There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(03-27-2022, 10:04 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: 213kg in winter for P212 was/is an estimation he was never weighed beyond 2yrs 11 months old at 180kgs+ he died at 4
A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
03-28-2022, 12:52 AM( This post was last modified: 03-28-2022, 12:53 AM by Charger01 )
(03-27-2022, 11:11 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
(03-22-2022, 09:05 PM)Jerricson Wrote: Hello guate , I have quite read your posts regarding weights of lion and tigers and they r quite informative. I just wanted to enquire about madlas (m-125) weight. In one of the documents , its said he weighed around 220-230kg and in another mail from Dr. Raghu Chundawat , he was stated to weigh around 250kg. So whats the final conclusion on his weight??
On the weight of Madla male - M-125:
Good question and this is something that I wanted to wrote about since some time ago.
As we know, Dr Chundawat managed to observe several male tigers during his 10 years study in Panna, directly and indirectly, but he could capture only two: M-91 and M-125.
Acording with at least two independent sources, both males weighed 250 kg or more, but there are details that we need to check.
Here is the first source from M-91:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The next one is the confirmation via the person that witnesed the weighing (Mike Birkhead) of male M-125 and is supported by the documentary "Tigers in the Emerald Forest":
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, as we can see, both of them are very big male tigers, but Dr Chundawat mentions that they were baited so he adjusted the weights of all his tigers. The book from 2018 "The Rise and Fall of the Emerald Tigers" is the last word on the study of the Panna tigers during the 10 years that Dr Chundawat worked with the tigers. In his book he says that based in visual estimation the stomach content was estimated between 25 - 30 kg. However, there is an important point on this, check this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, as we can see the "visual estimation" seems to be exagerated as the actual stomach content was of 19 kg for the largest male, which interestingly match with the averages stablished by Dr Sunquist in Nepal (1981) with ranges between 14 - 19 kg in 24 hours.
And finally this stament is the one that pushed me to investigate all this case:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, we can see that he says that the biggest tiger was M-91, not M-125, so what about this email?
*This image is copyright of its original author
As we can see, the entire explanation on the email is, in fact, what happen when they weighed the male M-91, not M-125, and that is the confusion. That is something that we can see here:
*This image is copyright of its original author
There it is showed that the real weight of male M-91 "empty" was more than 240 kg, and this because the male bottomed the scale of 250 kg, they knew that the scale could weight 10 kg more (total of 260 kg available by the scale) and taking in count that the tiger ate 19 kg, the final value was of 241 kg, but as there is no form to know how much more the tiger actually weighed, they stated that the empty weight was just over 240 kg.
Now about male M-125 (Madla tiger) its weight is stated between 220 - 230 kg because 20-30 kg is the stomach amount estimated by the workers, but probably the real amount will be the same as the other male, so its empty weight will be 230 kg. There is no other mention if this tiger also bottomed the scale or not, only that male M-91 was bigger. Sadly, we only have one picture of it and apparently the male "Hairyfoot" was even bigger than both of them, probably another cantidate for 260 kg "empty", but sadly it was not captured.
So, this is the conclution based in the facts, the real weight of male M-125 was of 250 kg and that of M-91 was over 260 kg, but when adjusted for stomach content they were calculated at 230 and 240+ kg respectivelly.
Hope this helps to clasify the issue and if no one noticed before, I have been used the 240 kg figure since many months ago.
Is interesting that now the sample of Panna is, for the moment, the largest (talking about numbers) among scientific sources in India, with average figures of 216 kg (n=8; range: 180 - 240+ kg) for males and 129 kg (n=9; range= 105 - 152 kg) for females.
That's interesting. At just 19 kg of beef, the tiger appeared to be fully fed.
The other interesting thing was, while studying tigers, the first researchers i.e. Dr. Karanth and Dr. Chundawat adjusted the tigers for meat they ate. These first studies set the standards for modern research. I wonder if researchers still carry out similar procedures of recording tiger weights after adjusting them for food.
(03-27-2022, 10:04 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: 213kg in winter for P212 was/is an estimation he was never weighed beyond 2yrs 11 months old at 180kgs+ he died at 4
But the weight of 190 kg is definitely accurate.
(03-28-2022, 12:52 AM)Khan85 Wrote:
(03-27-2022, 11:11 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
I did ask them but got no reply.
Bamera was arrested in late 2015 or early 2016 and spent the last six months of her life in a captive breeding facility in maghdi. The bamera son was treated for a fight injury in 2018, and the bamera son appears to have been treated multiple times.
(03-27-2022, 03:17 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: But the weight of 190 kg is definitely accurate.
It is not, in fact I was checking the document of Kumar et al. (2022) and there are no new weights or even estimations after its capture at 2 years 6 months, contrary for example with P243, P111 and T3.
So, I don't know what to think about this figures of 190-213 kg for P-212.
(03-28-2022, 03:40 AM)Khan85 Wrote: That's interesting. At just 19 kg of beef, the tiger appeared to be fully fed.
The other interesting thing was, while studying tigers, the first researchers i.e. Dr. Karanth and Dr. Chundawat adjusted the tigers for meat they ate. These first studies set the standards for modern research. I wonder if researchers still carry out similar procedures of recording tiger weights after adjusting them for food.
I am affraid that researchers probably still use those figures to adjust the weights of tigers using those figures (20-30 kg) when it seems that are too high in most of the cases.
By the way, may you tell me which are the weights that Dr Karanth quote on his book, for the tigers that he captured? I think those figures are going to be more reliable based in a resent discovery that I found about the figures published by Dr Sunquist in the book of 2002.
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
(03-22-2022, 09:05 PM)Jerricson Wrote: Hello guate , I have quite read your posts regarding weights of lion and tigers and they r quite informative. I just wanted to enquire about madlas (m-125) weight. In one of the documents , its said he weighed around 220-230kg and in another mail from Dr. Raghu Chundawat , he was stated to weigh around 250kg. So whats the final conclusion on his weight??
On the weight of Madla male - M-125:
Good question and this is something that I wanted to wrote about since some time ago.
As we know, Dr Chundawat managed to observe several male tigers during his 10 years study in Panna, directly and indirectly, but he could capture only two: M-91 and M-125.
Acording with at least two independent sources, both males weighed 250 kg or more, but there are details that we need to check.
Here is the first source from M-91:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The next one is the confirmation via the person that witnesed the weighing (Mike Birkhead) of male M-125 and is supported by the documentary "Tigers in the Emerald Forest":
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, as we can see, both of them are very big male tigers, but Dr Chundawat mentions that they were baited so he adjusted the weights of all his tigers. The book from 2018 "The Rise and Fall of the Emerald Tigers" is the last word on the study of the Panna tigers during the 10 years that Dr Chundawat worked with the tigers. In his book he says that based in visual estimation the stomach content was estimated between 25 - 30 kg. However, there is an important point on this, check this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, as we can see the "visual estimation" seems to be exagerated as the actual stomach content was of 19 kg for the largest male, which interestingly match with the averages stablished by Dr Sunquist in Nepal (1981) with ranges between 14 - 19 kg in 24 hours.
And finally this stament is the one that pushed me to investigate all this case:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, we can see that he says that the biggest tiger was M-91, not M-125, so what about this email?
*This image is copyright of its original author
As we can see, the entire explanation on the email is, in fact, what happen when they weighed the male M-91, not M-125, and that is the confusion. That is something that we can see here:
*This image is copyright of its original author
There it is showed that the real weight of male M-91 "empty" was more than 240 kg, and this because the male bottomed the scale of 250 kg, they knew that the scale could weight 10 kg more (total of 260 kg available by the scale) and taking in count that the tiger ate 19 kg, the final value was of 241 kg, but as there is no form to know how much more the tiger actually weighed, they stated that the empty weight was just over 240 kg.
Now about male M-125 (Madla tiger) its weight is stated between 220 - 230 kg because 20-30 kg is the stomach amount estimated by the workers, but probably the real amount will be the same as the other male, so its empty weight will be 230 kg. There is no other mention if this tiger also bottomed the scale or not, only that male M-91 was bigger. Sadly, we only have one picture of it and apparently the male "Hairyfoot" was even bigger than both of them, probably another cantidate for 260 kg "empty", but sadly it was not captured.
So, this is the conclution based in the facts, the real weight of male M-125 was of 250 kg and that of M-91 was over 260 kg, but when adjusted for stomach content they were calculated at 230 and 240+ kg respectivelly.
Hope this helps to clasify the issue and if no one noticed before, I have been used the 240 kg figure since many months ago.
Is interesting that now the sample of Panna is, for the moment, the largest (talking about numbers) among scientific sources in India, with average figures of 216 kg (n=8; range: 180 - 240+ kg) for males and 129 kg (n=9; range= 105 - 152 kg) for females.
Thnx guate. Also i wanted to enquire about ustaads weight. Theres nearly 3 figures - 215kg,258kg and 240kg. Can u confirm which is the most reliable one?
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
I did ask them but got no reply.
Are you able to provide who gave you the info?
It was Dr. Sunal
I didn't know he was involved in Bamera's capture, that's great info.
I wish we had some more details on Bamera, that's way larger than I thought he would of been at the time of his capture. If that weight is true, he really could of been a 250kg cat in his prime.
The following 1 user Likes Pckts's post:1 user Likes Pckts's post • Charger01
03-29-2022, 03:41 AM( This post was last modified: 03-29-2022, 04:13 AM by Pckts )
(03-29-2022, 02:52 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(03-29-2022, 02:44 AM)Khan85 Wrote:
(03-28-2022, 08:45 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(03-28-2022, 12:52 AM)Khan85 Wrote:
(03-27-2022, 11:11 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
I did ask them but got no reply.
Are you able to provide who gave you the info?
It was Dr. Sunal
I didn't know he was involved in Bamera's capture, that's great info.
I wish we had some more details on Bamera, that's way larger than I thought he would of been at the time of his capture. If that weight is true, he really could of been a 250kg cat in his prime.
More of Dr. Sunal/Panna team being involved.
Tiger Protection Society
5/20/2016
Injured Bamera tiger dies in Bandhavgarh
Battling for life for almost six months in an enclosure at Bandhavgarh National Park in Madhya Pradesh, an injured male tiger 'Bamera' died on Thursday morning.
The big cat, found grievously injured after a territorial fight, was not responding to treatment, park sources said. Experts from the state's Panna National Park, who treated the tiger, found limping in November, 2015. "The tiger was to be shifted to a zoo. But we had lost all hopes of its survival," said a forest department official.
Madhya Pradesh has lost 24 tigers since January last year. Eleven died in last four months of either poisoning or electrocution.
Two cubs died at the state's Kanha National Park recently after the tigress and two cubs died of poisoning elsewhere.
The following 1 user Likes Pckts's post:1 user Likes Pckts's post • Charger01
(03-27-2022, 10:25 PM)Khan85 Wrote: A researcher involved in capturing tigers in central India told that Bamera of Bandhavgarh weighed 221 kg. I know for sure that late Bamera was never captured in his life so probably he meant T37 aka Bamera son. If I'm correct he was captured in Nov-Dec 2021 when he was very skinny and sick.
If you can get more info on this That’d be great. I believe Bamera was captured later in life and Bamera Son as well. Both were in bad shape when captured.
I did ask them but got no reply.
Are you able to provide who gave you the info?
It was Dr. Sunal
I didn't know he was involved in Bamera's capture, that's great info.
I wish we had some more details on Bamera, that's way larger than I thought he would of been at the time of his capture. If that weight is true, he really could of been a 250kg cat in his prime.
More of Dr. Sunal/Panna team being involved.
Tiger Protection Society
5/20/2016
Injured Bamera tiger dies in Bandhavgarh
Battling for life for almost six months in an enclosure at Bandhavgarh National Park in Madhya Pradesh, an injured male tiger 'Bamera' died on Thursday morning.
The big cat, found grievously injured after a territorial fight, was not responding to treatment, park sources said. Experts from the state's Panna National Park, who treated the tiger, found limping in November, 2015. "The tiger was to be shifted to a zoo. But we had lost all hopes of its survival," said a forest department official.
Madhya Pradesh has lost 24 tigers since January last year. Eleven died in last four months of either poisoning or electrocution.
Two cubs died at the state's Kanha National Park recently after the tigress and two cubs died of poisoning elsewhere.
Means it was original bamera. Do you, by any chance, have pics of him when he was captured?
Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers
