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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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 (10-05-2019, 10:17 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: We have accounts of large Asiatic lions in the past, even outside their current range in the Indian State of Gujarat: Actually, the report of Tom Brakefiled, which is a copy-paste from Wood (1978) is incorrect. In fact Divyabhanusinh (2005) corrected those figures. The correct weight was 255 kg and the length was of 9 ft 4 in or about 2.85 meters (page 95). Certainly, the lions in India were as large as those from Africa, based in old pictures, but there was no such thing as a male of 300 kg, at least reliable recorded. Modern Indian lions, just like the modern Amur tigers, are smaller then they old brothers, with none recorded over 190 kg.  (10-05-2019, 10:54 AM)Rishi Wrote:(10-04-2019, 10:36 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: Asiatic lions are smaller than African lions. What about lions lived in other Asia? Lions in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, and other Asian countries. As far as I know, Iraq has swamp region name, Mesopotamian Marshes map. It is similar to Okavango delta, Los Llanos, Sudd, and Pantanal. Or what about European lions lived in Greece or southern Balkan until Roman killed them all. So lions in central India were bigger than lions in Gujarat, Pakistan, and Afghanistan? Tigrs were still bigger than lions in Indo-Gangetic plains or central India? I never heard lion record in Afghanistan. I thought lions in India and Pakistan were separated populations from lions in Iran, Iraq, and other Middle East. (10-05-2019, 10:17 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(10-04-2019, 10:36 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: Asiatic lions are smaller than African lions. What about lions lived in other Asia? Lions in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, and other Asian countries. As far as I know, Iraq has swamp region name, Mesopotamian Marshes map. It is similar to Okavango delta, Los Llanos, Sudd, and Pantanal. Or what about European lions lived in Greece or southern Balkan until Roman killed them all. I would not trust any lion size from the 17th century. They probably used different metric system than today's metric system. The same for lion from 1841. I don't think you can tell exact alone lion size if it was just alone. For sure, lion I saw in zoo was big as well. If it was next to other lions, then I could't find it bigger since it looks the same size as other lions next to it. (10-07-2019, 10:07 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-05-2019, 10:17 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: We have accounts of large Asiatic lions in the past, even outside their current range in the Indian State of Gujarat: I don't think you can trust it from just seeing old photos. People are taller these days. Also, I've never seen any Gujarati who were taller than 6ft in my life. That's why old Asiatic lion photos with British looks smaller than lions next to Indian royals.  (10-10-2019, 12:32 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: So lions in central India were bigger than lions in Gujarat, Pakistan, and Afghanistan? Tigrs were still bigger than lions in Indo-Gangetic plains or central India? Not Central but northern Indian subcontinent, the region of Punjab & Ganga-Yamuna basin, that i described above. Not much is known about the lions in Central India other than their presence there. From their local cultural impact it is very likely that they made little headway there other than the few narrow rivers valleys between the hill ranges... these actually has been discussed in details earlier this thread. You should start back at the beginning & read through it first. (And the thread: Lion & tigers in India) Agricultural areas shown in yellow were lowlands with plenty of natural grassland, some parts along floodplains completely dominated by it like whatever remains in Terai & Northeast India.   *This image is copyright of its original author Afghanistan (southern only) & Balochistan being very dry & barren regions were historically sparsely populated by lions, separating the larger populations in India & Mesopotamia/Persia. But there are historical artifacts & records (one of the last reports of Asiatic lions outside Gujarat was from Balochistan, 1935) that can be found on internet... Search a bit. For example this figurine from 200AD Gandhara (Kingdom around of modern Kabul & Khyber pass, eastern Afghanistan):  *This image is copyright of its original author (10-10-2019, 09:09 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: Anyone can find fight video of male Asiatic lions? There are only two available videos of confrontations available online. They're are several photos & one full photo sequence in this thread. One of them is a very rare & previously unknown video I've recently found!.. Two most famous of Gir's dominant males of the previous generation, Maulana & Raju came face to face at the edge of their respective territories. Very tiger-like on there being no actual physical contact, just posturing. There are other very short clips of one new male establishing dominance over members of his conquered pride;
Those videos are very bad quality. I wish I can see territory fighting between Asiatic lions.
(10-10-2019, 02:10 PM)Rishi Wrote:(10-10-2019, 12:32 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: So lions in central India were bigger than lions in Gujarat, Pakistan, and Afghanistan? Tigrs were still bigger than lions in Indo-Gangetic plains or central India? I read it, but it didn't answered my question. My question was which animal was bigger and stronger? If Asiatic lions were smaller than African lions, and tiges were similar size as the central Indian lion. Then lion is suppose to be the biggest cat. Which animal dominated in the central India? These were my questions. I think lions were winner since they are social animals. Maybe not if it is one against one if it is true that lion is the second biggest. However, it is mystery that they disappeared in Asia. (10-11-2019, 12:01 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: I read it, but it didn't answered my question. My question was which animal was bigger and stronger? If Asiatic lions were smaller than African lions, and tiges were similar size as the central Indian lion. Then lion is suppose to be the biggest cat. Which animal dominated in the central India? These were my questions. I think lions were winner since they are social animals. Maybe not if it is one against one if it is true that lion is the second biggest. However, it is mystery that they disappeared in Asia.  *This image is copyright of its original author As i said, whatever query you have has been addressed as much as possible with the limited data available, back in this very thread. But you won't have your answers unless you take the effort of looking for it. I'd found & shared a link in my last response; Quote:...these actually has been discussed in detail earlier this thread. You should start back at the beginning & read through it first. (And the thread: Lion & tigers in India) On the possibile reason for their extinctions in Asia's civilisation-cradles. I found one discussion in Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project. ...And their comparable weight was just discussed in Tiger's Weights & Measurements thread <follow the link. 
Persian miniature from the 16th century showing a lion (bottom right with an onager (Asiatic wild ass)) hunted along with a cheetah or leopard (top middle), pages 80–81: https://books.google.com/books?id=esV0hc...&q&f=false
(10-10-2019, 01:02 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: I don't think you can trust it from just seeing old photos. People are taller these days. Also, I've never seen any Gujarati who were taller than 6ft in my life. That's why old Asiatic lion photos with British looks smaller than lions next to Indian royals. The pictures that I have saw are from Indian people, not brithis people. Those lions look as big as any African lion that I have saw, suggesting that they were probably much larger than your 140-190 kg modern males. (10-11-2019, 12:01 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: I read it, but it didn't answered my question. My question was which animal was bigger and stronger? If Asiatic lions were smaller than African lions, and tiges were similar size as the central Indian lion. Then lion is suppose to be the biggest cat. Which animal dominated in the central India? These were my questions. I think lions were winner since they are social animals. Maybe not if it is one against one if it is true that lion is the second biggest. However, it is mystery that they disappeared in Asia. "Stronger" is a very relative word, something that can't be calculated reliably specially for wild animals, which sheldom use they entire strength capacity. In fact, a jaguar will be "stronger" than a lion in relative terms but in absolute terms the lion is the stronger and heavier of the two. Even it is say that the small black footed cat is the strongest cat! So ask for the "stronger" animal is irrelevant. Who is/was bigger in the Indian Subcontinent? The tiger is the obvious answer, even taking all the hunting and scientific records (160 - 255 kg for lion vs 160 - 320 kg for tiger), or only the scientific records (145 - 190 kg for lion vs 180 - 261 kg for tiger). Central Indian male tigers had an average weight of 204 kg (n=55, range: 160 - 255 kg), but this sample included inmature animals, as the adult male tiger over 3 years old weights between 200 - 260 kg (Jhala and Sadhu, 2017), although in some cases they may weight as low as 180 kg, like in the case of the males "Gabbar" from Tadoba and "Dakre" (a.k.a. M102) from Nepal (baited weight of 200 kg). Indian male lions had an average weight of 177 kg (n=11, range: 145 - 255 kg), but this sample includes the male of 255 kg from 1623, so is a real "guess" to see IF this figures is realiable or not. Who dominated? We don't know as there is no reliable information about the coexistence of lions and tigers in India (Karanth, 2001). The only thing that we know is that there was a pretty good ecological separation between these two species, with tigers living in the close jungle habitat and the lions in the open grass habitat (Mitra, 2005). There was no need of direct competition. However, it is accepted that in "lion habitat" the lion will be dominant because they live in groups (Karanth, 2001), but in the "tiger habitat", a solitary lion will be no match for a solitary tiger (Thapar et al., 2013). I don't think that there is a "mystery" about the reason why the lion disappeared in Asia, the must accepted theory is the overhunting of the species. This make sence, as all the big cats species had dissapeared for these same reason in all the world. (10-14-2019, 10:41 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-11-2019, 12:01 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: I read it, but it didn't answered my question. My question was which animal was bigger and stronger? If Asiatic lions were smaller than African lions, and tiges were similar size as the central Indian lion. Then lion is suppose to be the biggest cat. Which animal dominated in the central India? These were my questions. I think lions were winner since they are social animals. Maybe not if it is one against one if it is true that lion is the second biggest. However, it is mystery that they disappeared in Asia. I was referring to lions lived in only in central India. Asiatic lions lived in the central India weighed 177 kg? Craig Packers and Minnesota University's lion researchers believe lions will most likely dominate in the region since they believe lion is experiencing more fighting experiences. I disagree with them. My opinion is their social lifestyle. I think there is more than overhunting of the species. It is true that lions were gone in India due to overhunting by British and Indian royals. My statement was lions lived in Middle East, Iran to Turkey or Sinai Peninsula. (10-14-2019, 09:34 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-10-2019, 01:02 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: I don't think you can trust it from just seeing old photos. People are taller these days. Also, I've never seen any Gujarati who were taller than 6ft in my life. That's why old Asiatic lion photos with British looks smaller than lions next to Indian royals. There are old photos from British people. |
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