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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 With all the genetics talk right now in the forum from what I can tell almost all of the prides in Sabi Sands is related to each other LOL. Anyone know what pride with new blood is the most newcomer here in Sabi Sands except the renaming like with the Talamati to Msuthlu or not like Kambula being a breakaway of Mhangeni?
 (Today, 02:24 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Potato I wouldn't mind this as a temporary name, but we're way past this, they could, as I said, be renamed a new pride. That would work as well. Calling her Ximhunghwe doesn't make any sense for me and is in fact confusing, it is like we would name breakaway from Kambula pride as "Sparta" pride as because some people are attached to the pride and want it to remain even if in fact that new pride will have nothink at all to do with oryginal Sparta pride. Also personally I do not understand that odd (at least from my point of view) attachment. Prides thrive for some time then go extinct and the new prides take heir place, cycle of nature, nothink wrong with that. Nothink and noone lives forever.  (Today, 03:35 AM)sunless Wrote: Let me try the new sand river pride isn’t related to any of these prides but the ximhungwe othawa mhangeni kambula tsalala Styx southern ntsevu are all related mostly due to the west street males and their sons and majingaline and then it’s the nkuhuma nkuhuma breakaway and talamati msuthu but I think the ximhungwe pride is the original breakaway pride from the tsalala pride back in the day I could be wrong tho (Today, 01:42 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote:(Today, 12:30 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote:(Yesterday, 11:56 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I think we are putting far more importance on this whole bloodline thing than is reasonable. I get what you’re saying I do I really do but she was born in the othawa pride lol we can’t change that she can leave her pride and join another but that doesn’t change that she’s an othawa tho am I right or wrong? If someone does their research and goes oh wait she’s not really from the ximhungwe pride then she’s not a “real” ximhungwe female if she wasn’t born in the pride how is that wrong? Not trying to confuse anyone but it’s just facts to be honest if you go back from her daughters and all it’ll take you right back to Sassy Othawa, but I think we should put this discussion to bed I forgot what the first response was to be honest lol (Yesterday, 09:37 PM)Mapokser Wrote: My bet is that if Ximhungwe female dies without leaving female offspring in the pride, the name will officially carry on with the Othawa-blooded lions and I can 100% see why they'd go this way and don't disagree with it necessarily. 100% (Today, 03:58 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote:(Today, 03:35 AM)sunless Wrote: WOW so Sand River Pride did really not get mixed with the Prides in Sabi Sands are they more related to the Kruger Prides rather than in Sabi Sands, what do you all think is their closest related pride in Kruger is it the pride that is near them like Plain Camps Pride or are there more? (Today, 04:20 AM)sunless Wrote:(Today, 03:58 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote:(Today, 03:35 AM)sunless Wrote: Yeah probably the plains camp pride and any pride that has mantimahles offspring so nkuhuma breakaways mhangeni and ximhungwes now 
The thing with the Othawa Breakaway female being a Ximhungwe is... Why isn't Ximhungwe an Othawa Breakaway instead?
At the time they became a pride, it was the most appropriate time for a new name, since they went with Ximhungwe pride, then bloodlines are already ignored, because if not, the "real name" of the current pride should be Othawa Breakaway-Ximhungwe pride. Edit: @Potato Well, technically speaking, by your logic, in fact, it'd make way more sense for the Ntsevu pride to be called Sparta pride than the possible Ximhungwe pride without the Ximhungwe blood. The 3 Ntsevu females are granddaughters of the Sparta ( Mapogo ) males, their mothers the daughters of the Sparta males, so they live in the same territory and are directly descendent from the Sparta pride, but instead of an unbroken female line, they come from the male line. Anyway they did name the current Sand River Pride as the SRP despite them having nothing to do with the OG Sand River Pride killed off by humans in 2007 and 2009.  (Today, 05:21 AM)Mapokser Wrote: The thing with the Othawa Breakaway female being a Ximhungwe is... Why isn't Ximhungwe an Othawa Breakaway instead? Because Gingerella was a lone nomadic lioness, there was no established Othawa breakaway pride with a territory in existence. The Ximunghwe pride was already in the area and had a territory, after the second Ximunghwe died, the remaining Ximunghwe was a lone lioness and that's probably why she accepted Gingerella into the pride in the first place. Gingerella was adopted into the Ximunghwe pride and for all intents and purposes is a Ximunghwe. Changing the name if the last Ximunghwe dies without passing on her genes is neither here or there imo. Renaming the pride only creates confusion at this point, and I wouldn't be opposed to the Ximunghwe name carrying on even if in name only in the event the Ximunghwe lioness passes on without passing on her bloodline within the pride. I think it makes for an even better story that in an unexpected twist of fate, an Othawa lioness ends up keeping the Ximunghwe name alive despite the violent history between the two prides in the past.
Ximhungwe was a lone nomad without a territory or pride when they joined up.
Othawa Breakaway was a full-fledged independent young lioness, she wasn't adopted, she joined forces with another lone female. If the Othawa Breakaway had been accepted in a pride, sure, but she wasn't, there was no pride to be accepted in, only a lone female, like herself. By definition a pride is a group of 2 or more lions, so there was no Ximhungwe pride, just the Ximhungwe lioness. It's like if K12 joins say the Talamati female and they suddenly become the Talamati pride. (11 hours ago)Mapokser Wrote: Ximhungwe was a lone nomad without a territory or pride when they joined up. Not how I remember it. The two Ximunghwe had and the current Ximunghwe pride still have that same territory, just because one of the two Ximunghwes died, it doesn't mean the remaining Ximunghwe was suddenly nomadic. Can someone fact-check me on this? (11 hours ago)Mapokser Wrote: she joined forces with another lone female. She joined forces with the last remaining lone lioness of a territorial pride, the Ximunghwe was in that area for years before Gingerella arrived and Gingerella stayed in that territory ever since. (11 hours ago)Mapokser Wrote: By definition a pride is a group of 2 or more lions, so there was no Ximhungwe pride, just the Ximhungwe lioness. That's just arguing semantics. Sure, the last remaining lioness of the Ximunghwe pride. Doesn't change the fact that she was still dominant over the territory she had carved out with her sister. (11 hours ago)Mapokser Wrote: It's like if K12 joins say the Talamati female and they suddenly become the Talamati pride. That's not the same at all. K12 and Talamati female are both nomadic lionesses unlike the Ximunghwe lioness who had been territorial in that area for years with her sister beforehand, so they don't have to take one name or the other. Can I get a 3rd opinion on this? 
While we are discussing the issue of prides.
Please forgive my ignorance. I have been reading to understand more about the history of prides, I have read about Talimati, Mhangeni, Kambula, Tsalala, Othawa, Styx... but I have not found any content about Ximhungwe, Sparta. Can anyone summarize or direct where I can read? Thanks in advance! (10 hours ago)WIND-772 Wrote: While we are discussing the issue of prides. Hi if searching names and no information. On Facebook searching name can help. History and information. (10 hours ago)sik94 Wrote:Hi is interesting. Like Tsalala lioness alone. Now is with Palin camp, but lone lioness. I always thought now would be difficult, because support of plain camp makes her territorial? Wonder if Ximugwe lioness having a sister would want a partner a sister. Tslala is a lone lioness; she is use to being alone.(11 hours ago)Mapokser Wrote: Ximhungwe was a lone nomad without a territory or pride when they joined up.  (10 hours ago)sik94 Wrote: Not how I remember it. The two Ximunghwe had and the current Ximunghwe pride still have that same territory, just because one of the two Ximunghwes died, it doesn't mean the remaining Ximunghwe was suddenly nomadic. Can someone fact-check me on this? 2 Ximhungwes where semi nomadic lionesses, hanging from western sector, thru north and all the way to Manyeleti, mating with territorial males on the way. As her sister died, she with daughter mostly stayed in western sector as they become friends with Tumbelas, mostly Limper. Turning point i think was arrival of NK/Nhenha, and her joining with Gingerella around the same time, as they overpowered Othawas with help of NK/Nhenha. Not sure if she could be called fully territorial before that happened, as she was lone lioness, i mean, is Tsalala lioness fully territorial? Lone lionessee are usually semi nomadic/territorial, they stay/traverse same area, but cant fully claim it as they are, well, alone. |
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