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Pleistocene Big Cats
Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines
Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines
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Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines
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 (09-18-2015, 11:21 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: @GrizzlyClaws and @tigerluver, my congratulations for kept such a good topic active, with constant new data and new posters! The large teeth discovered in China and Java mostly matched with the aforementioned prehistoric tigers. And the skull of these individuals would exceed 46 cm if we reconstruct the skull and mandible based on the comparison of the lower canine teeth. The teeth match better with the mandible, that's why we assume these teeth should belong to the mandible. 
@GuateGojira, so would you need the images in vK's book?
I think we can interchange lower and upper canines in photographic overlays easily. Nevertheless, I'm still leaning toward the canines we have been investigating to be lower canines due to the colorations which would show the boundary of the gums. The tapering of the canines at the end also is another piece of evidence to this conclusion in my opinion (I looked through Merriam and Stock and the canine/claws thread and this trend is quite consistent), as stated before. Finally, the lower canines look relatively thinner compared to their height. @Fieryeel, would you mind if I cited your canine in my appendix for my studies (I'd cite it as private collection)?
I think @tigerluver can reconstruct the skull for both Ngandong tiger and Wanhsien tiger, while @GuateGojira can work on a new body model.
I'm working on putting a face onto vK's skull. It'll take me a while, but I'd to see how the tiger would look like in the flesh.
We can use the South China tiger for the Wanhsien tiger and the Javan tiger for the Ngandong tiger.
@GrizzlyClaws, I'll remove the upper canine overlay on the Wahnsien and that'll be our reconstruction. We can calculate the rest of the longitudinal measurements. For the Ngandong reconstruction, I'll take vK's cranium, and replace the mandible with the one that fit with @Fieryeel's canine well. I'll also do a quick overlay with the Java skull from Feiler and Stefen (2009).
@tigerluver, do you have an scanned image of the skull of the Ngandong tiger? Or do you think that the one use by us at this time is accurate?
I need it for the fossils comparison. 
@GuateGojira, I've got everything digitized, I'll post vK's tiger bones in a bit.
@GrizzlyClaws, I think I can, but it's turning out to a bit difficult to shop the photo as I want it. I'll see what I can do.
Although the Javan mandible is fully intact, but do you think that this could have the same ratio and proportion of the Ngandong mandible?
There's a lot of intraspecific variation but remember this comparison:
 *This image is copyright of its original author They have the potential to be very similar. Although, the carnassials of Javan tigers are proportionately large, although this again may be a symptom of the trend I described earlier.
Hmmm, it seems that @Fieryeel's tooth is better to stick with the Ngandong mandible, since the modern Javan mandible is not as consistent as the original one.
Funny that the 14 cm lower canine from China is consistent with both Wanhsien tiger and South China tiger, but not with the case of the Ngandong/Sunda tiger. Do you think such obvious morphological divergence could be the result of the insular dwarfism? Since the South China tiger didn't suffer from this case. |
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