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Amur Tigers
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@GreenGrolar
Show this to the administrator of the Bear forum, who blindly claims and speculates ( based on nothing ) that tigers mostly hunt juvenile brown bears, and not adults, despite the fact that hard evidence from reputable experts has been posted which clearly proves him wrong. As for the mortality of young brown bears killed by tigers, biologists found only ONE young bear killed by a tiger, the rest of the brown bears killed were adults: (Siberian Tiger Project)  *This image is copyright of its original author Note, how STP biologists found mostly adult brown bears and black bears killed and eaten by tigers, and only very few young bears. This also confirms Tkachenko's observations in the Khekhtsir reserve, in which he reported and observed that male tigers more often hunted large, adult brown bears and black bears. Also, notice how the female brown bear was unable to defend her cub from the tiger, and fled up a tree with the other cub to escape. Wildlife biologist & senior scientist, Joel Berger mentions a case of a brown bear being tree'd by a tiger, and another adult brown bear killed by a tiger. He also mentions that bears are unable to defend their offspring against tigers:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://archive.org/details/bettertoeatyouwi0000berg This is telling because female brown bears defending their cubs are known to be the most dangerous and highly aggressive bears, and yet they often fail to defend their cubs against tiger predation, and often get killed in the process or forced to flee. In addition to Tkachenko's observations (and statement) of male tigers primarily hunting adult brown and black bears. His studies show that when tigers hunt Himalayan black bears, they regularly prey on adult bears of all ages and sexes, although I've seen more cases of tigers killing adult males, than female black bears. Specific Features of Feeding of the Amur Tiger Panthera tigris altaica (Carnivora, Felidae) in a Densely Populated Locality (with Reference to Bol’shekhekhtsirskii Reserve and Its Environs). K.N. Tkachenko, 2012 Tiger predation on bears: ( Adult Himalayan black bears routinely hunted and killed by tigers ) "Himalayan black bears (individuals of any age and sex) were more frequently attacked by tigers (Tkachenko, 2008). Two Himalayan bears—tiger’s prey—found in the reserve appeared to be adult (one of them male, the other, presumably, female). Claws of adult bears were also found repeatedly in the excreta of tigers. According to observations in Bol’shekhekhtsirskii Reserve, the tiger successfully hunted the Himalayan black bear at any time of the year." "The suggestion that the tigers attack bears only when there is an insufficient amount of its usual food—boar and Manchurian wapiti—(Rukovsky, 1968) is not quite correct since attacks take place also at their high numbers. Male tiger A specialized on hunting Himalayan black bear. The remains of two bears of this species found by us are its prey. In excreta (n = 56) of this individual collected from 1992 to 2000, bear remains comprised 31.6%, in particular, that of the Himalayan black bear, 22.8%; that of BROWN BEAR, 7%; and that of bear not determined up to species, 1.7%." "From November to March, the occurrence of the Himalayan black bear in the feeding of tiger was 22.7% and from April to October, slightly lower, 16.7%. Brown bear, on the contrary, in the cold time of the year was recorded much more rarely (2.7%) than in the warm time ( 16.7% )." "In Lazovsky Reserve in the feeding of the tiger, only Himalayan black bear was recorded (Zhivotchenko, 1981; Khramtsov, 1993). According to other studies performed in middle Sikhote-Alin, it attacks this species more seldom than the brown bear (Bromlei, 1965; Kostoglod, 1977; Seryodkin et al., 2005). Apparently, such a contradiction is explained by the difference of individual ecological conditions in areas where studies were performed. However, the fact that the Himalayan black bear of any sex and age is a typical prey of the tiger is obvious (Sysoev, 1960, 1966; Gorokhov, 1973; Kostoglod, 1977, 1981; Khramtsov,1993; Seryodkin et al., 2005; Yudin and Yudina, 2009; author’s unpublished data)." https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Sp...be361da82a So depending on region and areas, sometimes tigers prey on brown bears more often than Himalayan black bears and vice versa. And adult bears of both species are mostly hunted by tigers, particularly in summer and autumn.
More information on Franz Hafner's new documentary on Amur tigers.
"AMUR TIGER. MASTER OF THE TAIGA": THE PREMIERE OF A UNIQUE FILM WILL TAKE PLACE ON CHANNEL ONE The owner of the Ussuri taiga. Photo courtesy of the film crew.  *This image is copyright of its original author For thousands of years, mighty tigers have been the masters of the Ussuri taiga. One of the largest wild cats in the world rightfully occupied a dominant position in the animal kingdom of the Far East. However, over time, formidable predators have serious rivals - people. About two hundred years ago, they began to actively hunt Amur tigers and almost completely destroyed the entire livestock in the wild. The man came to his senses almost at the last moment. Striped beauties were taken under reliable protection and saved from extinction. The fascinating film "The Amur Tiger. Master of the Taiga" tells about the return of the population of these rare predators to a full life, their present, future, as well as coexistence with people. The premiere of the documentary, filmed by Austrian filmmakers with the grant support of the Russian Geographical Society, will take place on Saturday, - The filming took place in different places of the Khabarovsk Territory and Primorye - on the Bikin River, in the Sikhote-Alin Mountains, in the Anyui National Park. I name just a few places. This is a story about the successful return of the Amur tiger to the wild, thanks to conservation measures taken by the Russian nature protection agencies and the energetic actions of many people who work in the reserves. We are talking about a completely new situation in the Ussuri taiga. About how it is possible to organize the coexistence of people and big wild cats and how the future of the Amur tiger may look like , - the director of the documentary Franz Hafner shared with the readers of the RGS website. Directed by Franz Hafner. Photo courtesy of the film crew.  *This image is copyright of its original author "Amur Tiger. Master of the Taiga" is not the first experience of working in Russia for the Austrian director, journalist and photographer specializing in wildlife projects. In 2012, his team began filming a three-episode film about the Amur, one of the longest and mightiest Russian rivers. The film was released in 2015. Three years later, viewers saw the two-part picture "Wild Sea of Russia" - a declaration of love for nature and people on the coast of the Sea of \u200b\u200bOkhotsk. — The film about the Amur tiger was our third project in Russia. Why is the movie about him? Many years ago, when I was still working at the Institute for the Biology of Wildlife Species in Vienna, my specialization was birds of the grouse tribe. One of our research projects took us to the Russian Far East, to the Amur. There we studied a rare and little-known species - wild grouse. We spent three years next to this charming bird. And more than once we noticed that a male tiger roams around us. The size of his paw prints were very impressive. Since then, I began to be interested in this beast. But to be interested in tigers and plan to make a film about them -it's a big difference that we quickly realized. A thorough knowledge of this species, the help of local scientists and friends, as well as a well-established film crew are needed, Hafner said. The main character is in the frame. Photo courtesy of the film crew.  *This image is copyright of its original author The documentary film "The Amur Tiger. Master of the Taiga" was produced with the support of the Russian Geographical Society, the government of the Khabarovsk Territory, the Amur Tiger Center, as well as jointly with the Directorate of Documentary Films of Channel One JSC, the Austrian television and radio company ORF and National Geographic. The project was approved by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation. The main shooting took place on the territory of the Khabarovsk Territory and Primorye, in the National Park "Land of the Leopard", in the Anyui National Park, the Bikin National Park, the Sikhote-Alin Reserve. Film directed by Franz Hafner. Cameramen - Oliver Indra, Oleg Kabalik, Dietrich Heller. Producer: Alexander Bundtzen. The film crew included inspectors, researchers and other employees of Russian nature reserves. Udege guide Klim. Photo courtesy of the film crew.  *This image is copyright of its original author According to Hafner, it is very difficult to see a tiger in the taiga, because he always feels the presence of a person. Shooting with a handheld camera is almost impossible - the animals "pose" for no longer than ten seconds, so 60 camera traps came to the aid of the filmmakers. At the same time, you still need to know where predators go, it is necessary to take into account the peculiarities of their behavior. The group did the first reconnaissance for almost six months. During this time, the authors of the picture evaluated many places and only then decided where they would work. The tigers were also photographed manually at close range, but mostly they worked with camera traps. — "The Amur tiger. Master of the taiga" is a success story. I hope that our efforts will pay off and the film will find its audience around the world , - admitted Hafner.  *This image is copyright of its original author The Russian Geographical Society has been supporting the Amur Tiger project since 2010 . Its goal is to study the state of the population of a rare predator, develop scientific foundations for the conservation of this animal, and draw public attention to the problem of its protection in Russia. https://www.rgo.ru/ru/article/amurskiy-t...0%BB%D0%B0  (03-28-2022, 06:40 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: @GreenGrolar Done. Anyway, here is another interesting account:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...dents.html Although it seems to be a rare incident, the two animals could have potentially crossed paths with each other or at least thread on the same land since both animals wandered far away from their natural habitat at a different time period. Interested in the comments of others.
Wandering what others think of this? Regarding the title ‘Master of the Taiga’, there are accounts which give the Amur tiger and the Ussuri brown bear that very title. It seems that both animals are valued in different parts of Far East Russia if not mistaken.
I believe that having that title doesn’t necessarily mean that animal is the strongest. It is like calling a lion the king of the beast yet there are animals stronger than it. 
I think its foolish to believe that there is a top of the food chain where one animal rules supreme over the others. Such an species would soon outgrow its food source and collapse.
Terms like King of the jungle are just human flair and has no scientific basis.  (04-02-2022, 07:54 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: here is another interesting account: Out of topic, but in the line with tigers. It is stated that the maximum distance known to be travelled by a tiger is 1,000 km (Nowell & Jackson, 1993). With this in mind and with this type of records of huge travels from Russia and India, is used to prove that there is no natural barriers in Asia (appart from deserts or high mountains) that can stop a tiger for moving from one part to another one, not even the large rivers. Knowing this, there is no reason why a young male Amur tiger could not travel to South China and mate with the females there, or a Bengal tiger traveling to the Myanmar and make its home there. Based in this, and the fact that the differences between "subspecies" are based in very few specimens, that is why modern scientists believe that there are not "subspecies" per se, but just populations with clinal variations or particular adaptations. The genetic evidence will only suggest modern separations caused by humans, and will support the idea that the modern "subspecies" are just artificial populations created by the intervention of humans. I think that the subspecies issue is a very interesting theme, with real discussions in the academic groups between the "spliters" and the "lumpers". I will like to go deeper in these topic too, and this shows how interesting is to study tigers without the need to constantly put it in irracional conflicts with other animals (like lions, for example).  (04-06-2022, 12:29 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(04-02-2022, 07:54 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: here is another interesting account: I wonder if the movement of Pleistocene tigers was similar, more, or less. Without human barriers and better prey base, do tigers move more or less. It also makes the fossil record of P. spelaea and P. tigris in that northern zone more interesting. Here is a vegetation map from the LGM. There is forest all throughout south Asia. The only barriers happen in China and further north as it is steppe tundra. Any tigers who snuck through corridors probably then got isolated. When we look at morphology of skull, there is a lot of overlap between the southern populations. Just in the occiput itself, southern forms often have a narrow occiput and the fossil record from even China shows similar. It is only Amur and Caspian tigers that seem to lack this so they must have had some significant separation event.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Tagging @GrizzlyClaws here as we have discussed this topic together in depth for quite a while now and he is well-versed on the fossil record.
If we look at the most recent study on tiger subspecies divergences, we see it is all generally after the start of the Holocene, mixed in with drastic sea level and vegetation/biome shifts.
 *This image is copyright of its original author For the Sumatran tiger, the split happens just after the islands are isolated. Take a look at this sea level graph.  *This image is copyright of its original author When sea levels reached 20 m less than today, the islands were separated as the maps by Voris (2000). This sea level occurs around the split of the Sumatran tiger (~9 kya). So at least until that point, all populations mixed. Malaysian tigers probably began to separate as the peninsula narrowed, leaving less land mass for tigers to pass through, akin to the Sunda tiger separation. Based on studies that show the northeast China did not have forests until at least 14 kya, Amur tigers likely did not even exist prior to that point, also bridging the genetic gap. (04-06-2022, 08:38 AM)tigerluver Wrote: If we look at the most recent study on tiger subspecies divergences, we see it is all generally after the start of the Holocene, mixed in with drastic sea level and vegetation/biome shifts. Wow! Great post and excelent information, you give me a lot to read. This is what Wildfact is, quality of information about the animal kingdom. That is why this place is different, that is why we are the best!  
And as a followup, a quick discussion of the vegetation shifts of the Russian Fear Primor'ye region. These are vegetation studies (1 and 2). Please also refer to the sea level diagram in my last post. Lower sea levels are associated with colder and dryer conditions which cause open landscapes, and warmer and more humid times make forests.
The study region:  *This image is copyright of its original author Next, the vegetations shifts. We see that prior the Holocene, the region was more open and a scrubland which would limit the presence of the forest-dwelling tigers. As we enter the Holocene (warming), forests take over. This will allow the entry of the tiger. Here is their table:  *This image is copyright of its original author Now to get to the Primor-ye, the tiger would have to pass through the northeast China corridor. It cannot use any pathway further west as those landscapes are open as in this map:  *This image is copyright of its original author So we look at the vegetation shifts in northeast China. Per this study, we learn the following: 1. Steppe extended as far as the Songnen plain at the last glacial maximum (LGM) and only the far coastal regions had some forest. The green area is the Songnen plain:  *This image is copyright of its original author So at this point, the presence of the tiger in this region and further north is unlikely or at least less so. Then as in the study mentioned in my last post, forests finally appeared in the region around 14 kya. However, the denseness of the forest probably took longer to increase as climate had to warm more first. This again would limit the presence of the tiger. So what we can put together is that the tiger did not have much of a chance to enter what classify as the Amur tiger's range until the end of the Pleistocene. After that, there does not seem to be a clear moment of separation of the population. However, Chlachula et al. (2016) do note that there was "a broadening of open landscapes and mosaic parklands in the main river valleys during the mid Holocene is linked with the expansion of the Far Eastern Neolithic cultures based on a herding pastoralist economy and who practiced forest clearance for pastures as is well-documented in the nearby Iman Valley between ca. 5,000-4,000 cal yrs BP." The location of the Iman Valley sites:  *This image is copyright of its original author The increase in open landscapes due to human presence probably began fragmenting the forests at this point, giving us a geographic barrier between the Amur population and the rest as tigers stick to forest boundaries. The collection of these findings coincides very well with the divergence range of the Amur tiger (3.25 kya-8.12 kya). 
TIGERLUVER
Three very interesting posts about climate, vegetation and living conditions in northeastern China and Primorye in the Holocene. Many thanks on behalf of all interested in wild Amur tigers. The information you posted suggests tigers entered this region less than 10,000 years ago. Some think they entered from the west, whereas others think they entered from the south and spread to the Altai Mountains and the Caspian region later. What are your thoughts? All authors of the books I read wrote about the outspoken differences between the seasons in this region. V.K. Arseniev ('Dersu the trapper', 1941, 1996) more than once saw valleys in which almost all trees had been flattened by violent storms. The climate seems to be far from stable. Are the frequent and sudden weather changes a result of the climate or are they a result of climate change? And what about the forests? Are they on their way out or is the opposite true? As a result of the conservation policy of the Russians and the Chinese, the conditions in the Russian Far East and northeastern China are improving. The number of herbivores is growing and tigers are responding. In a few decades from today, this region could accomodate as much as 1,000 adult tigers. In spite of the large number of herbivores, tigers hunt both Himalayan black bears and Ussuri brown bears (almost) up to their own size, especially in summer and autumn. This although bears can be dangerous for adult tigers. Any ideas as to the possible reason(s)? Last question. Reliable information collected between 1850-1950 and recent information suggests wild Indian tigers, and those living in the northern and northeastern part in particular, seem to be heavier than wild Amur tigers. Recent information from the northern part of Primorye and northeastern China, however, suggest wild male Amur tigers exceed 250 kg (552 pounds) more often than was assumed. Did Amur tigers respond to better conditions, or did biologists underestimate the average size of Amur tigers in the recent past (referring to the overview of hunting records of Slaght et al. and the table published in 2005)? At the level of averages, captive Amur tigers (referring to the tables recently posted in the tiger extinction thread) seem to be the largest subspecies by a margin. Skulls of both captive and wild Amur tigers (Mazak, 1967, 1983) also are larger (longer) than those of other subspecies. It would be appreciated if you could post a copy of this post and your reply in the tiger extinction thread. (04-05-2022, 05:04 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: Wandering what others think of this? Regarding the title ‘Master of the Taiga’, there are accounts which give the Amur tiger and the Ussuri brown bear that very title. It seems that both animals are valued in different parts of Far East Russia if not mistaken. @GreenGrolar Whether people want to take the term 'Master of the taiga' or 'Lord of the taiga' seriously is up to them, but let me clear this up because some people are confused by this. The brown bear is only called 'Master of the Taiga' or 'Owner of the taiga' etc... only in regions of the Russian taiga which are devoid of tigers. Like in western/central Siberia and Kamchatka, as well as the European taiga forests. The taiga or boreal forest has been called the world's largest land biome. In North America, it covers most of inland Canada, Alaska, and parts of the northern contiguous United States. In Eurasia, it covers most of Sweden, Finland, much of Russia from Karelia in the west to the Pacific Ocean (including much of Siberia), much of Norway and Estonia, some of the Scottish Highlands, some lowland/coastal areas of Iceland, and areas of northern Kazakhstan, northern Mongolia, and northern Japan (on the island of Hokkaidō). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiga Remember, various subspecies of brown bears (Ussuri, Eurasian, Siberian, Kamchatka) inhabit most of the taiga regions, whereas the Amur tigers range is limited to the Far East Russian taiga in the Amur-Ussuri regions and Manchurian taiga in Northeast China. Note, in these regions, the brown bear is NOT referred to as the 'King of the taiga' or 'Owner of the taiga' etc... this title is given to the Amur tiger, not only by all the Chinese and Russian natives, but also by the white European Russians, even by all the biologists, zoologists, researchers and so forth. When bear posters see a source referring to a Russian brown bear as 'Master' or 'Owner' of the taiga, they immediately think that its referring to Ussuri brown bears in the Ussuri taiga. But this is false, there are several subspecies of brown bears in Russia from Ussuri/Amur brown bear, Far Eastern Siberian brown bears and Kamchatka bears. Only the former (Amur brown bear) co-exists with tigers, whereas the two latter species inhabit regions of Siberia and the Far East where tigers are completely non-existent. Hence why in the regions where brown bears do not co-exist with tigers, the brown bear is called 'Master of the taiga' because its the dominant carnivore in the ecosystem. But in the same forest as the tiger, the brown bear now becomes prey and is displaced from the top position in the food-chain. In the Amur-Ussuri & Manchurian taiga forests, the Siberian tiger is the undisputed top predator at the pinnacle of the food-chain and top of the ecological food pyramid. So in these regions, the brown bear is no longer called 'lord' or 'King of the taiga', this title is now given to the Amur tiger, the Ussuri & Manchurian taiga's dominant predator. Franz Hafner, in his new documentary also mentions this. He states that in other regions of Russia, where tigers do not exist, bears are apex predators, but in the Ussuri region they are not, because the bears are hunted and killed by tigers. As a bear enthusiast yourself, have you ever wondered why literally ALL the Russian biologists, zoologists, researchers, naturalists, local hunters etc ....call the Amur tiger the 'King, owner, master, ruler & lord of the Ussuri taiga?? Why do biologists and various experts not give this title to the Ussuri brown bear?? Even Dale Miquelle and Seryodkin called the tiger, the "King of the taiga". Why? I'm interested in your take. Here's some sources that substantiate my statements: (Remember, these sources are referring to the Ussuri taiga, where tigers and bears co-exist) I have plenty more sources, but I won't post them all here, otherwise the post will be too long. I just posted some good informative ones. I could literally post over 100 sources & articles stating the Amur tiger to be the 'King, owner or lord of the Ussuri taiga. "The primordial locals perceived him as the owner of the taiga, respected and worshiped him, therefore, historically, the Amur tiger was not an object of aboriginal hunting."  *This image is copyright of its original author http://programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/tiger/history "The indigenous populations had respected the tigers, seeing them as the masters of the taiga, and therefore historically avoided hunting them." http://programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/history Ethnic components of beliefs and rituals of the native peoples of the Amur-Sakhalin region Although the bear, like the tiger, is considered to be a "master of the taiga", the tiger is more important to the native people. To the indigenous peoples, the tiger is the king of beasts:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/E...frontcover A bizarre combination not found anywhere else in the world. The owners of the Ussuri taiga are considered to be the Amur tigers - the largest representatives of the cat family. They are at the top of the pyramid of the animal world of the Ussuri taiga, and even bears can become their prey.  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.1tv.ru/doc/stati/amurskiy-ti...film-anons https://www.vl.ru/tv/cast/3346/8149787/event/2105192796 "In the taiga brown bears can meet their southern counterpart, the Himalayan bear. Here you can find Amur gorals, sika deers, martens, Manchurian hares and other endemic, rare and endangered animal species." "The master of the cedar-broadleaf forests is the Amur tiger, one of the largest predators on the planet."  *This image is copyright of its original author http://en.taigastory.ru/pasport_text/kto...t-v-tajge/ "The brown bear is considered the national symbol of Russia. But there are places where the Russian clubfoot surrenders its reign to a stronger rival." "In the Ussuri taiga, the rightful owner of the forest is the tiger, which is called the Ussuri tiger." https://samovar.travel/article/ussuriyskie-tigry/ "The Udeghe term the tiger the "Lord of the Forest" and if you have experienced the Russian taiga and its greatest inhabitant, the Amur tiger, it is easy to see why. This is not so much a religious term, as an accurate description."  *This image is copyright of its original author https://pollyclark.co.uk/2020/11/06/tige...isode-two/ By historian, field scientist & anthropologist, Alexander B. Dolitsky - Alaska-Siberia Research Center Native inhabitants of the region came to recognize the tigers dominant presence among wildlife. The tiger is admired for its strength and agility, and feared for its ferociousness:  *This image is copyright of its original author Even fierce animals like adult brown bears rank among the prey of the Siberian tiger; Where there are more tigers, wolves cease to exist:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.arlis.org/docs/vol1/P/262479152.pdf Tigers and Bears in native Udege culture "While the bear is singled out for particular veneration across Northern Eurasia, in Udege belief this special position is occupied by the tiger." The tiger is regarded as being the most supreme amongst the forest animals, and also a highly intelligent and clever creature:  *This image is copyright of its original author "The tiger occupies a special position in the Udege spirit world whilst the position of the bear is somewhat lower. This is a characteristic of the Udege culture that is radically different from other ethnic minorities in Siberia and the Far East, who do not have tigers."  *This image is copyright of its original author The tiger is regarded as the supreme animal of the forest, its presence was feared and hunting it was avoided:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/L...frontcover There is no creature in the taiga that is off limits to the tiger, it alone can mete out death at will. Amur tigers have been known to eat everything from salmon and ducks to adult brown bears:  *This image is copyright of its original author Every major ecosystem has produced a singularly formidable predator to rule over it. In the Ussuri taiga, the Amur tiger is the supreme ruler and most lethal manifestation of this creative impulse. Indigenous Russian peoples have always understood and acknowledged the tigers supremacy. The tiger, as indigenous peoples know it, is the undisputed lord of the taiga:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WGvV...rs&f=false The tiger was the indisputable king of the taiga - until the advent of man. Native Russian and Siberian ethnic groups respected and admired the tiger as the ruler of all beasts:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4liV...ga&f=false WWF RUSSIA "The Amur tiger, the owner of the Ussuri taiga." *This image is copyright of its original author https://ok.ru/wwf/topic/70122110315463 Throughout their entire range in the wild, tigers dominate all other species they co-exist with. In the Far East of Russia, tigers dominate the brown bears and wolves that share their range:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ykiG...ts&f=false Here's another good recent example. (March 2021) In 'Land of the Leopard' reserve where tigers, brown bears, Himalayan black bears and leopards all co-exist, the tiger is at the top of the food-chain, the undisputed top predator with nothing to fear in the forest: "The position in the food chain allows these predators to behave this way." “In Land of the Leopard, they have no one to fear - the Amur tiger is at the top of the food chain, being a super predator. However, some things make this apex predator related to a domestic cat. For example, the desire sometimes to lie in plenty in the sun's rays, ”the employees of the national park described the picture."  *This image is copyright of its original author https://moya-planeta.ru/news/view/v_prim...na_solntse https://www.rgo.ru/ru/article/tihiy-chas...-v-primore Brown bears never sleep out in the open like this in tiger country, its too dangerous for the bear, as they highly risk being attacked and killed by a tiger. This is the difference, the Amur tiger has the boldness, confidence and mentality of an apex predator that rules the forest and fears nothing, whereas the brown bear does not, at least in regions where they co-exist with tigers. From WWF RUSSIA "The symbol of the Far Eastern region, the top of the ecological pyramids and simply the owner of the Ussuri taiga." https://wwf.ru/upload/iblock/e58/tiger_tigryata.pdf Although the Ussuri brown bear is also worshiped as a deity, and seen as a 'Master of the taiga' in its own right, the natives view it as a inferior and weaker animal than the tiger, and widely regard the tiger as the undisputed lord and owner of the Amur-Ussuri taiga forest that reigns supreme over all other creatures of the taiga. The natives know that a big male brown bear can weigh over 500 kg. In spite of this, the Udege, Nanai, Orochi hunters never feared brown bears, in fact, they actively hunted, killed and even ate brown bears. These events were known as 'Bear Festivals'. Whereas the natives highly feared and revered tigers, and avoided tigers at all costs. When indigenous hunters would encounter tiger tracks in the forest, they would bow, lay down their weapons and quietly retreat. "The indigenous population of the Russian Far East revered the tiger as a sacred animal - the owner of the taiga - and never hunted it. If people happened to encounter a tiger in the taiga, they prayed that the owner would not touch them." http://tigerstrail.ru/about/ I'm gonna post some follow-up information on this next. Code: As a bear enthusiast yourself, have you ever wondered why literally ALL the Russian biologists, zoologists, researchers, naturalists, local hunters etc ....call the Amur tiger the 'King, owner, master, ruler & lord of the Ussuri taiga?? Why do biologists and various experts not give this title to the Ussuri brown bear?? Even Dale Miquelle and Seryodkin called the tiger, the "King of the taiga". Why? I'm interested in your take.Firstly thanks for posting these articles. I have been thinking about this for a while: my belief, the tiger is the strongest full time predator in its area. Just as the cave lion is the strongest full time predator in its area. The Ussuri brown bear is not a full time hunter and biologist in my opinion generally call a full time predator as an apex predator. Lions and the atlas bears also used to coexist in the past yet the former is known as king of the beast even though the latter is larger and stronger. The golden eagle is also called an apex predator among the avian family yet it gets robbed by a larger Eurasian black vulture. Full time carnivores are also considered the predator even if its prey item is 1.1% to 2.2% in its diet. I am also interested in your take. John Valliant does mention that tigers prey on bears and did mention that an Amur tiger's sense of superiority and dominance over his realm is absolute, however, the only force a male tiger will submit too will be a stronger tiger and large brown bear (referring to a male):  *This image is copyright of its original author I will be waiting for your follow up info :).
@GreenGrolar
Before I post my response to your previous post and the follow-up information on tigers, bears and native views, let me just address this wild speculation made by a certain bear poster (you know). Why does the administrator of the Bear forum keep making empty claims, based on zero evidence, that "vast majority" of bear flesh consumed by tigers is due to tigers "scavenging" on already dead bears?? Where did he hear this from? What study? Research? Thats nothing but pure guesswork based on nothing. If vast majority of bear flesh consumed by tigers was due to scavenging, then that means brown bears and black bears are randomly dropping dead at a alarming rate in the summer and autumn in numerous reserves! Which makes no sense, whatsoever. One of the ways and methods biologists, researchers and zoologists find out what a predator is regularly HUNTING is by examining scats. This is common knowledge. Although all predators will scavenge on dead animals, the vast majority of meat consumed by any pure predator is due to predation. This is a fact. If majority of the bear flesh eaten by tigers was due to feeding on carrion, then biologists would definitely mention this in their scientific reports, studies and articles. But they don't, biologists specifically mention that the bear remains found in tiger scats is due to tigers hunting and killing bears. Here's information from biologists and experts that clearly refutes his empty claims.... Tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality: Monitoring, Survey, Utilization And Threats To The Populations Of Asiatic Black Bear And Brown Bear In Sikhote-Alin Pikunov D.G., Seryodkin I.V. The annual increase in the population of brown bears is approximately 38%, and natural mortality is 25-30% (Yudin, 1993). The main natural cause of their death is the predation by the tiger." Access full text (study) here: https://global.wcs.org/Resources/Publica...00000.aspx Sergey Kolchin, a leading zoologist, biologist & researcher, reports that bears are usual prey of adult male tigers: "But this is if the tiger's teeth are in order. And, of course, the paws, with the help of which the tiger makes throws, grabs and holds the caught prey. Red deer and wild boars, not to mention bears (the usual prey of adult male tigers), are able to stand up for themselves with dignity." http://debri-dv.com/article/5993 From the Siberian Tiger Project:  *This image is copyright of its original author Look administrator of bear forum, the reason why bear remains are regularly found in tiger scats in autumn, is because in autumn, its easy for tigers to find bears and KILL them:  *This image is copyright of its original author Young male tiger 'Vladik' preferred to hunt bears in the fall:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://news.rambler.ru/incidents/388078...rodu-tigr/ https://ria.ru/20171231/1512028610.html Young Amur tigress "Elena" chased (likely hunting) huge bears which scattered in panic from her:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://mirnov.ru/rubriki-novostey/yeto-...ossii.html "Traditional methods based on snow tracking may overestimate large-ungulate kill rates by tigers, hindering tiger conservation efforts in the Russian Far East. A prediction of this hypothesis would be an increase in summer PREDATION ON BEARS and other smaller mammals that are hibernating and less accessible during the winter months." "Recent scat analysis research in the Russian Far East has shown non-ungulate prey species are present in tiger scat significantly more often during the summer months." https://www.speciesconservation.org/case...-tiger/412 This is confirmed by this study ( Dale Miquelle, Linda Kerley, Matiukhina, 2015 ). It shows that bears make up a large significant portion of the tigers diet in summer, due to tigers preying on bears. A comparison of food habits and prey preference of Amur tiger at three sites in the Russian Far East "Across all sites, tiger diet varied seasonally, with tigers consuming more bear, and less wild boar biomass during the snow-free months."  *This image is copyright of its original author "In addition, bears constituted a significantly higher proportion of tiger diet in the summer, and while not significant, badgers increased in the diet of tigers during the snow-free period as well..." "The increased predation on bears and badgers is likely due to their increased availability following emergence from hibernation and the increased vulnerability of their young, although tigers do prey on adult bears. Amur tiger predation on bear is not a new phenomenon, but our results, in addition to identifying seasonality in tiger predation of bears, also suggests that bears constitute a relatively large portion of tiger diet, particularly during the snow-free period. This runs counter to previous assertions that the risk of injury was too high for tigers to regularly predate bears." (Miquelle et al. 2010).  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dal...r-East.pdf Sometimes biologists find the actual carcass of a bear that was killed and eaten by a tiger. An example: From Sergey Kolchin - zoologist & researcher "The main natural enemy of the Himalayan bear in the Ussuri forests is the tiger. The habitats of these species in the south of the Far East coincide, forcing the bear to adapt to the dangerous neighborhood." "An important adaptation that increases its viability in such conditions is wintering in tree hollows. However, if the entrance to the hollow is too low, near the roots of the tree, the tiger can kill the careless owner of the den." "Once positively experienced, tigers begin to systematically check low-entry tree dens in search of prey." Remains of a fully-grown, mature male black bear that was pulled out of his den, killed and eaten by a tiger:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.facebook.com/sergey.bears?fref=nf Biologists specifically mention "predation" and "prey item". NOT SCAVENGING. In fact, they never mention that tigers are scavenging on dead bears. So please ask the administrator of the bear forum, why does he constantly make stuff up?? Why does he never post any shred of evidence to back up his wild speculations, assumptions and empty claims? Its a well known established fact, that Amur tigers actively prey on bears, studies prove it and biologists specifically mention that the significant amount and frequency of bear remains regularly found in tiger scats in summer and autumn is due to tiger predation on bears, and yet the administrator still keeps saying that its because of tigers "feeding on carrion", although this is completely wrong, why?
@GreenGrolar
Quote:Firstly thanks for posting these articles. I have been thinking about this for a while: my belief, the tiger is the strongest full time predator in its area. Just as the cave lion is the strongest full time predator in its area. The Ussuri brown bear is not a full time hunter and biologist in my opinion generally call a full time predator as an apex predator. Lions and the atlas bears also used to coexist in the past yet the former is known as king of the beast even though the latter is larger and stronger. The golden eagle is also called an apex predator among the avian family yet it gets robbed by a larger Eurasian black vulture. Here's the big difference though, tigers, especially in summer and autumn, actively prey on brown bears, and as scientific literature reports (and has documented), adult bears are taken frequently by male tigers. Do golden eagles prey on Eurasian black vultures like tigers hunt and kill brown bears?? We also don't know the relationship between the Barbary lion and Atlas bear, for all we know the lions could have dominated the Atlas bears. But we'll never know, so no point of using that example. My question was why is the tiger, and not the brown bear, called "Lord, king, owner of the Ussuri taiga and Manchurian taiga by all the natives and experts, biologists? I'm not talking about tigers being called apex predators, its common knowledge that tigers are the apex predators throughout their entire range in the wild since the Pleistocene. But why is the tiger widely regarded as the 'Lord' and supreme ruler of the taiga, even though they co-exist with one of the largest subspecies of brown bears on earth?? The tiger is called 'Lord' or 'King of the taiga' because its an apex predator that hunts and kills bears. To some extent, tigers even regulate bear numbers in Primorye and Northeast China. And they take on and kill bears (brown & Himalayan black bears) around their own size and even heavier. Sergey Aramilev said that the tiger REGULATES the population of bears, wolves and other predators that fall victim to tiger predation: "It is also important that the tiger regulates the number of other predators - wolves, bears and others who fall under its paw." - commented Sergey Aramilev , general director of the Amur Tiger Center. http://amur-tiger.ru/ru/press_center/news/1460/ Name me another extant apex predator that deliberately (and regularly) hunts and kills another large and dangerous terrestrial carnivore of similar-size, like tigers hunt bears? Besides the tiger, name me another extant predator that also habitually hunts and kills another large, powerful similar-sized terrestrial carnivore? The Amur tiger, overall, dominates the Ussuri brown bear as a species because its the main natural enemy and predator of brown bears. In fact, Seryodkin and Pikunov reported that tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality. In Northeast China, tigers have significantly depressed the populations of both brown bears and black bears in the Taipinggou Nature Reserve. This is the Amur tigers dominance as the apex predator of the taiga.  *This image is copyright of its original author https://news-chinaxiaokang-com.translate...r_hl=en-GB As the Amur-Ussuri regions/Northeast China's apex predator at the top of the food-chain, the Amur tiger dominates the ecosystem. Hence why it is viewed as the undisputed lord and owner of the taiga. Quote:John Valliant does mention that tigers prey on bears and did mention that an Amur tiger's sense of superiority and dominance over his realm is absolute, however, the only force a male tiger will submit too will be a stronger tiger and large brown bear (referring to a male): Some bear posters twist John Vaillant's statement. Vaillant very clearly states: "OCCASIONALLY, a large brown bear." Which means INFREQUENTLY. The only force a male tiger will typically submit to is a stronger tiger, thats all. His statement is clear-cut, and yet some bear fanboyz (I'm not saying you) deliberately twist Vaillants statement and try make it out that the male tiger "regularly" or in "general" will submit to a large male brown bear. This is clearly wrong. Its the same thing when some bear posters deliberately twisted Batalov's words about tigers avoiding conflict with large male brown bears only in the MATING season. I also posted evidence (Matyushkin) that tigers usually dominate adult brown bears at kill-sites. Vaillant also stated that even though Ussuri brown bears can reach 1000 lb in weight, they have been known to flee at the sight of a tiger. He also mentions that tigers will even pick fights with brown bears, and tear the bears apart, limb from limb and scatter their appendages across the battle ground. Now note, right after that, Vaillant mentions that such scenes and descriptions could explain why indigenous peoples refer to the tiger - not the larger brown bear - as the 'Czar of the forest'.  *This image is copyright of its original author He also mentions that most predators will abandon a contested kill, rather than risk injury, but tigers are different. The male Amur tiger is a vicious, shrewd and vindictive beast, and based on the observations of hunters and biologists, tigers will even kill bears solely on principle:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here's a video of John Vaillant talking about the tigers dominance over the Ussuri brown bear. He's asked about tigers vs big Russian bears/Grizzly bears, and he states the following: "The tiger has a inborn sense of total dominance over its domain. Russian brown bears are the equivalent of our Grizzly, the tiger attacks, kills and eats them on a regular basis. I've seen video of a tiger charging a helicopter. So they have this inborn sense that there's nothing out there, thats bigger and badder then me and they act on that".. Go to the 11:29 mark: Here's the follow up information: Tiger rituals and beliefs in shamanic Tungus-Manchu cultures The Oroch, Udeghe, and Nanai consider tigers to be masters of the taiga with power over all other animals: they can command an animal to dress in its expensive “coat” and rush into the trap of a hunter. The Negidals, Ulchi, and Nivkh also believe that tigers, the masters of the taiga, order animals to reveal their most vulnerable spots to hunters for a well-aimed shot (Skorinov 2005, p. 97). If a hunter loses his way in the taiga, he can call upon the master of tigers, who will come to him in the form of a tiger and show him the way out (Bereznitskii 2005, p. 194). As the master of the taiga, the tiger is believed to be the highest judge: it teaches people the laws and partly instructs them about the order of the bear feast and blood sacrifice. Natives consider tigers to be much mightier than bears: Explaining the unusual qualities attributed to tigers, shamanists affirm that tigers (the real animals which live in the taiga) “are not just animals; instead they represent a special species of humans. This attitude is partly similar to the attitude towards bears, as bears are not considered to be animals either, but humans” (Kaplan 1949, p. 61): nevertheless, tigers are considered much mightier than bears. https://journals.openedition.org/emscat/3486 https://www.researchgate.net/publication...u_cultures As I mentioned before in my previous post, in other regions of Siberia and the Far East where brown bears (Siberian & Kamchatka bears) do not co-exist with tigers, the bear is the most prominent animal and considered the 'Master of the taiga' or 'Lord of the taiga'. But this is because in these regions, Amur tigers are non-existent as their range is limited to the south of the Far East in the Amur-Ussuri regions, Khabarovsk territories and Manchurian taiga in Northeast China. In these regions and lands, the brown bear is no longer considered as the 'Lord of the taiga', this title is given to the tiger, who the natives view as a much superior, stronger and formidable animal than the brown bear. Two types of brown bears are found in Siberia: the Siberian brown bear and Kamchatka bear (Not Ussuri brown bears). In these regions, the bear is the most prominent and worshiped animal in the indigenous peoples cultures:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Why does the bear predominately feature among indigenous cultures of Siberia and the Far East, and the tiger features less prominently? ... Because the Amur tigers are found only in the Amur-Ussuri regions and in the Khabarovsk regions where it is commonly called: "King of the taiga". In these regions of the taiga, where the brown bear shares its range with the tiger, the bear is no longer viewed as the mightiest and most powerful animal. The tiger is, and is regarded by all the indigenous peoples, tribes and cultures as the undisputed lord and king of the taiga that reigns supreme over all animals of the forest:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/S...frontcover The well-known Russian zoologist, hunter and naturalist, Baikov, a man who respected the brown bears strength, stated: "In the Manchurian taiga, the tiger is master. He rules without any opposition - except that of man"...  *This image is copyright of its original author https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eB8Z...wQ6AEIKzAA Note, huge brown bears also live in the Manchurian taiga, but Baikov still says the tiger is the master and rules without any opposition. In the forest, the Brown bear meets the Ussuri tiger - that mightiest beast of prey on our planet:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=V54a...ey&f=false "The tiger does not sleep in winter, he is the king in the Ussuri taiga." https://vl.aif.ru/society/lyudoed_zhil_p...asnyy_zver There's also a tiger, the King of the Ussuri taiga:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pQ3y...ga&f=false Like all aboriginal hunters, Dersu feared the tiger's immense strength and ferocity but also revered it as the very breath and spirit of the taiga. These Tungus peoples considered it a near-deity and sometimes addressed it as "Grandfather" or "Old Man." The indigenous Udege and Nanai tribes referred to it as "Amba" or "tiger" (it was only the white strangers—the Russians—who translated that word as "devil"). To the Manchurians, the tiger was Hu Lin, the king. https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes....igers.html https://archive.org/details/tigersinsnow...f+the+snow The white European Russians of the Far East also regard the tiger as 'King of the taiga': A bronze monument to the Amur tiger, reading "To the King of the Taiga", the Amur tiger, and the caring people who guard him,” was unveiled in Vladivostok.  *This image is copyright of its original author http://programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/news/24914 https://www.rgo.ru/en/article/master-tai...e-who-care "Our tiger is not just a big wild cat, but a special, almost mystical animal," says Fomenko. - It is he who rules the ball in the Far Eastern taiga, here he is the real king of nature." https://aif.ru/society/nature/car_v_polo...aya_koshka Li Dongwei, a Chinese forest ranger & wildlife protector states: "I especially like Siberian tigers. They're the king in the mountains and forests. Protecting them is protecting ecology," he said.  *This image is copyright of its original author http://www.news.cn/english/2021-10/18/c_1310251310.htm You see, wherever the tiger inhabits, its widely regarded by all the people (natives, locals, hunters, biologists, rangers, researchers etc) as the 'Lord of the forest' that dominates all other animals. Despite the sheer size, strength and power of the brown bear, the tiger is viewed as the superior and more formidable beast. Also keep in mind, most Russian biologists and experts favour the male tiger in a fight against a very large male brown bear. Conclusions: Why is the tiger regarded as the Lord of the Amur-Ussuri & Manchurian taiga forests? 1) The Amur tiger is the apex predator of the taiga, at the top of the food chain and ecological pyramid. 2) Tigers regularly hunt and kill both brown bears and black bears, and adult bears are frequently taken. (Summer & autumn) 3) Tigers regulate the number of brown bears in Primorye (Russia) and Northeast China. (Taipinggou Reserve) 4) Tigers are by far the most feared beast by all animals throughout their entire range in the wild. 5) Tigers are considered by the natives & locals to be much mightier, stronger and powerful than brown bears. 6) Tigers win most head-on fights against brown bears. 7) Bears, in general, fear tigers. Now the question is, where did the administrator of the bear forum, hear that the Ussuri brown bear is the "dominant beast" and "Boss of the woods" in the Ussuri taiga forests ?? Based on what evidence? According to which expert, biologist or zoologist?? According to which native tribe in this region? Or is he making stuff up again, like he always does? |
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