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Big cat and Bear tale
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 (12-27-2016, 07:24 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Grizzlies and polar bears do indeed carry more fat than the other bear species; this is true. However, that extra muscle - the shoulder hump - is very real. As for tigers and bears, the tiger most aggressive towards bears is the Amur tiger. He hunts both grizzlies and Asiatic black bears. You will read from many sources that tigers hunt and kill more brown bears than black bears, but DNA testing of tiger-dung proves them wrong. This was an assumption due to the black bear's tree-climbing ability. I agreed on this a few days back. Having predators does not give great physical strength. But anyhow regarding amur tigers, that is interesting study. Black bears make most of the diet of amur tigers than brown bears. Tfs. 
No, I am comparing human vs chimpanzee aggression to prove that a human's aggressiveness won't make it pound-for-pound stronger than a calm chimpanzee.
Same with the bears. You assumed that sloth bears were pound-for-pound stronger than brown bears due to "fighting nature" (which other bears have) and their increased aggression, which isn't true. 
Photo and information credits: Jason Fernandes
When Hairy met Stripey. This was a scintillating Encounter between these two beasts. Caroline Rigg I wish you some great tiger luck. Tadoba.  *This image is copyright of its original author
A piece of fine ancient art - the bear and the tiger - Harvard Art Museum. I have no idea the name of the artist nor the place or time period.
 *This image is copyright of its original author
First, I don't know where to post this awesome video.
This is latest sensational video of a male tiger fighting with male Sloth Bear in night. Both fight very well and sloth bear gives a good fight but tiger stood its ground. I must say that this is very very rare video and we must enjoy it. Please share this thread to your friends :)
Male tiger vs Sloth Bear, a rare and good video - http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-an...0#pid37990
(03-20-2017, 08:45 PM)sanjay Wrote: First, I don't know where to post this awesome video. That's a great video, you can see the speed at which the tiger strikes. That certainly helped it in fending off the bear, as the bear came forward the tiger looked like it was going to rear up, but the bear came charging in lower, then the tiger sort of struck the sides of the bears head and gripped also. It seems like the tiger submitted by lowering itself, but then the bear walked away later in the other direction, before it made a few displays of aggression. If you look closely after the bear backed the tiger up, it makes that later display of aggression in the spot light of the car, when it does that, watch the tiger, the tiger drops down into submission. After the bear leaves the tiger gets up and walks across the road. These bears really aren't that big, so honestly the tiger should fair well, because both seem to be similar size. But either way, awesome rare video, great find!!  (12-27-2016, 07:23 PM)Polar Wrote:(12-27-2016, 06:24 PM)parvez Wrote: Due to the presence of tigers and even leopards sometimes, bears in indian subcontinent (sloth bear and asiatic black bear) are known to be extra aggressive than other species of bears. They are known to be vicious fighters. So, i assumed one of them should be strongest pound for pound. But I am really not sure. If you have any studies regarding which bear is the strongest pound for pound i would be glad to read it. You may be right no one knows the truth until studies are published. But i agree grizzly bear has massive shoulder hump. But it should also be remembered that they have thick hairy fur covering all over the body. Also, they have around several inches thick fat layer all over the body. So, the hump is not as impressive as it appears to be. Not trying to make this a versus debate, but check out these massive specimens, i find these tigers to be having the biggest shoulder humps in all carnivorous or omnivorous world with some exceptions of grizzlies almost touching the level. Perhaps you can state your opinion if you agree or not, There was this guy on youtube from Russia who was a bear fan, he was posting all kind of accounts, of bear and tiger fights, it seems from what is out there, the bear is superior to the tiger in a fight, including small bears like sloth bears. Now I would not ordinarily expect that, because I'd back a same size tiger vs a same size bear, but from what I saw in the accounts, the bears are tougher, and they fight stronger, even small bears.
Nice find Sanjay. Remember that the tiger is the predator; the aggressor. The sloth bear stood his ground in defense. It seems odd to me the sloth bear's habit of facing his enemies rather than scurry up a tree like a black bear. They are capable of doing so. I understand it with a grizzly because they are simply not good climbers. Those little guys can be brave in the face of danger.
(03-20-2017, 11:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Nice find Sanjay. Remember that the tiger is the predator; the aggressor. The sloth bear stood his ground in defense. It seems odd to me the sloth bear's habit of facing his enemies rather than scurry up a tree like a black bear. They are capable of doing so. I understand it with a grizzly because they are simply not good climbers. Those little guys can be brave in the face of danger. Brother there is some legit accounts of sloth bears and tigers, and all sorts of bears, it seems from what I saw, that the bear comes into the fight with its head down, so its throat is protected. So you see that as the bear charges the tiger, its head is down, the tiger ends up clawing the top part of the neck and head, this is a winning strategy for the bear and accounts show it works, eventually the tiger will become worn down not able to get to the throat and bear will over power it. This is true even for blackbears as well, all sorts of bears. Bears by nature seem to be the tougher, but again a larger tiger is hard to bet against, because there is just a lot of speed and power there.
Both tigers and bears seem to have thumping paw swipes due to same reason. Even pound for pound they seem to be almost equally stronger due to same reason. That is why the fight was closer. The sloth bear being nasty fighter has proved himself here. The tiger will avoid unnecessary confrontation with bear as far as possible. But here the tiger seems to be dazzled by nastiness of sloth bear. That may be the reason it stopped attacking the bear. Also the bear was smart enough to avoid tigers bite to neck. Altogether it was awesome fight. Tfs Sanjay.
Edit: The tiger is almost same size as bear so it must be sub adult. He was tired easily that indicates low stamina of Bengal tigers while fighting.
I didn't see a tired tiger. I saw a very cautious tiger. With the sloth bear facing him, those long, sharp claws, used for tearing into ant-mounds with, are difficult to get past without injury. The tiger has a size advantage, much longer and probably a little heavier. He ( the tiger ) appears to be nearly grown, but yes, young and inexperienced.
A lion or tiger can last longer in a fight than some believe. Very likely, perhaps, at some point off-camera, the tiger found his ( or her ) chance to ambush the bear. We will never know for sure.
Haymaker; all that you say is true, but it's all in self-defence. No sloth bear walks around in the woods looking for a tiger to pick a fight with. The tiger is the hunter; the aggressor. but once chosen, the sloth bear ( sometimes ) goes in full-throttle against the big cat. I believe its more like a "wolverine-bluff" than pushing for a fight to the death. I have yet to find even a single account of a sloth bear ever killing a tiger, although he can deliver some nasty wounds. But the other way around - yes.
 (03-20-2017, 09:13 PM)Haymaker Wrote:(03-20-2017, 08:45 PM)sanjay Wrote: First, I don't know where to post this awesome video. HAYMAKER For someone claiming to know a bit about the noble art of self defence, the interpretation you offered is, ehhh, quite peculiar. If we add the crap posts on 900-pound wild lions and all the rest you picked up in the books written by a man who developed a serious dislike for stripes over time, I can only get to an agenda. We don't like agendas over here. You was told in a pm, you got another warning after a crap post and when that had no effect a one week holiday was the result. We met before. It resulted in a ban. I don't mind you giving it another try but it seems you, obsessionwise, didn't learn one thing. My advice is to quit crapping around and start contributing good information. And quit the phony questions as well. You want to know about size? Read the extinction and modern weights threads. You want to know about tigers and bears in the Russian far East? Read the extinction thread. If you continue you way you did, I would start thinking about buying a 900-pound pet lion to keep you company in the near future. One with no mane, so you can get an idea about the muscle department on top of the shoulders. VIDEO As to the video. It starts with a sloth bear crossing the road from left to right for a demonstration and it ends with a tiger crossing the road from right to left and no bear to demonstrate. Meaning Baloo didn't have a good day at the office. Was the exchange a result of predation gone wrong? I didn't see any predation. A tiger doing predation isn't going for a confrontation. A tiger interested in predation will try to get in at an angle and move for a position enabling him to finish the opponent as quickly as possible. He would also show aggression. He most definitely will not allow the intended victim to do a few statements. Was it a fight then? In order to get to an opinion, one should have watched a few fights in which tigers were involved. I saw a few and heard a lot more from people who saw much more than all of us combined. A tiger involved in a real fight roars and gives it everything he has. So much so, that it results in a lot of breaks. It's something that can continue for a very long time. Those who witness a real fight very often move out a quick as possible, bars or no bars. I know, because I saw it more than once. The reason? Fear. But the bear committed himself, no? No, he didn't. The bear responded in the way every bear would do when suddenly confronted in that he tried to bluff his way out of trouble. This is not something that adult males only do. It's engrained in every bear, young or old, male or female. They stand on their hind legs and attack their opponent with everything they have. Does it work? Most certainly. That's why all of them do it. Same for captive bears. Tigers, on the other hand, only fight animals they dislike. It would take quite a dislike to go for an all-out. Few tigers will accept a challenge of a bear for no reason at all and bears knows. A bear suddenly confronted by a tiger usually bluffs his way out. But a demonstration is different from a fight. An average male Indian tiger is larger and heavier than an average male sloth bear. Not saying it would be a very one-sided affair, but I've yet to read a report about an adult tiger killed by a sloth bear. Although the strategy works for bears most of the time, it has disadvantages. The bear in the video nearly paid when he overplayed his hand. If the tiger would have been committed, it could have ended right at the start of the video. My guess is the bear knew the tiger wasn't committed. A bear of similar size confronted by a smaller tigress with cubs would have thought twice. So what was going on then? I don't know, but it seemed like the bear was harrassed. He tried to find a way out and secure a safe retreat. The tiger, as can be seen, avoided direct contact, but not quite in that he didn't intend to pull out of it. Every time the bear came for him, he retreated a bit and laid down. Tigers involved in a confrontation that didn't yet result in a fight often wait for their opponent to make a move. Same with man-eaters and tigers cornered by humans with dogs: they often wait for the other to make a move. It's a game of nerves. After every demonstration, the tiger moved forward. The distance between both animals never exceeded 30 feet or so. The tiger kept the pressure up, that is. In the end, the bear moved out and that was the end of it. Could have been a conflict about space. Tigers often 'probe' opponents or 'guide' them out of their territory. I don't think tigers see sloth bears as competitors, but it's well-known that they do not get along with them. And the other way round. They could be competitors in the dominance department. When things are unclear in this respect, a confrontation can be the result. Some of these can develop into a fight. Billy Arjan Singh heard an angry tigress roar during a lengthy fight one evening. He found the bear next morning. Some male tigers can develop a taste for bears, but incidents of this kind are few and far between in India. We need a bit more on both animals in order to be able to understand why the confrontation filmed happened. What we don't need is preferenced posters with bulky agendas going for misinformation right away. This is a forum. Not some bloody You Tube channel. |
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