There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Guys after many years I thought I was the only person in the world with that thought.
I've never understood the reason a Puma is not a Pantera cat.
This roaring thing is an absurd in my opinion and the rest you guys already mentioned, ''Big cat'' the name already says its about size, Its not ''Roaring cat'' haha.
I never got the reason Pumas aren't big cats, for me they're the 4th largest cat regardless of what the ''science entity'' says is right.
So count me in on that boat.
My only question is who’s larger the cougar or the leopard they’re very close in size I do know that cougars reach the larger weights like 75,80,90, and 100kg more often than leopards but I heard the record leopard is heavier than the record cougar so I don’t know. We would have to look at how their skulls,teeth,and claws compare to each other and their length and shoulder height and overall their dimensions maybe male cougars are a tad bit larger than male leopards but female leopards are larger than female cougars idk. There will be a lot of overlapping between the two and it would be interesting to see which region has the largest cat and which region has the smallest out of the two . I know it would definitely be a lot closer than the jaguar/leopard size argument someone made here once.
The thing is who will keep its weight in the 100's kg range in its natural habitat more often and on higher weight. Even with a record size higher I think reaching higher weights more often would be more important if you ask me.
When I mentioned the larger I meant in weight/mass of the biggest MORE OFTEN, Both species overlap in size, Leopards are larger than Pumas on a few aspects such as the Head, Canines length, Neck, Skull ( dewlap might increase a little bit the neck girth but its up for debate )
The Puma got impressive Forearms, Hind legs, Front Paws imo.
I also think the Puma got longer claws too if I am not mistaken.
However when it comes to mass in general of the largest individuals the Puma is the bigger cat more often imo and as you can see Balam posted above a male Puma close to 110 kg in the Patagonia, Patagonia is a place that Pumas have been monitored but very rarely captured and now we got a clue on how big a large male Puma can get in those areas and it can happen more often than we imagine, the pics of large male Pumas in Patagonia is a proof.
There's also males verified in North America very close or slightly above the 100 kg range.
On the Leopard Side we got Congo/Savanna/Persian as the largest populations, despite some impressive looking individuals I've seen from Congo captured by camera traps, I am not sure if they're 100 kg, but they could be close, only the real captures will tell.
I heard somewhere of a male Leopard I think of around 113 kg if I am not mistaken which is very impressive.
About the females, the female Pumas could be small and so are leopards.
About the smallest of the 2, on the Pumas side I think Caatinga Pumas can be a very good candidate and o the Leopards side maybe Cape Leopard or Arabian Leopard.
One thing for sure is that its a close match and we need enough captures and datas collected from the largest of both species and from individuals to unravel how often they reach their largest sizes ( and how large ) to know it for real.
So far It will definitely take personal opinions to decide if record sizes is more important or if higher sizes more often ( even if bellow the record size ). But the truth is both species overlap in size and one will be more impressive than the other on a few aspects.
And even if the Leopard somewhat turns out to be the largest more often with higher weight it wouldn't take away our thought of the Puma not being a Pantera cat.
Thats my opinion.
About the Jaguar and Leopard size comparison, Its not a close match though.
The 113 kg leopard was debunked some time ago, it was a man water who was killed after badly clawing the face of a man and had plenty of stomach content. Someone also said that the scale in which it was weighed was defective which affected the accuracy of results.
I also do not believe Central African leopards to be among the biggest populations. There have been two captures of two males who were in somewhat of a dire state, and neither surpassed 50 kg in weight. Even if healthy, 50 kg is a far cry from the 100 kg estimated I have seen some suggest for those leopards. The biomass they consume is lower than that of savanna leopards, and the argument I often hear mention is that they have big and heavy skulls which could suggest a large body mass, but as @peter said recently, skull length is not the best determinant to gage body mass, and in my opinion, prey biomass is a more important factor.
Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Cougars
