Crocodile and Big cats Interaction

[Shadow]

(07-08-2019, 02:22 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:

(07-07-2019, 02:13 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(07-07-2019, 01:14 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:

(10-18-2018, 07:03 PM)chaos Wrote:

(10-17-2018, 06:30 PM)chaos Wrote:

(10-17-2018, 06:20 PM)Shadow Wrote: I made a picture to compare in rough way. Here in photo is replica of Lolong, a crocodile 6m 17cm long. And there is a tiger from above, I scaled tiger as relatively big, from nose to back about 2 meters without tail.

Tiger is not in straight position and I tried to pay attention to it. But this hopefully gives a little bit perspective to it, that what kind of sizes we are talking about with biggest known crocs. And also, that what is crocodile torso size and head size there. Red lines are meters, blue lines feet. I made those pictures just for personal curiosity.

6m 17 cm is 20,24 feet btw.

Crocs of 3+ meters are more than any big cat can handle. On land, a very difficult task, in the water - a mismatch.
Just my opinion.

Excuse me, my bad. I meant 5+ meters

I found something interesting. Back in 2011, a Sundarban tigress aged 8-10 years was killed after a night-long fight with a 14-foot (about 4.2 m) croc. The report (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home...548432.cms) doesn't say if it was a mugger or saltwater croc, but I know that 14 ft is rather long for a mugger, though not impossible (https://archive.org/details/journalofbom...b/page/296), so more likely this was a SW croc. If it took a 14-ft croc a whole night to defeat a small Sundarban tigress, then I dare say that even the likes of Lolong better not underestimate the fighting capabilities of a huge tiger or lion, such as this tiger at Kaziranga National Park (https://www.123rf.com/photo_16298381_ben...71k3_4yzjc) or this lion at Etosha National Park (https://www.wildlifeadventures.com/namib...mibia.html): 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

This case was here already in some other thread, even though article of Telegraph say, that it was saltwater crocodile and tiger was male. Story of Telegraph is more realistic for me, because I don´t believe a moment for some fight over night. Tiger and crocodile fighting for hours and hours.... that is so unnatural thing to imagine, that impossible to take seriously. But maybe a fierce battle of 10-30 minutes max. and then dead tiger there, that seems to be clear that tiger was killed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/8695915/Fifteen-foot-Bengali-crocodile-claims-king-of-jungle-title-from-tiger.html

Then again one thing. When comparing a 14-15 feet and 20 feet crocodiles it is good to remember, that weight of crocodile increases a lot, when it gets bigger. In water that means, that tiger or lion is like a rag doll if croc gets a good bite and starts to roll. Of course already a 14-15 feet crocodile is very dangerous in water, but those 20 feet crocs are in their own class, when side by side with smaller ones.

There is nevertheless an anomaly in the report by The Telegraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne...tiger.html). The Telegraph, which reported the story on the 11th of August, 2011, in New Delhi (over 1,300 km or 807.8 miles from the Bengali Sundarbans) says that the tiger was male, whereas the local source (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home...548432.cms), which reported the story on the 10th of August in the Bengali city of Kolkata (the city's centre being less than 70 km or 30.4 miles from the nearest point of the Sundarbans), reported that a beat officer said that the tiger's genitals, besides one of its hind legs, were missing. How did The Telegraph in the far away city of ND come to the conclusion that the tiger was male, when a report from within the Bengali region, which contains the Sundarbans, said that the tiger's genitals were missing?

Map of India with the West Bengali administrative city of Kolkata marked, with the Sundarbans being the green area nearby: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kolkat...d88.363895

I looked just for curiosity what other articles told about this case. Here is one interesting quote:

"Initial suspicions that the killing may have been the handiwork of poachers were belied by the fact that the usual organs that poachers take away – genitalia, teeth, etc. were found intact."

Word tigress isn´t used there: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/crocodile-kills-tiger-in-sunderbans-island/article2340792.ece


Then Indian Express, quote: "In a rare incident of conflict between animals in Sunderbans Tiger Reserve, a crocodile has killed and partly devoured a fully grown Royal Bengal Tiger."

Another quote: "A hind-leg of the tiger has been taken away and femur of the other hind-leg which is the largest bone of the body is missing. The tail and the genitals also seem to have been eaten away," said the STR field director."

So here also no tigress mentioned, but it seems to be quite unclear, that what is situation with genitalia (I mean all articles, here again said, that eaten :)
Source: http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/in-sunderbans-crocodile-devours-tiger/829699/

BUT

Here is then one source and whole story, which I think that can be considered as reliable as it can be. And it shows also, that all articles before were more or less inaccurate
It was a female tiger, saltwater crocodile about 14 feet long and there has been some fight, but nothing indicates that it would have been something extraordinary over night.

Quote:
"Occurrence of crocodile attack 

On 9 August 2011 a tigress was killed by an estuarine crocodile in STR. The carcass of the tiger was found on the mudflats of Dobanki Khal (Creeks) near Dodanki Camp (21°59’49’’ North latitude and 88°45’32.7’ East longitude), approximately 250-300 m away on the opposite side of the camp at Pirkhali-5 compartment under SWLS Range, on the way to Sajnekhali. Dobanki khal is a perennial habitat of estuarine crocodile and a few large-sized crocodiles are often seen during patrolling by staff and officers. The Dobanki area is also the territory of three tigers and they frequently move from one island to other by swimming like the other tigers of the Sundarbans. A few months earlier there was an incident of a spotted deer killed by a crocodile at almost the same location as the tiger kill, which was recorded on video by a range officer, SWLS Range. It is interesting to note that on that occasion a tiger was crossing the river just 60-70 m away. 

The tiger carcass was lying in a lateral recumbent position on the small mudflat of Dobanki khal and a very large estuarine crocodile approximately 14 feet in length was moving around about 150 m away from the spot, repeatedly trying to reach his victim, but forest staff prevented it from doing so. Signs of movement of crocodile on the site of the carcass of tiger were also noticed. Decomposition had not started, which clearly indicated that the incident happened only a few hours before. 

Post mortem 

During the post mortem examination of the carcass conducted at Dobanki Camp it was revealed (Anon, 2011a) that the carcass was of a female tiger approximately 5-6 years old. From the external appearance it was observed that the rigor mortis stage of the carcass was over so time of death was estimated to be 24-28 hours before post mortem, i.e., on the afternoon of 8 August 2011. It was observed that all 4 canines were intact, no abnormal discharges from the nasal opening or ear orifice were detected. Length of the body from nose tip to lumbar vertebra was 108 cm; height was 84 cm. On outside of the body several wounds were found which appeared to be conical in shape. Twenty-two scattered, elliptical, deep piercing wounds on the body were observed on the abdomen, right dorsal foreleg, dorsal thoracic region and dorsal posterior neck region. The body beyond the second lumbar vertebra was totally torn off and absent except for the dislocated femur up to the paw of the left hind leg which was attached to the body by a flap of skin. Both the kidneys and lungs were found to be intact and there was a large torn vent in the diaphragm. All visceral organs like heart, trachea, oesophagus were in normal condition; the pleural cavity was completely destroyed. In the pleural cavity blood-tinged fluid was observed. The morphology of the liver was normal with only a few patchy whitish marks observed. Gall bladder and ducts were identified in the carcass. 

Conclusion 

Considering all observations it was concluded that the death of the tigress was due to a crocodile attack. The evidence of the mode of attack indicated that while she was swimming across the river a crocodile attacked her hind portion and killed her by repeated jerking and drowning. There were signs that the tigress tried to fight back but could not save itself. 

This is the first instance of a Sundarban tiger being preyed on and killed by an estuarine crocodile (C. porosus) in Sundarban Tiger Reserve. 

Acknowledgements 

The author would like to thanks Dr. S. Mukherjee, Field Director, Sundarban Tiger Reserve, for providing facilities and support. He is also grateful to Dr. A.K. Raha, Principal Chief Conservator of Forests (Head of Forest Force), West Bengal, Sri S.B.Mandal, Principal Chief Conservator of Forests and Chief Wild Life Warden, West Bengal and Sri P. Vyas, Director, Sundarban Biosphere Reserve, West Bengal for their constant encouragement.

Source: http://www.fao.org/3/a-am998e.pdf

Quote is from page 3

Case closed, I think :) Reply