Impressive Wild Jaguars - Pictures and Videos

[Balam]

(04-07-2020, 12:39 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 11:36 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 11:15 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 11:01 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 10:53 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 10:32 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 10:27 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 10:11 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Huge Argentinian jaguars, these jaguars are tracked by the organization Redyaguarete, although they don't catch or weight these specimens so information on their sizes is only speculative

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:so information on their sizes is only speculative

But their pugmarks are not. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

As you can see, a 5'' Pug mark is generally a good sized male in the Pantanal
The ones below aren't quite 5'' and most are also in soft mud so make sure to adjust accordingly.  

*This image is copyright of its original author

I'm not comparing them to Pantanal jaguars, that being said we don't have any information regarding the age or sex of the pugmarks posted by redyaguarete, those could eaisly be females or juveniles specimens. They don't capture these jaguars so there isn't any acutal data on their sizes that is consize, based on their morphology they are extremly robust so I don't see them not challenging Pantanal specimens in size.

The largest one was a Male, I know that for sure.
But Jaguars are all very robust but camera trap photos are misleading.
You need real life video to get a better perspective and the Jaguars found in Argentina and Bolivia aren't as large as the Pantanal Jaguars.
Feel free to ask Nick from Bolivian adventures about how his Jaguars stack up. 
They also estimate their largest males to be 100kg but yes, they haven't weighed them. 


You can see here that these few aren't as large in comparison as well

So we don't have any actual reliable data on the sexes or age of jaguars hunted as well as the pawprints, therefore making calculations based on pictures just as accurate. The second dead jaguar shown is clearly a juvenile, I don't know what that's supposed to prove, again we don't know the age and sexes of those specimens so comparing them big Patanal toms is irrelevant. 
The silver lining is that outside of Pantanal most jaguars are not being captured and weighted so we don't have accurate information on how big they can get, but based on the multiple pictures from multiple angles provided by organizations like Redyaguarete is pretty clear that those in Argentina and Colombia grow just as big. Pantanal jaguars aren't an anomaly just the most studied ones, other organizations simply track their jaguar through camera traps and count them/study them based on their behavior.

Where have Redyaguarete claimed that their Jaguars are as large as Pantanal ones?
We have a fair amount of Jaguars from the Amazon as well as Mesoamerica and neither are going to compete with Pantanal Jaguars.
The only ones that are comparable are Los Llanos and even so, they are surpassed in Skull Size for both Male and Females in the Pantanal as well as the email I showed you from Rafael Hoogesteijin stating that they are comparable just the Pantanal has larger ones more often. Outside of Los Llanos/Pantanal there have been no Jaguars studied that can compete.
I'll get confirmation on Pug Mark sex as well

They haven't made that claim and they can't because they aren't tracking Pantanal jaguars nor are they measuring the ones from Argentina. They are providing us with photographic material and based on it we can make assessments on their sizes albeit not accurate ones. As I said, we don't have data on Llanos jaguars from Venezuela or Colombia as extensive as Pantanal jaguars - we have the one study that claimed Llanos jaguars were heavier on average and their skulls matched in size on average -, and we have no studies on Argentinian or Bolivian jaguars so we have reached a dead-end here. Until we get organizations actively tracking the weights and measurements of these jaguars populations the way Oncafari and Ocas do Rio Negro do all we can do is guess and speculate.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Venezuela Jaguars 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Notice the name, he is the one telling us that Pantanal Jaguars are larger on the regular.
When using averages, you're using only Almeida's which include Jaguars starting at 4 years old which will be smaller than older males, you can add Oncafari and Panthera jaguars to his total and that will easily rise.
For instance, Joker from Oncafari has larger specs than any Jaguar captured by Almeida, let alone the 148kg male captured by Hoogesteijin.
You're also using more Jaguars for Pantanal jags which can decrease the average generally since the more you use the larger the gap between the biggest and smallest cats.

*This image is copyright of its original author

If Los Llanos Jaguars weren't so persecuted they could easily rival or even surpass Pantanal Jaguars but that isn't the case.
But Los Llanos is massive, there could easily be even larger Jags there but no non Pantanal and Los Llanos Jaguars aren't as large no matter the location.

I don't think we are disagreeing on here, I'm pointing out something similar, we don't have the same amount of data for Llanos jaguars that we do for Pantanal jaguars so we don't really know how big they can get and what sizes they are currently averaging. For Venezuelan jaguars, we do have Almeida's measurements, but we have nothing for Colombian jaguars which is unfortunate. Jaguars are incredibly understudied and only until recently have we started to gather data on them thanks to the extensive research done by Brazilian conservationist organizations, but I'm very expectant to get more data from other populations so we can get a better idea on the behavior and morphology of jaguars in a broader sense. For now, camera trap footage is the best tool we have to appreciate these jaguars. Reply