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Ape Strength: Myth vs Reality

United States Polar Offline
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(09-30-2019, 12:56 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:45 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:31 AM)Roberto Wrote: a silverback gorilla would be able to drag any animal a lion or tiger drags. It just does not need to.

It´s easy to claim. Can you explain how smaller animal could do the same as bigger? I am curious to see if you have anything to back up that.

A gorilla wouldn't be able to drag comparable weights as a big cat nor would a big cat be able to lift comparable weights as a gorilla. It's not a matter of strength but more so a matter of morphology.
Gorillas having long arms, huge lats and traps and short legs will be able to lift "deadlift" far more weight off the ground while big cats having flexible spines, being quadrupedal and having claws for gripping will be able to drag far more weight. 
It's like saying "a big cat cant climb as well as a great ape so that makes a great ape stronger"

There's multiple factors that go into it.

Completely agree with this. One, like humans, is more built for vertical loading while the cat is built for more horizontal loading (i.e dragging a carcass through thick jungle).
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Australia Verdugo Offline
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I just came across this video



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Ybj2bTeR4

At 1:30, a Silverback snapped a bamboo shaft like a toothpick. I know Bamboos are kinda tough. What do you guys think? How impressive/unimpressive this feat really is?
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Finland Shadow Offline
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(12-27-2019, 10:15 AM)Verdugo Wrote: I just came across this video



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Ybj2bTeR4

At 1:30, a Silverback snapped a bamboo shaft like a toothpick. I know Bamboos are kinda tough. What do you guys think? How impressive/unimpressive this feat really is?

That was interesting. It looks like, that gorilla had bitten off something, when it turns that bamboo after snapping it. I have never seen footage in which gorilla would have just snapped a bamboo without weakening it first in some way. And looks like, that something had done to that bamboo too, just not visible right away before snapping it. Still that is impressive, no doubt about it that it demands strength to do that. Also that gorilla seemed to know exactly how to snap bamboo, when looking at it. It snapped it (imo) at certain point for purpose.

For me this is clear show of strength, but not proving any.... "superstrength" when comparing to other animals. Anyway this kind of footage is always interesting to see and nice find.
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Finland Shadow Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-27-2019, 10:54 PM by Shadow )

(12-27-2019, 10:15 AM)Verdugo Wrote: I just came across this video



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Ybj2bTeR4

At 1:30, a Silverback snapped a bamboo shaft like a toothpick. I know Bamboos are kinda tough. What do you guys think? How impressive/unimpressive this feat really is?

One video to show why I´m always a bit skeptical when not seeing all what happens. This is not the same as what that gorilla did, but demonstrates a bit about it, that also with bamboo when knowing what to do it can be weakened quite easily. But I´m not bamboo expert, here might be someone else with better knowledge.




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Korea, Republic of Mushroom Offline
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An impressive kick.
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Finland Shadow Offline
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(04-12-2020, 11:33 AM)Mushroom Wrote:




An impressive kick.

Yeah, those glasses break time to time. Gorillas are 150-200 kg, so they have a lot of weight behind kick even when kick itself is quite normal looking. There is a video showing how small monkey break glass of its enclosure by small hit with stone in the hand. Sometimes hit on the right spot and that´s it. Those glasses can be shattered easily if there is some manufacturing defect and also with time they can be weakened to the point, that at one point there comes that final hit making it happen.

I don´t know how often they replace those glasses or do they wait, until broken before changing to new one.
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United States Stripedlion2 Offline
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(04-12-2019, 11:34 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 04:08 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).
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United States Stripedlion2 Offline
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(09-28-2019, 02:18 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-28-2019, 12:45 AM)Sully Wrote: I have to agree with shadow. The very fact that gorilla vs brown bear is popular and considered a debateable topic by many shows how overrated they are. Many dont even know they're preyed upon by leopards. In fact I think they might be the most overrated animal, and I'm a fan of the great apes.

Gorillas are very interesting. Just surrounded a lot of myths, whatever is the reason. Seems to be difficult to find real information, which would be more than guessing when talking about strength.
Because pop culture depicts them as aggressive jiu jitsu behemoths that fight off multiple animals like King Kong when in reality they are very peaceful and are outclass by large bovines, large herbivores, mid to large sized bears and most big cats. 
If Bigfoot was real that’s how we would depict them too because it fascinates us.
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johnny rex Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-08-2020, 10:22 AM by johnny rex )

(09-08-2020, 08:20 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(09-28-2019, 02:18 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-28-2019, 12:45 AM)Sully Wrote: I have to agree with shadow. The very fact that gorilla vs brown bear is popular and considered a debateable topic by many shows how overrated they are. Many dont even know they're preyed upon by leopards. In fact I think they might be the most overrated animal, and I'm a fan of the great apes.

Gorillas are very interesting. Just surrounded a lot of myths, whatever is the reason. Seems to be difficult to find real information, which would be more than guessing when talking about strength.
Because pop culture depicts them as aggressive jiu jitsu behemoths that fight off multiple animals like King Kong when in reality they are very peaceful and are outclass by large bovines, large herbivores, mid to large sized bears and most big cats. 
If Bigfoot was real that’s how we would depict them too because it fascinates us.

King Kong fighting multiple theropods that are larger than him but still somehow weaker than Kong himself, especially in the 2005 Peter Jackson's remake, is just pure entertainment. Which is of course contain lots of exaggerations and whatnot  Lol
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Finland Shadow Offline
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(09-08-2020, 08:10 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 11:34 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 04:08 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).

Gorillas are naturally very robust. Shorter but then again naturally weighing 150-200 kg while these strongmen have to use steroids etc. to get there. I think, that what comes to strength there aren´t big differences between strongest strongmen and gorillas in it, that how much they could lift etc. But while these strongmen are in that condition relatively clumsy, gorillas are fast and agile with stronger bone structure etc. I assume, that gorillas are a bit stronger too, even though differences are smaller than many think. But overall simply physically superior, I wouldn´t put any man with bear hands in the same cage with an angry gorilla, no matter if some "Hafthor" or "Bruce Lee", it would be too cruel for people :)
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johnny rex Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
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(09-08-2020, 11:37 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 08:10 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 11:34 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 04:08 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).

Gorillas are naturally very robust. Shorter but then again naturally weighing 150-200 kg while these strongmen have to use steroids etc. to get there. I think, that what comes to strength there aren´t big differences between strongest strongmen and gorillas in it, that how much they could lift etc. But while these strongmen are in that condition relatively clumsy, gorillas are fast and agile with stronger bone structure etc. I assume, that gorillas are a bit stronger too, even though differences are smaller than many think. But overall simply physically superior, I wouldn´t put any man with bear hands in the same cage with an angry gorilla, no matter if some "Hafthor" or "Bruce Lee", it would be too cruel for people :)

I believe the strongest gorilla is a bit stronger than strongmen, as their skeletons are much heavier thus denser. Even an average gorilla that weigh 310 lbs and more, compared to an average man which is usually around 190-200 lbs, have heavier skeletons that add to the total weight of the gorilla.
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United States Stripedlion2 Offline
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(09-08-2020, 11:37 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 08:10 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 11:34 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 04:08 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).

Gorillas are naturally very robust. Shorter but then again naturally weighing 150-200 kg while these strongmen have to use steroids etc. to get there. I think, that what comes to strength there aren´t big differences between strongest strongmen and gorillas in it, that how much they could lift etc. But while these strongmen are in that condition relatively clumsy, gorillas are fast and agile with stronger bone structure etc. I assume, that gorillas are a bit stronger too, even though differences are smaller than many think. But overall simply physically superior, I wouldn´t put any man with bear hands in the same cage with an angry gorilla, no matter if some "Hafthor" or "Bruce Lee", it would be too cruel for people :)
Yea gorillas run 20-25 mph and I don’t know how fast strongmen run probably not over 20mph . But it would be interesting to see a large male orangutan compared to a large gorilla and a strongman. Gorillas are built bulky to keep predators away and they’re mostly herbivores. They only have one predator and that’s the leopard which  range of 40-80kg but the largest males reach around 90-100kg , they mostly hunt young ones but even males can be killed.
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Finland Shadow Offline
Contributor
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(09-08-2020, 10:44 PM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 11:37 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 08:10 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 11:34 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 04:08 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).

Gorillas are naturally very robust. Shorter but then again naturally weighing 150-200 kg while these strongmen have to use steroids etc. to get there. I think, that what comes to strength there aren´t big differences between strongest strongmen and gorillas in it, that how much they could lift etc. But while these strongmen are in that condition relatively clumsy, gorillas are fast and agile with stronger bone structure etc. I assume, that gorillas are a bit stronger too, even though differences are smaller than many think. But overall simply physically superior, I wouldn´t put any man with bear hands in the same cage with an angry gorilla, no matter if some "Hafthor" or "Bruce Lee", it would be too cruel for people :)
Yea gorillas run 20-25 mph and I don’t know how fast strongmen run probably not over 20mph . But it would be interesting to see a large male orangutan compared to a large gorilla and a strongman. Gorillas are built bulky to keep predators away and they’re mostly herbivores. They only have one predator and that’s the leopard which  range of 40-80kg but the largest males reach around 90-100kg , they mostly hunt young ones but even males can be killed.

I didn´t mean running speed at all. I mean how they move overall.

Like in this video, in which two gorillas are slapping each others a bit. Could you imagine strongmen move their 150-200 kg bodies making it look so effortless. I can´t.





Or if you compare to even bigger boys, like these bears. 





They look big and clumsy, but when they go for it, their movements are so quick. That kind of mixture of tremendous strength combined to such speed is impressive. Without a gun any strongman would be like a child in hands of an adult. If those two, Hafthor and... Hall (wasn´t it him?) have that boxing fight some day, it will be comical to compare to these animals, when looking at how slow they will be in their movements.
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United States Stripedlion2 Offline
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(09-08-2020, 11:53 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 10:44 PM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 11:37 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 08:10 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 11:34 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 04:08 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).

Gorillas are naturally very robust. Shorter but then again naturally weighing 150-200 kg while these strongmen have to use steroids etc. to get there. I think, that what comes to strength there aren´t big differences between strongest strongmen and gorillas in it, that how much they could lift etc. But while these strongmen are in that condition relatively clumsy, gorillas are fast and agile with stronger bone structure etc. I assume, that gorillas are a bit stronger too, even though differences are smaller than many think. But overall simply physically superior, I wouldn´t put any man with bear hands in the same cage with an angry gorilla, no matter if some "Hafthor" or "Bruce Lee", it would be too cruel for people :)
Yea gorillas run 20-25 mph and I don’t know how fast strongmen run probably not over 20mph . But it would be interesting to see a large male orangutan compared to a large gorilla and a strongman. Gorillas are built bulky to keep predators away and they’re mostly herbivores. They only have one predator and that’s the leopard which  range of 40-80kg but the largest males reach around 90-100kg , they mostly hunt young ones but even males can be killed.

I didn´t mean running speed at all. I mean how they move overall.

Like in this video, in which two gorillas are slapping each others a bit. Could you imagine strongmen move their 150-200 kg bodies making it look so effortless. I can´t.





Or if you compare to even bigger boys, like these bears. 





They look big and clumsy, but when they go for it, their movements are so quick. That kind of mixture of tremendous strength combined to such speed is impressive. Without a gun any strongman would be like a child in hands of an adult. If those two, Hafthor and... Hall (wasn´t it him?) have that boxing fight some day, it will be comical to compare to these animals, when looking at how slow they will be in their movements.
Oh well yea of course they will be faster in movement and reaction time they’re wild animals . Bears are surprisingly  nimble and fast . Didn’t one grizzly clock in at 40 mph ?  But yeah If you’re a human you don’t want to fight a gorilla. Even a 150 pound alpha chimp paid the price of messing with an angry silverback .
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Finland Shadow Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-09-2020, 12:49 AM by Shadow )

(09-09-2020, 12:17 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 11:53 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 10:44 PM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 11:37 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-08-2020, 08:10 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 11:34 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 04:08 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).

Gorillas are naturally very robust. Shorter but then again naturally weighing 150-200 kg while these strongmen have to use steroids etc. to get there. I think, that what comes to strength there aren´t big differences between strongest strongmen and gorillas in it, that how much they could lift etc. But while these strongmen are in that condition relatively clumsy, gorillas are fast and agile with stronger bone structure etc. I assume, that gorillas are a bit stronger too, even though differences are smaller than many think. But overall simply physically superior, I wouldn´t put any man with bear hands in the same cage with an angry gorilla, no matter if some "Hafthor" or "Bruce Lee", it would be too cruel for people :)
Yea gorillas run 20-25 mph and I don’t know how fast strongmen run probably not over 20mph . But it would be interesting to see a large male orangutan compared to a large gorilla and a strongman. Gorillas are built bulky to keep predators away and they’re mostly herbivores. They only have one predator and that’s the leopard which  range of 40-80kg but the largest males reach around 90-100kg , they mostly hunt young ones but even males can be killed.

I didn´t mean running speed at all. I mean how they move overall.

Like in this video, in which two gorillas are slapping each others a bit. Could you imagine strongmen move their 150-200 kg bodies making it look so effortless. I can´t.





Or if you compare to even bigger boys, like these bears. 





They look big and clumsy, but when they go for it, their movements are so quick. That kind of mixture of tremendous strength combined to such speed is impressive. Without a gun any strongman would be like a child in hands of an adult. If those two, Hafthor and... Hall (wasn´t it him?) have that boxing fight some day, it will be comical to compare to these animals, when looking at how slow they will be in their movements.
Oh well yea of course they will be faster in movement and reaction time they’re wild animals . Bears are surprisingly  nimble and fast . Didn’t one grizzly clock in at 40 mph ?  But yeah If you’re a human you don’t want to fight a gorilla. Even a 150 pound alpha chimp paid the price of messing with an angry silverback .

Well a chimp naturally is no match for a gorilla, no matter if alpha, beta or delta etc. Brown bears can run approximately 65 kph so yes, 40 mph is what they can do. They are able to outrun moose in the woods when they are hunting. At least if not trying to do it just before hibernation in heaviest possible condition. But I don´t write more about bears here, they have own threads if interest to discuss about them more.

What comes to gorillas and how strong they are, it´s an interesting question. Real and solid information is difficult to find, many kind of speculations there. I don´t think that they have more strength really than some other wild animal with same weight and muscle mass.
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