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Barbary or Atlas lions

Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#16

Here is a fossilized Barbary lion skull that dated about 100kya.

Although the measurement got wrong, but I think this skull is still about 16 inches which is comparable to a very large male African lion.



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



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United States Garfield Offline
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#17
( This post was last modified: 08-28-2017, 02:51 AM by Garfield )

(08-27-2017, 02:24 PM)Ngala Wrote: In this article the researchers illustrated an analysis on lion skulls which reveals that a Barbary Lion is imported in UK already in 1280-1385, probably from north-west Africa.

Barbary lion skull from London
Last updated 26 June 2015

This is the oldest skull of a Barbary lion found in the UK. The lion was part of the royal zoo in the Tower of London 700 years ago.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Workmen digging in the old moat around the Tower of London in 1937 were surprised to find two extraordinarily well-preserved lion skulls.

Using carbon dating, Museum scientists determined that one of the lions lived between 1420 and 1480. The other lived between 1280 and 1385, making it the oldest lion found in the UK since the extinction of wild cave lions during the last ice age.

Genetic testing on the skulls revealed that they were pure-bred Barbary lions, Panthera leo leo.

Pride of place
For centuries, the Tower of London was home to a royal menagerie of exotic animals, from polar bears to elephants.

Lions took pride of place at the Tower's entrance, fearsome gatekeepers serving as a symbol of the strength and nobility of the throne. But although they represented the majesty of the monarchy, it seems that these animals were probably malnourished and in poor physical health.

Reading the bones
Clues about the lions' diet and health can be seen on the younger skull. 

Vertebrates Collections Manager Richard Sabin describes the key features of the skull (BBC Radio 4 clip)

Close-up of the deformed hole at the base of the fifteenth-century Barbary lion skull

*This image is copyright of its original author

The hole where the spinal cord passes through the base of the skull to the brain is partially obstructed.

'You can make out that at the top of the hole there's an infilling of bone,' says Richard. 'It's actually a form of pathology. This is a reaction to, potentially, some sort of nutritional stress. As the infilling of bone grew it would have put pressure on to the spinal cord and possibly caused paralysis and blindness.'

Today, zoos keep their lions healthy by feeding them more complete diets of meat, which include hair, fat and bone. They receive all the nutrients they would get in the wild from eating the whole of their prey. 

Missing majesty

Barbary lions originally roamed northern Africa, from Morocco to Egypt. But they were declared extinct in the wild in 1922, after centuries of over-exploitation and habitat destruction by humans.

Some people think it might be possible to bring Barbary lions back by selectively breeding captive animals thought to be descendants of Barbary lions. The question remains whether we should even if we could, particularly if their natural habitat couldn't support their reintroduction to the wild. 

Instead, Richard believes we can learn a lesson from the Museum specimens:

'Humans decimated populations of Barbary lions and pushed them into extinction. The fact that we hold their remains in our Museum collections means researchers have the opportunity to extract scientific data and put them into a modern context, using them to look at closely related species that may be heading for extinction and potentially helping to slow or halt those extinctions.'

This is the article, with the measurements of the skull: 

Ancient DNA analysis indicates the first English lions originated from North Africa Barnett et al., 2008

Abstract:
"The Royal Menagerie of England was established at the Tower of London in the 13th Century and served as a home of exotic animals until it was closed on behalf of the Duke of Wellington in 1835. Two well-preserved lion skulls recovered from the moat of the Tower of London were recently radiocarbon-dated to AD 1280-1385 and AD 1420-1480, making them the earliest confirmed lion remains in the British Isles since the extinction of the Pleistocene cave lion. Using ancient DNA techniques and cranio-morphometric analysis, we identify the source of these first English lions to lie in North Africa, where no natural lion population remains today."



Whoa great info on this.  Cuz this could mean that lion in the london towers was malnourished to, an the two tigers were fresh from the wild in much betta shape.  Check it out, you probably seen it, but its Towers of London lion, some bros were sayin it was asiatic though named George, but either way it was probably not healthy cuz of this new info you guys produced, great job.  I think back then they just werent at good at keepin the wild animals as they are now, confine & them to these small enclosures.  Heres that link I found on some another site, this is Towers of London lion, with fresh wild tigers brought in, its a really great account, cuz its wild tigers, an everyone wants to know what would happen with wild tigers, so this is ok to discuss cuz it being wild, an both the males were goin at it.


https://books.google.com/books?id=5AssXd...CCUQ6AEwAA[/url#v=onepage&q=fight%20in%20the%20tower%20lion%20tiger&f=false
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United States Garfield Offline
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#18

(08-27-2017, 10:26 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Here is a fossilized Barbary lion skull that dated about 100kya.

Although the measurement got wrong, but I think this skull is still about 16 inches which is comparable to a very large male African lion.



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author

Hey does it say the skull is wide to, cuz I seen some dudes on another site sayin the barbarys gut the wider skulls not sure about that tho?  Um not up to snuff on the skull stuff, dont have all the data like u guys gut.
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Israel Amnon242 Offline
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#19

Tiger vs lion fight again? You must be obsessed...
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Portugal Michael Offline
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#20

(08-28-2017, 02:58 AM)Garfield Wrote:
(08-27-2017, 10:26 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Here is a fossilized Barbary lion skull that dated about 100kya.

Although the measurement got wrong, but I think this skull is still about 16 inches which is comparable to a very large male African lion.



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author

Hey does it say the skull is wide to, cuz I seen some dudes on another site sayin the barbarys gut the wider skulls not sure about that tho?  Um not up to snuff on the skull stuff, dont have all the data like u guys gut.
That lion has four pairs of canines ?
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#21
( This post was last modified: 08-28-2017, 04:43 AM by GrizzlyClaws )

It mostly belongs to an old male lion whose canine teeth were severely worn down.

The skull is 16 inches long and very robust built, maybe this specimen could weigh about 600 pounds during his prime.
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#22

(08-27-2017, 10:26 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Although the measurement got wrong, but I think this skull is still about 16 inches which is comparable to a very large male African lion.



*This image is copyright of its original author
Check how large int he snouth of the lion, this skull correctly measured was about 15 - 15.5 inches (380 - 393 mm). 

Question, do you have the original source of the skull? I don't think is 100,000 years old; as far I know there are no excavations searching Upper Pleistocene mammals, specially lions, in the regions where the Barbary lions lived.
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#23

(10-06-2018, 10:59 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(08-27-2017, 10:26 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Although the measurement got wrong, but I think this skull is still about 16 inches which is comparable to a very large male African lion.



*This image is copyright of its original author
Check how large int he snouth of the lion, this skull correctly measured was about 15 - 15.5 inches (380 - 393 mm). 

Question, do you have the original source of the skull? I don't think is 100,000 years old; as far I know there are no excavations searching Upper Pleistocene mammals, specially lions, in the regions where the Barbary lions lived.

@tigerluver is now becoming an acquaintance with the owner, but he could help to consult more information about that skull?
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India Sanju Offline
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#24
( This post was last modified: 01-31-2019, 09:40 AM by Sanju )

Morocco mission to rescue last of the Atlas lions
October 3, 2012 by Jalal Al-makhfi


*This image is copyright of its original author

Barbary lions, also known as Atlas lions, play in their enclosure at Rabat zoo. Almost a century after a French colonial hunter put a bullet in what came to be viewed as the last Atlas lion living in the wild, a Moroccan zoo is struggling to claw the subspecies back from the brink of extinction.

Almost a century after a French colonial hunter put a bullet in what came to be viewed as the last Atlas lion living in the wild, a Moroccan zoo is struggling to claw the fabled subspecies back from the brink of extinction.

The majestic animal, also known as the Barbary lion and once common across north Africa, was eventually declared extinct after the 1922 hunt that saw it vanish from its natural environment.

But, remarkably, a few dozen individuals survived in captivity, and the newly opened Rabat zoo is fighting to save the bloodline and raise numbers to a viable population.

"For a long time, it was thought that the species had disappeared. But it turned out that Sultan Mohammed V (the current king's grandfather) had some Atlas lions in his private park," said Abderrahim Salhi, the zoo's head of operations.

The exotic park of the sultan, who became king at independence, had been supplied by tribesmen who hunted the mountain predators and offered them to their ruler as a tribute and proof of allegiance.

"After Morocco's independence (in 1956), the Atlas lions from the royal park formed the nucleus of the zoo and became a symbol of pride," Salhi said.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Barbary lions, also known as Atlas lions, play at their enclosure at Rabat zoo. "For a long time, it was thought that the species had disappeared. But it turned out that Sultan Mohammed V (the current king's grandfather) had some Atlas lions in his private park," said the head of Rabat zoo.

Today, this symbolism appears on the monarch's coat of arms, which depicts two lions protecting a crown, and the Moroccan football team carries their name, Atlas Lions, along with the hopes of the football-loving nation.

The male Atlas lion is distinguished by its long dark mane, which extends down its back and under its belly, and by its muscular build and dexterity, thought to have evolved from its life of hunting and climbing in the mountains.

Some observers say it is larger than its sub-Saharan relatives, weighing 225 kilos (500 pounds) or more, though the claim is disputed.

The newly renovated Rabat zoo opened earlier this year, an event followed by the birth of three lion cubs at the facility.

Staff described their arrival as a "joyous event."

"These cubs are the direct descendants of the Atlas lions, because like most of the cubs and lions here, they are a pure breed. They are not mixed," said Salhi, who personally supervised the birth of the three cubs.

The zoo itself "now has 32 lions, which is around half of the number remaining worldwide," he added, the rest being found in zoos elsewhere in Morocco and in Europe.

But for all they represent, the future of Morocco's mightiest predator is far from assured.


*This image is copyright of its original author

The male Atlas lion is distinguished by its long dark mane, which extends down its back and under its belly, and by its muscular build and dexterity, thought to have evolved from its life of hunting and climbing in the mountains.

Various factors drove the north African lions to extinction in the wild, notably the deforestation of the Atlas mountains and the influx of firearms throughout the 19th century, with people hunting the big cats for their fur and for sport.

They had already vanished in large numbers many hundreds of years earlier, captured and shipped to ancient Rome, where they provided grisly entertainment in the Colosseum and other amphitheatres around the empire.

Starved and angry, the lions were unleashed on combatants and condemned criminals, as depicted in the 19th-century French Orientalist painting "Christian Martyrs' Last Prayer", which shows a Barbary animal emerging from a pit to attack a group of Christians.

A less disturbing image meets visitors to the 50-hectare (125-acre) zoo outside Rabat, where the adult lions rest in the shade as the cubs romp nearby.

The park is home to nearly 1,200 animals, made up of around 120 separate African species, including white rhinos, elephants, hippos and cheetahs.

There are also plans to open a "night zoo" for nocturnal creatures including panthers.

But the task of preserving the Atlas lion and boosting its numbers, in collaboration with other zoos around the world, remains a key objective for the park officials.

"It is a big challenge," Salhi said. "Our priority is their protection."

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2012-10-morocco-mission-atlas-lions.html#jCp
When Need turns to Greed, our Extinction happens.
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United States Lycaon Offline
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#25

I am still hoping that there are some living in the atlas mountains.
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#26

@Sanju :

About #24: I would like so much it could be a success ! The Barbary lions, exterminated by the french settlers during all the XIXth century were admired by all the artists of the Romantism period... Painted works by Delacroix and Gericault, sculptures by Barry...

In case:

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-nature-...art?page=5

At the #74 and #75

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-siz...=Delacroix

At the #55 and #57

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...x#pid49238

At #1408
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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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#27
( This post was last modified: 05-23-2019, 03:41 PM by BorneanTiger )

(01-31-2019, 01:14 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Sanju :

About #24: I would like so much it could be a success ! The Barbary lions, exterminated by the french settlers during all the XIXth century were admired by all the artists of the Romantism period... Painted works by Delacroix and Gericault, sculptures by Barry...

In case:

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-nature-...art?page=5

At the #74 and #75

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-siz...=Delacroix

At the #55 and #57

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...x#pid49238

At #1408

Forward from (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-siz...ion?page=5), the place to where Marcelin Flandrin flew from Dakar in 1925, while taking the last known photo of a wild Atlas lion (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl...ne.0060174), that is Casablanca, could hold the key: 

*This image is copyright of its original author


Casablanca has more than one zoo that was claimed to have Atlas lions: Parc Sindibad Zoo (https://www.journeybeyondtravel.com/blog...rocco.htmlhttps://www.tripadvisor.fr/LocationPhoto...2-d8610479, https://www.tripadvisor.fr/LocationPhoto...egion.html), Aïn Sebaâ Zoo (which had been poorly maintained (https://www.leconomiste.com/article/9174...ent-t-vacuhttp://forceanimalintervention.over-blog...41855.htmlhttps://observers.france24.com/en/201403...ap-animals), but is now being renovated: https://www.casa-amenagement.ma/en/nos-p...-ain-sebaa), and at Dream Village (where animals at Aïn Sebaâ were transferred to: https://lematin.ma/journal/2014/casablan...06795.html).

Parc Sindibad Zoo: http://parcsindibad.ma/afrique-sauvage/

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author





Aïn Sebaâ Zoo: 




Dream Village Zoo: 




I came across an interesting document about the history of the Royal Moroccan lions and Casablanca (pages 469470: https://www.researchgate.net/publication...on_Project). It says that Moroccan Monarchs are believed to have kept lions that were descended from lions caught from the Atlas Mountains, and that when Sultan Sidi Mohammed Ben Youssef (also known as King Mohammed V) abdicated and went into exile in 1953, 3 of his 21 lions in Rabat were transferred to a zoo in Casablanca, with the others being transferred to a zoo at Meknès, and then upon the return of the Sultan to Rabat in 1955, the lions at Meknès were returned to Rabat, but not those at Casablanca:
   
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United States Lycaon Offline
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#28

@BorneanTiger 

These lions do look different from the Rabat zoo types and seem more robust . Additionally these could be possibly pure with no west african maternal side.
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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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#29
( This post was last modified: 06-03-2019, 12:12 PM by BorneanTiger )

This is Tizi n'Tichka, a mountain pass measuring 2.26 km high, in the High Atlas Mountains of Morocco to the southwest of Marrakesh, near where the last known wild lion was shot in 1942 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3616087/). Photo by Dangerous Roadshttps://www.dangerousroads.org/africa/mo...ichka.html

*This image is copyright of its original author
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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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#30
( This post was last modified: 06-03-2019, 02:09 PM by BorneanTiger )

Did you know? The mannequin representing the "Arab courier" in this famous diorama of taxidermied 'Barbary' lions attacking a dromedary from the 19th Century had a real human skull with teeth, apparently from a member of the San community which inhabits Southern Africa, including the Kalahari region: http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-s...cle/484609

Before restoration in 2016: 

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