawa girls or with the Mangheni pride, but since I don't know I don't want to especulate. Here it goes some other photos of them in the last days. Hip Scar male  *This image is copyright of its original author Dark mane male, 9/08 in Inyati  *This image is copyright of its original author From this week in Londolozi  *This image is copyright of its original author This one of Dark mane is hilarious  *This image is copyright of its original author The beautiful Scar Nose male 8/08  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Golden Mane male 8/08  *This image is copyright of its original author What is certain is that all four of them look in excellent condition and, most important of all, they are staying together, ready to face any challenge that comes to their kingdom. |
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