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Fall of Mapogos Lions
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 (11-20-2016, 12:40 AM)LionKiss Wrote:Did you read the article?(11-19-2016, 11:00 PM)Pckts Wrote: So? That doesn't mean they have some sort of secret vendetta, it's an adjective used to describe the coalition from whoever wrote the article, id also like to see the whole article so we don't have interpret a single excerpt again. He absolutely makes no harsh statements towards the Mapogos, in fact, the article isn't really about them. He also compares the new challengers to the Mapogos and talks about their similarities. So in your mind, he hates the Mapogos but loves the other coalition? Also, using your reasoning... How do you know they had any vendettas against the Mapogos? Burden of proof is on you, you're making these claims you should have real evidence to back them. 
No other coalition of sabi sand called thugs or gangsters by people of sabi sands . Can anyone provide any articles about it.
(11-20-2016, 01:14 AM)fursan syed Wrote: No other coalition of sabi sand called thugs or gangsters by people of sabi sands . Can anyone provide any articles about it."Up until that time the area belonged to the gang of thugs known as the Mapogo’s. No male lion crosses into another’s domain without running a serious risk of being detected, discovered and possibly loosing your life. It was not long before two of the Mapogo males had discovered these new young up and coming males on their patch, attacking them instantly and severely mauling one of them, paralyzing him, leading to his death later on the same day. Later that afternoon the now four strong, upstarts must have been aware they had the upper hand and during a counter attack killed one of the Mapogo males, and abruptly bringing their infamous rein to a bloody end. They had punctured his skull, breaking his zygomatic arch and removing a chunk out of the back of his cranium. The next time we met their eyes held within an added confidence, as they now knew what they are capable of together. What is interesting is these new boys have begun their rule the same way as the Mapogo’s did just over three years ago and that is with the death of one of the old echelon. Where they came from is not important, what genes they carry is. As within in them lies the success or demise of the African Lion. I am sure we will be hearing more from these boys, as will the rest of the Sabi Sands Game Reserve. Meet the new kings." Humans use adjectives all the time to describe animals. They are called "Kings, Monsters, Thugs, Warlords, Killers, Lovers" and so on. Another article from Graham New Blood roams the Djuma driving area in the form of two new male lions in the area There is a new wave of lion politics evolving in the greater northern section of the Sabi Sands, with the appearance of two new up and coming male lions, making themselves known to the local prides. They first appeared around a month or so ago inside Djuma's northern territories coming out of Manyaleti, their origins a mystery. Both are in the early prime of their lives and have already ventured as far south as Djuma's boundary with northern Mala Mala. Mapogo territory and dangerous ground for new up and comming male lions. The string of dead lions left in the Mapogo's wake on just about the enitre reserve, is a worrying reminder of the Mapogo's power and range. The two new comers have already been ushered back north by the Mapogo's, two have been seen up in the area and have been heard most nights issuing audible warnings to the new comers to steer clear of their land. The previous two boys who attempted a take over were last seen by myself, at Buffelshoek Dam, on the 19th of June this year.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author No one really knows what happend to them, one of the draw backs of being limited to the areas accessable to lions but not to us.......... Now with the new boys in the area and being very stand offish of the vehicles, with one of them being what I consider to be a true male lion, is highly aggrressive. A huge bonus to the area and he already has and will hopefully continue to be, a massive wake up call for alot of the guides in the area, as through him will come the lessons of how to treat a lion with the respect they deserve. Here he is in all his glory we have only met once and I only managed to get a few shots of him, warning an in coming vehicle from another lodge, that he is not a cat to be messed with. I just wish I could add the sound of his growl which we recieved on our approach to him, but managed to float through his comfort barrier with a tail flick, "I'll kill you in a second" look, and that unmistakle growl which seems to eminate from deeper within him than seems possible. An incredible sound.  *This image is copyright of its original author The next shot is him about to charge the other car, but got his message across by sitting up and intensifying his growl, which the guide then got. He didn't seem to stay long in the sighting.  *This image is copyright of its original author With a cat with an attitude like he has and the fact that the Mapogo coallition are not always together, leaves me wondering whether these two may be the slow demise of the reign of the Mapogo's. I think his side kick might be the one to really be careful of, as he slinks off into cover and observes everything. I have no idea of his character, but have learnt to be weary of the one that slink off and watches. If not these two boys there has also been a sighting of a coalition 6 young males in the area recently, which I personlly have not had the privlegde of meeting, yet. They are all around the three and a half to four year old mark, so another couple of months and the lions world could turn on its head once again. Could be the days of the Mapogo's lounging around in their kingdom, be running out??  *This image is copyright of its original author http://www.djuma.com/blog/?itemid=30 I once again fail to find any bashing of the mapogos or any lions for that matter, in fact, he specifically talks about it being good to have an aggressive large male which is a "huge bonus for the area" Tourist love big predators, there is no higher request when going on safari than to see male lions or male tigers.
The Mapogo story.
 *This image is copyright of its original author Some of this information was first part of a Database that we were compiling for Africam. Graham asked if we would share this with the WE Viewers as well. We hope you find this info as interesting as we have.  *This image is copyright of its original author Mapogo Coalition - 6 Male Lions also known as the Eyrefield Males, the Sparta Males and in some regions the "Cannibals". They were named Mapogo after a security company that utilizes rather harsh methods in dealing with offenders. We've found several different meanings for Mapogo.
Ulusaba refers to it as meaning "Vigilantes" and Savanna Lodge refers to the Mapogo name being a Zulu word meaning "Rogues". What ever the meaning, they are Bad News! Pride they Originated From: Eyrefield Pride aka Sparta Pride. This pride still exists and consists of 3 adult females and 9 cubs. Two of the remaining Eyrefield pride lionesses are siblings of the Mapogos and the third and oldest lioness may very well be the Mother to some of them. The dominant male of this Pride today is the one remaining Roller Coaster/Shaw/Castleton Male. Sired by: A Coalition of 5 Male Lions known as The West Street Males aka The Sparta Males. (Note: There is a twist to this story that we will share a little later.)  *This image is copyright of its original author 1st day WE saw them on cam 12/27/07 These males took over the Eyrefield/Sparta pride from the Manyeleti males in 1998. They were approximately 8 yrs of age at the time and successfully raised many cubs to adulthood during their reign. The last of this coalition died in 2004 at the approximate age of 14 years or even older (some reports indicated the last two were plus/minus 16 yrs in 2003 when two of the original four Marthly/Split Rock/Robson males moved in).  *This image is copyright of its original author The Oldest Mapogo Male is said to be unrelated to the other 5. The story is that the original pride (Eyrefield/Sparta) lost a male sub adult of 20 to 21 months of age in May/June 2000 and in July 2000 this male of about the same age latched on to the original pride. Though not readily accepted by the lionesses, the West Street Males barely tolerated him though they didn't kill him as he was no threat to their dominance due to his age. His life was not an easy one as he was considered an outcast, yet this young lion became one of the boldest and most valued hunters by helping to keep the pride fed when the West Street males became too old. Londolozi refers to the oldest Mapogo male as "Ngalalalekha". Ngala means lion so does lalekha mean "old, older, oldest"? Good question for Rexon.  *This image is copyright of its original author This oldest Male is elusive. He is said to be bigger, bolder and darker than the other five. He is believed to be the sire of most of the Mapogo cubs that have been born so far but with more recent reports of matings it seems some of the other males will become fathers too if not already. Prides that currently have cubs sired by a Mapogo are the Tsalala pride, the Othawa pride and the Sand River pride. More than likely, there are others as well. One story about this older male that sticks out in our minds is when Londolozi reported a sighting of two hyena clans on a buffalo carcass. A group of approximately 25 adult elephants standing shoulder to shoulder with little ones behind them were staring the hyenas down. A noise was heard behind the vehicle and when the spotlight was shown in that direction an "enormous" male lion burst into their sight roaring louder than any roar they had ever heard before which sent 30 hyenas scattering. It was the leader of the six Mapogos. He stared down the wall of elephants which after about 5 minutes of standing their ground finally gave way to the lone male and moved off.  *This image is copyright of its original author The Other 5 Mapogo Males are said to be sired by the West Street Males but here is where the twist comes in...... the two youngest might have been sired by the Roller Coaster Males aka Shaw Males aka Castleton Males. The Roller Coaster males were believed to have started out as a Coalition of 6. Four of which enticed some of the Eyrefield/Sparta females into mating with them while the aging West Street males were away from the pride. Thus it is unclear who actually fathered the two youngest. And to add another little twist, it is said that the West Street Males who sired the Mapogos also fathered the Roller Coaster/Shaw/Castleton males. Estimated ages of the Mapogo Coaliton as of May 2008: Older Unrelated Male - 9 yrs 7 mos Two Older Related Males - 7 yrs 4 1/2 mos One a Little Younger Male - 7 yrs 2 mos Two youngest males (possibly sired by the Roller Coaster Males) - 6 yrs 6 mos  *This image is copyright of its original author Giraffe Steal from Nkuhuma 01/12/08 As you can see, the Mapogo Coalition is not the first nor will it be the last large coalition. Being the first large coalition the WE viewers have encountered, it is hard to comprehend that the current lion population can survive with all these killings but they will. The survivors of this onslaught will be the "new" beginning, the "next" generation just as the survivors of past large coalitions were. We don't like it and we don't have to like it but sadly it is the nature of things. How have they impacted the lion population in just the couple of years they have been independent? Here are a few reports: Londolozi reports five prides that have been adversely affected by the Mapogos. They cited these three: Castleton Pride originally 22 and down to 6; Tsalala Pride originally 10 and down to 5; Ximunvanyane Pride originally 10 down to ZERO. We can say fairly confidently, the number of prides adversely affected has risen since the Londolozi report. Elephant Plains reported recently of receiving a report from Sabi Sands stating almost 40% of the lion population has been killed by the Mapogo Coalition in just the past year. That relates to approximately 50 lions. (Our thoughts: Do these numbers also include deaths that occurred from the pressure that the Mapogo coalition has put on other prides and coalitions in the Sabi Sands area?)  *This image is copyright of its original author Quote from Elephant Plains referencing the Mapogos "Killing buffalo, adult giraffes, even young rhinos and hippos. And lions. And they were not just killing the lions..they were eating them" More on their cannibalistic ways. On February 7th 2007, the Mapogos not only brutally killed "Rocky" aka the Serengeti/Kruger male but they ate him. "Rocky" was the dominant male that sired the 6 cubs of the two younger Tsalala pride lionesses. All those cubs have been killed except for one sub adult female. Currently the Tsalala pride falls under the dominance of the Mapogos. In the same report where Singita tells of "Rocky's" death, they mention the Mapogos being seen eating a dead lioness the previous year. Hyenas better watch out too! We haven't seen any reports of them eating Hyenas but they do kill them as shown in this sighting from Singita. http://www.singita.com/site/Wildlife/rangerdetails.asp?rangerid=207 Recently, the Elephant Plains Newsletter had a graphic photo of a Mapogo Male with a Hyena in it's mouth. Though the Hyena was not killed on the spot, it died from the injuries sustained. Knowing how much we all love the Nkuhuma pride, we will only post the link to the killing of Blondie by the Mapogo Males. Reported by Arathusa, Dec 14, 2007. (Note: This is a PDF file) http://www.arathusa.co.za/pdf/diaries/Dec0701.pdf The Mapogo Males not only kill other males' cubs but cubs of their own. Ulusaba reported in June 2007 that a split in the coalition had occurred (though this split seems to have only been temporary). During this report period the 5 related Mapogos killed the oldest unrelated Mapogo's cubs belonging to the Othawa lionesses. The Mapogos seem to have banded back together as a coalition after the short term split in 2007, Ulusaba reported in March 2008 that the coalition had joined the Sand River pride on one of their occasional visits to see their offspring. They all shared in two wildebeest kills including the FIVE male cubs (beginning of another large coalition?). One of the cubs thought it would be fun to slap his sleeping Father on the nose. Boy oh boy did he find out that was a mistake. His Father exploded to his feet bearing down on the defenseless cub! Luckily, all the little one got was a good swat to his backside. LOL After some Motherly reassurance, the cub decided his siblings were a better target for that type of play. Items that may be of Interest:  *This image is copyright of its original author To give you an idea of their strength, here is an awesome video posted by Youtube member mattwood22. Taking down a Buffalo Bull - January 2006. The dark mane one is the "oldest" Mapogo and there is one lioness with them also on this kill. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RKBllKd590 It is only fair to show a softer side of the Mapogos. This article from Exeter/Wildwatch is about a sighting of one of the Mapogo Males (probably the oldest) interacting with his cubs. It includes some great pictures. http://www.wildwatch.com/sightings/ottawa-pride-cubs-found  *This image is copyright of its original author We hope this information has been helpful and may shed a new light on these bad boys. Are they BAD? Yes! Are they any worse than other large coalitions? Probably not, with the possible exception of their cannibalistic ways.. they tend to take that to an Extreme! Please remember, this information is not set in stone as it is an evolving story and there are conflicting accounts. Written by Aquila and Karen in VA  *This image is copyright of its original author http://blog.wildearth.tv/2008/05/we-kare...ed-to.html  (11-20-2016, 12:50 AM)Pckts Wrote: Did you read the article? the Mapogos were hated because they have killed over 100 lions and people wanted to split them in 3 and relocate them in different areas. they were deeply hated and there are videos talking about "renew the gene pool" tourists have said that guides did not want them in their area. I have nothing to prove if you believe it fine, if not it does not really matter anyway.  (11-09-2016, 08:31 PM)Tshokwane Wrote: Sanjay: Instead of polluting the Mapogos thread, You guys can discuss and debate about the Mapogos fall in this thread, Is it human or is it natural ?  (04-24-2018, 04:21 AM)Tshokwane Wrote: @Mungu Basically, that there is human intervention, always and in each every case. Mr T was darted and Mapogo heritage was also extinguished at will and specifically as it happened with sub-adult male Mapogos, targeted and hunted down after being presumed guilty of cattle attacks. But, in any case, everything that happens is, let`s say, "guided" by park politics (that includes local pressure); nothing here is, strictly, of "natural becoming". One thing is true though, that the Mapogo "propaganda" has penetrated vigorously after the documentary; factor that plays a heavy emotional role in this case. (04-24-2018, 04:43 AM)Mungu Wrote: Basically, that there is human intervention, always and in each every case. Mr T was darted and Mapogo heritage was also extinguished at will and specifically as it happened with sub-adult male Mapogos, targeted and hunted down after being presumed guilty of cattle attacks. But, in any case, everything that happens is, let`s say, "guided" by park politics (that includes local pressure); nothing here is, strictly, of "natural becoming". Nah, I disagree completely. Fanatics started that BS just because they don't have anything useful to do and now people has been mislead, and repeat it. In comparison to other places where there's actual human intervention on the animals like, say, in the desert or in the mara, not even there it's done to "extinguish a certain coalition's heritage", it's just what people do to survive( as it often happens, in conflicts with cattle). Sacando eso, estamos en algún grupo juntos en Facebook? (04-24-2018, 04:52 AM)Tshokwane Wrote:...I consider that taking down 5 males at once, being from whatever coalition, to be not an event of fortune. It happens that, these 5 were Mapogo lineage.. that is a fact...(04-24-2018, 04:43 AM)Mungu Wrote: Basically, that there is human intervention, always and in each every case. Mr T was darted and Mapogo heritage was also extinguished at will and specifically as it happened with sub-adult male Mapogos, targeted and hunted down after being presumed guilty of cattle attacks. But, in any case, everything that happens is, let`s say, "guided" by park politics (that includes local pressure); nothing here is, strictly, of "natural becoming". ..no que yo sepa..salutti  (04-24-2018, 04:56 AM)Mungu Wrote:(04-24-2018, 04:52 AM)Tshokwane Wrote:...I consider that taking down 5 males at once, being from whatever coalition, to be not an event of fortune. It happens that, these 5 were Mapogo lineage.. that is a fact...(04-24-2018, 04:43 AM)Mungu Wrote: Basically, that there is human intervention, always and in each every case. Mr T was darted and Mapogo heritage was also extinguished at will and specifically as it happened with sub-adult male Mapogos, targeted and hunted down after being presumed guilty of cattle attacks. But, in any case, everything that happens is, let`s say, "guided" by park politics (that includes local pressure); nothing here is, strictly, of "natural becoming". As someone who stumbled across the documentary about the Mapogo lions and having it lead me down a rabbit hole of wanting to find out more about the lions, this thread has been quite interesting so I thought about sharing some of my analysis based on some basic reasoning despite being many years after the last comment. For instance this source, <<https://pemburytours.com/mapogo-lions/>>, the way in which the content conveyed by the article to me sheds some light to how people tend to perceive the lions. In regards to the theory that there was direct human interference that lead to the downfall of Mapogo lions, you can make quite a few logical reasonings. 1. Why might the locals, rangers, and whomever else involved might dislike the Mapogo Lions despite their fame? First is that it is natural to grow attachment to pre-existing lions that resided in the area in which the Mapogo Lions conquered, so if a group of lions suddenly came and destoryed a large lion population it is logical to dislike them. Although for sure rangers and professionals are supposed to be neutral, everyone is human and is inclined to their own selfish emotions. However, that is beside the point as there are a huge population of relevant people that aren't professionals who need to follow that neutrality. Park officials, local residents, and everyone else are entitled to their own biases and can make influencial decisions that negatively or positively impact the group. Moreover, the Mapogo lions took over in a much larger scale with more violence, cannibalism and destruction making them easy target to be hated. Although titles such as thugs are considered common descriptive words for animals like kings, lovers, etc., but what they infer is quite obvious. They are not conquerers or things with more neutral tones, but thugs with evil descriptions. What they did of course is evil in our eyes especially with the amount of cannibalism and killing of large quantity of male, female, and young lions, but nevertheless it creates more logical basis for people to hate them or incline to harm them. Also just purely on an impression perspective, if somebody is called something negative rather than neutral or positive they are more likely to be viewed in a negative light. Also on a side note “From the time I first saw them until I left the Sabi Sands, the Mapogos killed between 90 and 110 other lions in the park. I also had to shoot approximately 15 lions that were so badly mauled by the Mapogos that their spines were severed and had to be put out of their misery.” If they really liked the Mapogos like the ranger from the documentary describes, they could have given them a less painful death because clearly they don't view putting animal out of misery as disturbing the natural order only nursing it counts. This is quite minor though, just thought it was interesting to point out. 2. Why despite their fame and potentially bringing in tourists, relevant parties might want to cause harm to them? Like the source above suggested not only the usual casualties of male lion takeover occur, the female population who are usually more unaffected were affected. [*]Castleton Pride: originally 22 down to 6. [*]Tsalala Pride: originally 10 down to 5. [*]Ximunvanyane Pride: originally 10 down to 0. [*]Elephant Plains reported that almost 40% of the lion population had been killed by the Mapogo Coalition. This means they killed around 40 – 50 lions To rangers and the park, male lions come and go due to the natural order, but death of females and the destruction of prides aren't so common. The violent tendencies of the Mopogo gang like Mr.T killing and eating lioness or mating with dead lioness that he killed her are not something probably the rangers would even feel acustomed to. The Mapogo gang is trurly and extrodinary group of lions, but it is undeniable that they brought a lot of havok to the prides that is pivitol to the lion population and the park. As mentioned earlier males come and go, but prides pass down the bloodline and play a more important role in the lion population survival, so having the Mopogo gang negatively affecting them will definitively irritate local population, professionals, and authorities. In addition, for the park even though it is nice to have some infamous group of 6 lions, massive deduction of lion population never look good on paper. Fertile lioness dying due to violent Mapogo lions are never positive to the park as it decreases future lion output and harm the future outlook of the park severely. Regardless of how famous the Mapogo lions are, they will eventually die of old age. However, if the prides get reduced in numbers and the Mapogo lions keep killing their own cubs due to internal fighting and violent tendencies, there will be less fertile partners available for the eventual takeover of new lions and reduce to output of new lions. To park officials Mapogo lions aren't natural, but rather an anomoly that disturb the status quo and that can be viewed negatively. Just from a people's persepective, we hate change, and when the change is a group of violent, more cannibalistic, and unusual lions massacring your park's lion population, you are more likely to detest them. Therefore, it is entirely likely that there were involvements from others that expedited the downfall of Mapogo gang for the sake of the lion ecosystem. Eventhough we would like to believe in those environments nature is allowed to run freely, but in essence it is through and through a business and an ecosystem. If money stops flowing, who is going to pay rangers, the locals, and the resources? To the outside the Mapogo lions are like a great documentary, to the park it can be viewed as a plague that they want to get rid of it quickly. Conlusion: Kind of got tired of writing, had a third point but am just too lazy to finish it. Also famous lions are desirable for trophies, hence why dreadlock is poached and why their subadults might be prime targets for extra bragging rights. However, when you look at it from the other side, pretty sure if like they really wanted Mapogo Lions to be gone they could have acted way sooner rather than letting them live till old age. It is not definitively known whether there was more tampering than what meets the eye, but as outlined above there are very logical reasons for the park to help expedite the process so the ecosystem goes back to "normal." As one say, everyone has a limit, it just depends on how much so I don't have this unrealistic expectation that the professionals always stick to their code especially the underlying logic behind their work place is that it is a business. A business that advertise on keeping it nature as a business model, a wild zoo, but a zoo regardless. |
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