Persian Leopard (Panthera pardus saxicolor)

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~~Styx38~~ Offline

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Joined: Aug 2018

#503

09-15-2023, 11:13 PM

(02-08-2022, 01:02 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-08-2022, 12:18 AM)Luipaard Wrote: @Pckts

Really? They don't look anything special? Are you telling me they're average-sized? Also the one you posted is Borna/M3 and was longer than a 75kg and he wasn't even fully mature. Also keep in mind they said he was at least 70kg. This is what they said about him on their website:

Quote:He was the largest leopard we investigated there and was famous among visitors to the park due to the stunning pictures so many were able to take of him.

It's the same source where you got the 70kg claim from (although you didn't notice the "at least" part) plus that same source stated males are generally around 67kg. Meanwhile they caught a 75kg male as well so it's impossible for him to be 70kg since Borna/M3 was the largest according to them.

Furthermore the ones LoveAnimals posted are 99% bigger. The second one with the wild boar kill originates from the same place as Borna/M3 and 75kg male M4 (Tandoureh National Park) so if I were to be conservative, i'd say he's similar in size. However, I think he's bigger since the wild boar kill gives perspective (it's clearly an adult wild boar and they're large in Iran).

The second one originates from the Hyrcanian forest in Northern Iran and here you find the absolute biggest Persian males. The biggest Persian skulls originate from this part of Iran, same goes for weight data. While we can't tell his measurements (height, etc), you can clearly see it's a juggernaut of a leopard. A very bulky male.

@GuateGojira

Here are links of the leopards LoveAnimals posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtGMa-hy_k
https://imgur.com/gallery/uXtaU6Q

Anyway, I agree and disagree at the same time with you regarding this:

Quote:there are very few leopards over 90 kg, most are about 50 - 70 kg, depending of the population.

While generally true, +90kg males are more commonly found in parts where leopards grew very big such as Iran. Remember the study Patterns of sexual dimorphism in the Persian Leopard (Panthera pardus saxicolor) and implications for sex differentiation (2014) where they gathered weights across the whole country of Iran (= most randomly selection there is). Out of 22 males, 4 males weighed more than 90kg which is almost one out of five. On average yes most males will weigh between 50kg-70kg.

Yeah, considering that is exactly what I wrote.
Neither specimen looks to be anything special to me.

In regards to the male I posted "M3", we all know the measurements claim was over the curves as well as him being between 4-6 years old in 2015 not to mention him having a longer BL than M2 or M1. He's a good sized male and said to be 70kg
Bickering over it saying "at least 70kg" means nothing, 70/75kg does it really matter? He's not near 100kg and looks more impressive to me than either of the Leopards posted. Not to mention if you're saying one comes from the same place and they said M3 was the largest in that region, how can you say the other is more impressive?

Lastly, the study you quote didn't measure any of their own cats specific to that study, it's just a collection of data. The idea that 1/5 Leopards measured reached more than 90kg is misleading. Not to mention Mohammad Farhadinia specifically states that males in the North in their prime weigh around 70kg and Kambiz states the largest male he knows of was 88kg from the Caspian Hyrcanian to go along with the amputated leopard. Farhadinia also states the heaviest males were all under 90kg, between 75-88kg.
Not to mention, if you're speaking about this table?

*This image is copyright of its original author

There are 25 males listed not including the amputated male and only 3 are within the 90-95 range.
The study mentioned only lists 21 so they probably excluded a male or two from the above table but since it's max is only 91kg's it's very possible that only 1 male reached 91kg and all others fell under that weight.