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B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India
B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India
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B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India
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Give it a few years, and you will soon see that tigers from Panna are the largest from Central India (some of the current females are already very impressive). Madla, Julie, Hairyfoot were big specimens not by sheer chance but because of their environment. And, even T3 went from an average tiger from Pench to a large tiger in Panna. Really glad that the translocation has worked so well.
As for Pannalal, to establish and continue his presence in Bandhavgarh is a great sign for Panna. 
Without good genetics, large tiger offspring is not possible. T3 is just average tiger from pench. He peaked 240kg at his prime, like most of the other territorial males in central india. But, nothing special about his genes. There were 2 group of male genes introduced in panna. T3 and other one is from last panna male. The last panna male was very massive male. The re-introduced kanha tigress(T2) mated with him to produce p211-214. The pannalal was born to p213 female. That's likely the reason he ended up being bigger than other tigers. It's good that the original panna gene is preserved.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...t_programs https://www.researchgate.net/publication...DESH_INDIA The last panna male: http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in.../Panna.pdf  (07-20-2020, 01:29 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Give it a few years, and you will soon see that tigers from Panna are the largest from Central India (some of the current females are already very impressive). Madla, Julie, Hairyfoot were big specimens not by sheer chance but because of their environment. And, even T3 went from an average tiger from Pench to a large tiger in Panna. Really glad that the translocation has worked so well. Pannalal hasn't been seen for some time and he was actually outsized by Bheem according to photographers who've seen both. I doubt Panna will produce larger cats than Kanha simply due to prey biomass, especially large prey. It will take a long time for them to repopulate a healthy population.
Here's another who said the same
 *This image is copyright of its original author
bheem is older than pannalal who could of outsized him at peak..we won't know though since he hasn't been seen for a while now
I'm not sure he would of ever had the frame size to compare to Bheem.
He could look like a tank when full but his bone density and frame didn't seem to be on that next level, he did have a large head compared to his body though.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
@Pckts, Dudhwa has a prey base not at par with Kanha, but are Kanha tigers bigger? I take your point but it’s not JUST based on that. My inkling is based upon the size of females in Panna. Some of them easily match females of Kanha, outsize them even.
As for Pannalal and Bheem, you are comparing a young Pannalal to probably one of the biggest tiger in Central India in his prime (if not the biggest). I am not saying he would have ever matched the likes of Bheem, but, to establish yourself in Bandhavgarh at a young age is decent. If anything, that augurs very well that a few years since reintroduction, a young male can go into an environment like Bandhavgarh and make it there. @GreenForest, Umarpani male was born to a huge tigress and an average sized male (Munna was exceptional for his size though). And, he was the least impressive of his litter, with his sister almost matching her huge mother and his brother outsizing him. I don’t think his siblings made it, but, imagine Umarpani male as the least impressive member of a litter!!! Dominant genes will come through, they always do. It may take some time, though. As for T3, tigers don’t peak in size at age 10, 6-8 is their peak. At Pench, he was just another average sized male (200 kilos is below average actually, compare it to a 2 year old MB2 who was 195 kilos), but a 240 kilo T3 would probably be one of the 3 biggest males in Pench (along with Handsome Male and Raiyakassa). This is just a personal opinion, but, I am not sure he would have reached that weight had he been at Pench. (07-20-2020, 08:10 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: @Pckts, Dudhwa has a prey base not at par with Kanha, but are Kanha tigers bigger? I take your point but it’s not JUST based on that. My inkling is based upon the size of females in Panna. Some of them easily match females of Kanha, outsize them even. Dudhwa may not have the prey base to compare to Kanha but they do have a large prey base and with the reintroduction of Rhino as well as Elephant, they still have plenty of large prey available. And like Kanha, they also have Barasingha as well. Dudhwa is also cool with lots of water, something that also contributes to larger cats. Pannalal was only seen for a short period of time, I'm not sure how much establishing he actually did but as young Tigers, Mr. X and Mahaman both carved out territory in Bandhavgarh and same with B2 or Bamera. Even Bheem came on strong as a youngster and ousted Jobhi and Bamera. Maybe Pannalal still had some growing to do but he was pretty large so I'm not sure how much more he is actually going to grow in frame and from the videos I've seen of him, he was certainly a heavy cat but didn't look especially large in frame. In regards to the Biggest males in Pench, 100% Tarzan was the largest, Handsome looks very large as well but I'd wager on Muktar being larger than he. Both Ryakassi and BMW were both similar in size but much smaller than Sangam male from Kanha for comparison. I got to see Handsome's son and daughters, all were about 2 years old and very robust, healthy cats but didn't look to be extraordinary in their size, the male was probably around 180kg so I'd imagine he gets up to 220kg at full strength. It's a shame he's not seen now, he was a Handsome just like his dad.
Abhishek Singh
Bali, son of Jai  *This image is copyright of its original author
@Pckts, fair points. A few things I don’t agree with. Dudhwa has 40 odd rhinos, they are not a prey base, whereas Elephants shouldn’t be counted as one either across any tiger range (the numbers of elephants preyed upon are too small to constitute a prey base), plus the elephant numbers themselves in Dudhwa are a fraction when compared to Kabini or Rajaji. As for the temperature of reserves, Dudhwa is definitely cooler, but, amongst the Central Indian Reserves, Panna records the lowest average temperatures as it is the northernmost Central Indian Reserve and has lots of water sources including a big river flowing right through it (Satpura is the only other central Indian park with a comparable river through it).
I agree with your point about Pannalal not being the biggest, but he hadn’t even reached his peak as he was about 5.5 years old when he went missing, he was just entering his prime and if his size trajectory took after T3, he would have put on a lot more weight yet. I don’t know if he was poached like Chotta Munna or succumbed to a rival. Either way, a big loss. As for comparisons with other parks, my prediction of Panna tigers and them reverting back to their old weights was based upon the size of females of Panna, rather than the males. You can compare the females of Panna to any other reserve from Central India, and they stack up favourably.
@Ashutosh
The Rhino Introduction program does have a minimal number of specimens but predation on them is significant for the amount they have. Elephant seem to be doing much better there now with an estimated 225 individuals in 2019 https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bareilly/dudhwa-shows-jumbo-surge-count-goes-up-by-80-in-three-years/articleshow/69614658.cms And while adults should be immune for the most part, young and sub adult should contribute a bit a long with carcasses from natural deaths. While I am also under the impression that Dudhwa Tigers look larger than Kanha, that hasn't been confirmed. I've asked people who've seen both and I haven't gotten a straight answer more so than implications. According to Dr. Y. V. Jhala the largest tiger weighed by him was in Kanha and that was a 290kg, full bellied male. That would be a modern day record other than Wasif's 300kg+ Males which aren't confirmed but do come from a valid source.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author In regards to Panna Tigers, maybe once they were the largest in C. India, but they were decimated and now their population is too low to be considered in that Tier in my opinion. The females to me look more like Bandhavgarh females than Kanha, they seem more robust but smaller in frame and muscle definition. Maybe the elevation of Kanha contributes to a more muscular tiger? I know P212 was a 218kg Male  *This image is copyright of its original author and he was killed by SD005 They used to say the largest Male in Panna in 2018 was this fella, P112 Jignesh Gada "It was my Dream to Photograph PTR Biggest Male Tiger & it was sucessful after 4 yrs and on my 12th Visit to Panna. As this Male is T1 Tigress 1st Litters 2nd Cub called as P112 is one of the king of Panna Forest and he is male dominat of the Park. Till date he have no challenger and hence freely roams all the part of the Park. P112 Male Tiger Panna Tiger Reserve, MP 29th April"  *This image is copyright of its original author But their weights don't seem anything extraordinary now a days, at least when compared to Kanha  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
Ankit Bakde
Chandrapur, Maharashtra The Old Man still kicking  *This image is copyright of its original author
After hairyfoot, madla, Wagdoh is undoubtedly largest tiger in Central India. Long, Tall, very bigger framed beast on par with Kaziranga giants. Tigers weight fluctuate in different seasons, but Wagdoh is the only tiger who looked larger in all seasons.
As for bandhavgarh, The charger-b2 dynasty tigers have shorter body but muscular. They rely on muscles to showcase their weight. That is their genetical drawback as well. In their lean seasons, they look small. Bheem come from this dynasty. Pannalal, Jobhi are pretty larger than bheem in my opinion. |
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