There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 3 Vote(s) - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Man-eaters

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
#85

Short note: On the size of lions at the Field Museum.

Some time ago, using the graphic of skulls in the book of Dr Bruce Patterson "The Lions of Tsavo" of 2004, I tried to reconstruct the skull size of the Tsavo lions and the Mfuwe lions, argubly the biggest lions on record based in the figures reported. And the reported sizes are:

Tsavo lion (first): 295 cm in total length and 114 cm in shoulder height.
Tsavo lion (second): 290 cm in total length and 121 cm in shoulder height.
Mfuwe lion: 320 cm total length and 122 cm in shoulder height.

Yes, these are huge specimens by any standard, but what it says its skulls:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Based in this graphic, the reported size are IMPOSIBLE, and certainly an exageration. However, I was using only the graphic and just trying to do my best guess on the figures.

However, I was checking a new document named "Dietary behaviour of man-eating lions as revealed by dental microwear textures" (DeSantis & Patterson, 2016). In this document we finally see the true size of the skulls of the three man-eaters, and guess what, my calculations were correct. Let's check it:


*This image is copyright of its original author


We can see other skulls there, and we can confirm that the size of the skulls of the "big" lions, including the "giant" of Mfuwe are nothing exceptional, even below the average for the area. Let's compare them with the huge list provided by Roberts (1951):


*This image is copyright of its original author


Certainly, we can see that the body size of the Tsavo lions and the Mfuwe lion is just a myth (remember that also the number of people killed by the Tsavo lions has been put in doubt). Body measurements and skin mounts, specially taken "along the curves" by people with sensacional stories, can (and often do) err, but not the skulls, they are unaffected by shrinkage, trimming and exagerations (Patterson, 2004). These skulls are just average for the East African region, and smaller than those from Souther Africa.

Based in the data of Roberts (1951) and that of DeSantis & Patterson (2016), the biggest skulls from East Africa, correctly measured, are of 380 - 384 mm, and according with the email of Dr Yamaguchi, the giant specimen NMK OM 7935 from Kenya (the 272 kg cattle eater) measured 387 mm. All there were giants, but if we trust in the old records from Rowland Ward's Records of Big Game (1914) the biggest skull in the area is of 394 cm (measured "between uprights", so the skull probably was shorter if measured with callipers). I made a short study to get the body length of the giant lion using skulls, this is the result:

Based in skull length (387 mm) the head-body length "straight" was of 192 - 199 cm (depending if we use the Rowland Ward record) and a total length between 297 - 300 cm, certainly a true record! The most reliable figures (using the highest r2 value) are: Head-body 197 cm and 297 cm total length, for NMK OM 7935. Here are the calculations, data base and equations:


*This image is copyright of its original author



So, what happen when we do the same thing with the Tsavo lions and the Mfuwe lion? Here are the results:

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


So, based in the skulls, although with an small sample, these are the most realistic body measurements in "straight line" of these three famous man eaters:

Tsavo lion (first): 272 cm in total length and 177 cm in head-body length.

Tsavo lion (second): 275 cm in total length and 179 cm in head-body length.
Mfuwe lion: 279 cm total length and 183 cm in head-body length.
    * Shoulder height is normally 1/2 of head-body.

They are not small at all, but far from been the giants described. Even then, this should not affect the appreciation of the story and how terrible where the attacks. By the way, the Museum itself estimate a weight of 400 lb (181 kg) for the Tsavo lions, here is the image:

*This image is copyright of its original author


Based in the calculated sizes, the estimated weight seems reliable. Now, the weight of 550 lb (249.5 kg) estimated for the Mfuwe lion, which is based only in the stuffed specimen, is completelly unreliable.

Greetings and cheers.
3 users Like GuateGojira's post
Reply




Messages In This Thread
Man-eaters - peter - 04-03-2015, 01:08 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Pckts - 04-03-2015, 02:03 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Pckts - 04-03-2015, 02:26 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - peter - 04-03-2015, 02:52 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - GuateGojira - 04-03-2015, 09:20 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Pckts - 04-05-2015, 12:20 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Pckts - 04-05-2015, 12:45 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - peter - 04-05-2015, 07:07 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Amnon242 - 04-05-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - peter - 04-05-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - peter - 04-05-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Roflcopters - 04-05-2015, 04:19 PM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Pckts - 04-05-2015, 09:53 PM
RE: MAN-EATERS - peter - 04-06-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - GuateGojira - 04-07-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Pckts - 04-08-2015, 02:52 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - Pckts - 04-08-2015, 02:56 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - GuateGojira - 04-08-2015, 10:12 AM
RE: MAN-EATERS - peter - 04-09-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Roflcopters - 04-14-2015, 04:56 PM
RE: Man-eaters - GuateGojira - 04-15-2015, 10:12 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 04-15-2015, 09:19 PM
RE: Man-eaters - GuateGojira - 04-16-2015, 07:59 AM
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 04-16-2015, 10:42 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 04-16-2015, 09:39 PM
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 04-19-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: Man-eaters - GuateGojira - 04-19-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Roflcopters - 04-20-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 04-20-2015, 09:40 PM
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 05-10-2015, 07:15 AM
RE: Man-eaters - tigerluver - 05-11-2015, 12:17 AM
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 05-11-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pantherinae - 05-12-2015, 01:05 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Roflcopters - 05-12-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 05-12-2015, 11:59 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-12-2015, 10:10 PM
RE: Man-eaters - tigerluver - 05-13-2015, 01:20 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-13-2015, 01:28 AM
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 05-13-2015, 06:37 AM
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 05-13-2015, 07:34 AM
RE: Man-eaters - tigerluver - 05-13-2015, 08:14 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-13-2015, 09:43 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-13-2015, 09:48 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-14-2015, 12:03 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pantherinae - 05-18-2015, 03:33 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-18-2015, 09:46 PM
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 05-18-2015, 09:48 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-18-2015, 09:49 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-18-2015, 09:50 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-18-2015, 09:58 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 06-16-2015, 01:49 AM
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 04-01-2016, 12:21 PM
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 04-13-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 04-13-2016, 09:21 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 06-28-2016, 09:26 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 12-15-2016, 08:33 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 12-15-2016, 10:26 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 12-20-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Vinay - 12-21-2016, 01:29 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 12-21-2016, 02:04 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Ba Ba Lou - 12-21-2016, 04:05 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 12-21-2016, 05:24 AM
RE: Man-eaters - anand3690 - 12-29-2016, 03:35 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Matias - 12-30-2016, 07:19 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 12-30-2016, 08:46 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Ngala - 04-21-2017, 05:51 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Wolverine - 05-12-2018, 02:35 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Rishi - 05-12-2018, 05:11 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Wolverine - 05-12-2018, 05:29 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Rishi - 05-12-2018, 06:06 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Spalea - 05-12-2018, 12:12 PM
RE: Man-eaters - anand3690 - 05-02-2019, 04:32 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 04-07-2020, 03:22 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Lycaon - 04-07-2020, 06:12 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 04-07-2020, 06:26 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Styx38 - 04-07-2020, 07:08 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Ashutosh - 04-07-2020, 09:35 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 04-07-2020, 09:21 PM
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 04-07-2020, 09:57 PM
RE: Man-eaters - BorneanTiger - 04-19-2020, 11:17 AM
RE: Man-eaters - LoveLions - 05-22-2020, 02:11 AM
RE: Man-eaters - cheetah - 09-16-2020, 08:46 PM
RE: Man-eaters - fursan syed - 11-23-2022, 06:33 PM
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 07-17-2023, 11:54 PM
RE: Man-eaters - GuateGojira - 08-22-2023, 06:32 AM



Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB