Lions of Sabi Sands

[SMK350]

(01-31-2023, 03:20 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote:

(01-31-2023, 03:38 AM)SMK350 Wrote: @Duco Ndona Can you cite a source for that definition of territorial male? Ever article I looked up has “dominating a pride” as a criteria of being a territorial male. There’s a difference between showing territorial behaviors and being a territorial male.

Subadults can roar and scent mark too. Lions in zoos and sanctuaries roar ever night. The BDMs have entered the north as “challengers” but unless they actually secure a pride they are still, according to the scientific definition of lions, nomads. Same with the Torchwood and BirminghamMale. I heard recently killed subadults (born 2021) from the Birmingham pride. I think they’re showing great interest in Ngala and the prides there but so far they haven’t sealed the deal and taken over anything. 

Mohawk is avoiding confrontation with BDMs but I think it speaks volumes to his character that he’s still here. Every time he roars he’s putting himself in mortal danger. Did we just not see what happened to Nhenha? Let’s give the boy some credit. Many lions after loosing their brothers and having to deal with two huge males in their territory would have fled long ago. And I know that day may come soon, but it isn’t today.

Its just a observation. One problem with scientific definitions is typically that they try to come up with a overaching general theory of animal behavoir, neatly categorizing animal behavoirs in specific classes or categories. 
While in reality, these are very complex animals that just do as they please and can show behavoir in between these groups. 

Skorro and the Birminghams for example. are non territorial males dominating a pride. The PCmales also staked out northern Singita first and then worked on luring Nkuhuma lionesses towards them and taking over the Mhangeni. They even had a clash with Nym and Sym, which also were doing the same in singita back then. The Avocas took over large areas of Birmingham territory. Without making much gains if it comes to prides and the Nharu males were seen scentmarking on Nwas territory, just to see if they could. 

While it is true that male lions will eventually vacate a teritory if there is no prospect of any future mating opportunities. The mere prospect of mating is enough for them to lay claim to a piece of land. The whole must dominate a pride criteria should therefor not be seen as a checkbox before deeming a male lion territorial. Their actual behavoir is much to complex for that.

These labels like “territorial males” are created by scientists so they can accurately study and understand a species. I can’t just decide young males still with their prides are CUBS because, well, why should I call a lion SUBADULT if he’s still sitting at home with his mom? Lol. That’s not how this works.

No one has any confusion on when the Plains Camp males became territorial. They became territorial when they secured the two Nkuhumas in Singita. Every Singita guide will point to that event. The Avocas became territorial when they took over the Talamati pride… period. Long before that they roamed the Manyeleti where they roared, scent marked and even mauled the resident male of the Mbiri pride. But none of that matters. They were still nomads displaying territorial behavior but they still hadn’t secured a pride. It’s so simple and easy to understand. Literally no ranger or guide will tell you otherwise. No scientist will tell you otherwise.


So let’s not over-complicate things. Even in outlier examples you can apply this basic criteria. Is scorro territorial? No. He associates with his daughters and they are living a nomadic existence at the moment keeping a low profile to avoid detection from other males…. Simple. Reply