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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 (09-10-2023, 02:17 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its hard to be joyfull for the occasion when these cubs have a very uncertain future ahead of them.I agree, I imagine it’s a situation for the PCMS where if they survive, great, they carry on the bloodline but if they die it’s at no real cost. However, the 10 Mhangeni cubs dying would be a disaster for them, seeming as they spend more time with the Mhangeni it wouldn’t only be devastation for the loss of the cubs but it would be a direct threat to the lives of the PCMs.  (09-10-2023, 02:17 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its hard to be joyfull for the occasion when these cubs have a very uncertain future ahead of them. Agreed, one question in regards to that situation is who fathered those cubs, and who killed them. We'll obviously never know, but at the time they had been seen mating with different males, and those same males continued to come around on a rotating basis. (09-10-2023, 02:29 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Agreed, one question in regards to that situation is who fathered those cubs, and who killed them. We'll obviously never know, but at the time they had been seen mating with different males, and those same males continued to come around on a rotating basis.Surely there must have been quite a few instances where a male lion(s) has killed offspring they had unknowingly sired. I remember hearing about a Mapogo situation with the Styx Pride when they were with the last Rollercoaster Male, it was said he had for sure fathered the 3 elder cubs at the time, but the last 7 were either his, the Mapogos or a combination. Didn’t follow up with it but I’m guessing the Mapogos ended up killing quite a few if not all of them when they could have very well been their offspring or atleast related to a member of the coalition, obviously the RC male believing they were his wouldn’t have helped the cubs. (09-10-2023, 02:42 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-10-2023, 02:29 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Agreed, one question in regards to that situation is who fathered those cubs, and who killed them. We'll obviously never know, but at the time they had been seen mating with different males, and those same males continued to come around on a rotating basis.Surely there must have been quite a few instances where a male lion(s) has killed offspring they had unknowingly sired. I remember hearing about a Mapogo situation with the Styx Pride when they were with the last Rollercoaster Male, it was said he had for sure fathered the 3 elder cubs at the time, but the last 7 were either his, the Mapogos or a combination. Didn’t follow up with it but I’m guessing the Mapogos ended up killing quite a few if not all of them when they could have very well been their offspring or atleast related to a member of the coalition, obviously the RC male believing they were his wouldn’t have helped the cubs. For sure, that is exactly what I was referring to with the Xim cubs. They could have been sired by Skorro Jr, or one of the PCMs, and could have been killed by the sire, as we do not know who or what killed them. I have also read that the two youngest Mapogo were possibly fathered by the Rollercoaster Males, as they were seen mating with their mother in the months prior to having given birth. If true that adds a whole other dimension to the story, making the Rollercoaster Males half brothers to some, and fathers to other Mapogos. 
Lions do not have paternity testing. It may ultimately boil down to who the cubs are introduced to first.
Furthermore. If the PCmales are hanging out with the pride. Skorro may follow gingerella once she breaks away from the others to check on the cubs. The big issue lies with the Othawa pride. If the Ximhungwes keep losing litters until those two reach sexual maturity, the two prides will be in cubs race in which the pride that first reaches the numeral superiority needed to push the other out wins. 
The current cuba are 100% sired by PCM who were the only ones to mate with the females for so long ( and every single day without a break ) that at some point it had been like 2 months since thet were last seen with Manghenis and may not even had been aware of their 9 cubs there.
Only chance Tumbela thinks the cubs are his is if he mated with the mothers briefly when he was with Nkuhuma, a false estrus or whatever, possibly, the fact he was with Ximhungwes recently and the cubs are still alive is good news that he might not try to kill them. But ideally Ximhungwes would try to chase him off if he tries to do something. @Duco Ndona true with Othawa pride, but it's worth mentioning that the territory is big enough for both prides, back in the Selati times we had 4-5 Ximhungwe with the southern part of the Western Sector and 3 Othawas with the northern part. Some clashes happened which is normal but it worked out nicely. Same can happen now if both prides have similar numbers, only thing to worry about would be the southern pride avoiding western Savannah which is Mangheni territory. @BA0701 Yeah there's this possibility with the youngest Mapogos and videos claimed to be the females with Rollercoasters, though interesting Rob says it's hearsay and there was no report of the Rollercoaster mating with the Sparta pride. It doesn't help that the last Rollercoaster is very similar looking to KT, though not as much as KT is to 1/5 WSM who is also, of course, very similar to the last Rollercoaster. @KM600 Similar scenario also happened with NK pride. Mapogos harassed this pride all the way from december 2007 to mid 2009 when Gijimas finally took over there. Originally there were 10 females and 15 cubs by Dozie and Blondie, but at least half the cubs were killed and we don't know what came of the rest, but Mapogos mated with NK females from early 2008 all the way to early 2009, so at some point they might have attacked their own cubs.
Eh. The Othawas ended up killing every adult member of the Ximhungwe pride back then.
Only to then befall the same fate in return once the Ximhungwes gotten the opportunity a few years later. I dont think these two prides will be peacefully coexisting 
These cubs are 99% from PCMs, as we didnt see Tumbela mating with Ximhungwes.
Also, dont think Tumbela will harm the cubs, as he is not in a "takeover" mode, he pretty much follows them for food and Ximhungwes will prob react very agressive if he comes near the cubs with wrong intentions.
He is also in no obligation to protect or not harm them either.
If the situation annoys him, they are done for. (09-10-2023, 06:08 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Only chance Tumbela thinks the cubs are his is if he mated with the mothers briefly when he was with Nkuhuma, a false estrus or whatever, possibly, the fact he was with Ximhungwes recently and the cubs are still alive is good news that he might not try to kill them.The cubs have only just been spotted, I very much doubt Tumbela knows of their existence. At 3 weeks old they should still be separated from the rest of the pride and by the video and it’s bushy surroundings I’m guessing they still are. 
Ah the age old paternity discussion...
S8 Male today by Darryn Gates  *This image is copyright of its original author
(09-10-2023, 03:59 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(09-10-2023, 03:32 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Ah the age old paternity discussion... LionLovers claiming it might have been with RRM as he’s been seen with injuries, wouldn’t rule out the possibility of the BDMs either tho as S8 likes to stand his ground and they’ve been bullying the Talamati breakaways for a while now, seems they’ve switched onto them as opposed to the Nkuhumas. (09-10-2023, 04:48 PM)KM600 Wrote: LionLovers claiming it might have been with RRM as he’s been seen with injuries, wouldn’t rule out the possibility of the BDMs either tho as S8 likes to stand his ground and they’ve been bullying the Talamati breakaways for a while now, seems they’ve switched onto them as opposed to the Nkuhumas. If he has injuries only on his head, then its more logical that he fought 1 male rather then 2. He was lately not seen with Talamatis. (09-10-2023, 06:45 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:Was thinking the same thing, 2 males would have surrounded him and I don’t think they would have risked a face-to-face encounter.(09-10-2023, 04:48 PM)KM600 Wrote: LionLovers claiming it might have been with RRM as he’s been seen with injuries, wouldn’t rule out the possibility of the BDMs either tho as S8 likes to stand his ground and they’ve been bullying the Talamati breakaways for a while now, seems they’ve switched onto them as opposed to the Nkuhumas. |
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