Persian Leopard (Panthera pardus saxicolor)

[AndresVida]

(02-10-2022, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: What's the difference?
At least or around 70kg's, neither is saying 90-100kg's and if they are using a specific weight of 70kg's as a gauging #, it doesn't matter IMO. Mind you,  I'm the one that posted that Leopard with the exact quotation.  

There is a distinct difference, since they are two statements that have a total different logical meaning.
"Around 70 kg" means "circa or close to" 70 kg, meaning it could weigh 70 kg or less. Remember the vet who mentioned the 95kg Persian leopard? Guess what he said: a leopard around 100 kg. Because around 100 kg means close to the 100 kg benchmark. And what is close to that? 95 kg! Exactly why "around 70 kg" would likely mean 70 kg or less, possibly about 65 + kg.

Now, "at least" doesn't mean the same thing as "around" it means that the leopard could have weighed no less than 70 kg and possibly even more:

*This image is copyright of its original author

So "around 70 kg" and "at least 70" kg aren't the same thing. 
But you actually said "IMO" and 100% respect that. Kudos
Case closed. 

(02-10-2022, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: You have males captured in multiple studies, the largest ever produced was 91kg. Next is the fact that we don't even know if it's full bellied or not, cattle killer or not, etc. So claiming that two other Cats from the exact same location as being record holders without any real data to go off of other than a fleeting glimpse from 100s of meters away strikes me more as a fanatical claim than anything else. Would be like me seeing one video of Tiger from 100s of meters away then stating that the Tiger is no doubt larger than any Tiger that's every been captured in history from that region

There are 4 males between 90-95 kg.
They were originally 3 because the 115 kg one was excluded (as it had to be, as it was never that big) but it should have been included as a "95 kg" male because that was its true weight. Just because it doesn't feel real to you doesn't mean I don't know it is. And I'm 100% sure that the 91 kg male was empty bellied, just like the 96.5 kg Namibian male that was apparently empty as Guate once stated in the size comparison, otherwise they would have excluded him. 

(02-10-2022, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: And what evidence are you talking about? Since I already presented the actual vet claiming it to be 115kg.

Haven't you read anything of what I wrote above?
By plenty of evidence I mean everything I posted above, namely E-mail from Mohammad confirming 95 kg to others who work for the persian leopard project confirming the weight of 95 kg, then comparing it to jaguars of 90-95 kg, showing clearly how comparable they are in size.

91.5 kg vs 95 kg

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

95 kg vs 95 kg

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Another image of the 95 kg leopard. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

What's more, I have this new comparison. This jaguar posted here 
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-modern-...#pid121496 
weighed 100 kg!
Is it true that it does not seem at all visible that it is of that size? Too bad, it is!

*This image is copyright of its original author

For comparison, the 95 kg leopard.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Photos can be deceiving and a very knowledgeable mod "tigerluver) also said one must not underestimate bone structure. Also the jaguar above is apparently 100kg so you don't have to look enormous in order to weigh that much.

You can't have clearer proofs than these, seriously do you still think it's not 95kg when it compares perfectly to the others? It IS comparable. Otherwise that's just keep pushing it's just because you don't want it to be comparable.
But seriously I don't need you to accept that weight or not, I know it's the real weight and reliable so that's enough for me.

As Balam also told me, I will just agree to disagree with you and nothing more. This debate about the leopard confirmed to be 95 kg turned repetitive and annoying. You will stick with your opinion and I will stick with my evidence. Peace. Nothing more about that leopard. 

(02-10-2022, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: So claiming that two other Cats from the exact same location as being record holders without any real data to go off of other than a fleeting glimpse from 100s of meters away strikes me more as a fanatical claim than anything else.

It does not mean anything, I have repeated several times that it was just my opinion and that you could easily go against me or something else, when you also used your opinion using another guessestimated (not weighed) male from which you also misunderstood the meaning of the message "At least 70 kg". Even Balam estimated it to be above average, and although my estimate of it being between 90-100 kg she gave as upper estimate of 87 kg which is still very high compared to the so called average size. You should join reddit and join the Jaguarland community btw, it's a very beautiful subreddit. 

(02-10-2022, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: I promise you that Balam doesn't buy anything about that Leopard, we have pages on top of pages going back and forth with Luipaard

You are wrong. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

She doesn't buy the fact that the leopard was 115 kg as everyone else, me included. I never believed the 115 kg mark.  And all those pages back with Luipaard was exactly about the leopard not being 115 kg. 
Again, I am talking about the 95 kg weight, Balam does consider it reliable and you're the only one that I've seen on the taptalk-carnivora-wildfact range who is still doubting that weight. It's only you. 

(02-10-2022, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: It's up to you, he's a friendly guy and likes to make time to respond. Regardless, I doubt there's much he's going to say since he already claims it at 115kg. But nothing is going to change the fact that the Leopard looks nothing close to that weight. 

Well you know what, Balam sent me a good long message regarding the possibilities of why it weighed that much, I will reproduce the message here:

I just noticed the conversation WF regarding the Persian leopard. Iman said that the leopard weighed 115 kg and that later the weight went bellow 100 kg, with multiple sources claiming it at 95 kg. Dr. Farhadina said that he saw the veterinary report where the weighed stipulated was 95 kg, keep in mind that Iman Memarian was not the only vet involved in the care of the leopard. So there are a few possible scenarios, that the leopard was initially weighed on a defective scale and the first value of 115 kg was simply erroneous, or that it was weighed soon after feeding and as a result it may have been gorged, with the second weight being from an empty belly. It is also possible that there may have been some miscommunications between the vet team regarding the initial capture, as Iman is the only person involved who has ever claimed the weight to be 115 kg, even when the official vet report stated 95 kg, which is why the 115 kg value was discarded from the scientific paper and is never quoted by any scientist or scientific institution, it is erroneous and not reliable. I would not think much else about it. "

So Pckts no matter what those voicemails are concerned, you can safely discard the 115 kg weight. It is simply wrong Reply