There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(10-24-2023, 04:16 PM)lfelipe86 Wrote: I have found this article about Caspian tigers extinction and sightings in Turkey!! It tells about how caspian tigers may have survived long after they were considered officialy extinct!!
In the article they talk about sightings in Sirnak in 2001!! However i´ve read reports of caspian tiger sightings in Sirnak and Hakkari after that! In 2002 and 2003 and in Hakkari in 2007 and 2010!
And appears that caspian tigers existed in southwestern Turkey until recently too!
Very informative and interesting article, Felipe. Much appreciated!
Thank you, there was another article about animals believed to be extinct for decades and later found alive that talked about caspian tigers in Turkey and sightings there in Hakkari and Sirnak in 2002, 2003 and 2010! much more recent than the ones mentioned in the article i posted, but i could not find it anymore!
What really surprised me was the fact that tigers were found in Antalya, southwestern Turkey up to the 80´s!!
A former friend is from eastern Turkey. He visits his family members and friends just about every year and told me wild boar hunters in particular often found prints of big cats about a decade ago. I don't think it's superfluous to add they, on account of their experience, were able to tell the difference between leopards and tigers. They were sure Turkey still had tigers in 2010. Most tigers lived in elevated districts and kept a low profile.
A new member of Wildfact said there many signs of tigers northeast of the Caspian were found in the recent past. Some years ago, I posted a report in the tiger extinction thread about sightings of Caspian tigers in one of the former Sowjet republics. Same for Afghanistan. The report you posted confirms the information I have.
It's a fact the info wasn't used. It also didn't result in articles in newspapers and documentaries. A result of a lack of reliable information from authorities and experts? Maybe. But it also is a fact tigers are not wanted in most countries. I'm not only referring to most former Sowjet republics in central parts of Asia. In central parts of China, persistent rumours about big cats resulted in a visit of a competent man with a degree. He was sure tigers were still present in some districts of central China in 2011. His findings were discussed in the tiger extinction thread, but not in China. The singer in the band I played in is from Java. She showed me recent reports about tigers in Java.
I'm not saying all reports about sighting are reliable. They aren't. Nearly all biologists are sure Panthera tigris virgata is gone. Same for P.t. amoyensis and P.t. sondaica. In most regions that still have a few wild tigers, they are threatened. Tigers are poached in Sumatra, Malaysia, Thailand, Burma and Nepal. Same, most unfortunately, for India and Russia. The tide seems to have turned once again. Maybe the real question is if tigers are wanted in regions that still have them.
Tigers hunt large animals. Large animals, apart from those living on alluvial flood plains, need a lot of room, meaning tigers also need a lot of room. In today's world, this is a problem. The Russian Far East is an exception in this respect. As a result of conservation, the number of Amur tigers increased. They're now seen in districts where they were hunted to extinction half a century ago. More tigers mean more confrontations, as humans are just about everywhere. In times of need, like in a severe winter or during a disease that affects wild herbivores, close proximity can result in problems. Most of the time, desperate tigers hunt domestic animals. These attacks result in fear and less support for conservation. In densely populated regions, chances are humans will be attacked sooner or later.
In the long run, tigers only stand a chance in remote regions with tough living conditions and few humans. Regions that qualify are few and far between and they, on top of that, really need to be empty (referring to humans). As the human population continues to grow, this development can have one outcome only. Meaning a decision has to be taken. The vital question is if we are prepared to offer room to our neighbours.
(10-31-2023, 06:56 AM)Matias Wrote:
(10-31-2023, 03:35 AM)lfelipe86 Wrote: I agree with everything that you wrote, however to get confirmation, effort to get those confirmations are needed!! At Zanzibar sightings were been recorded for years and nothing was done, they were always dismissed as not true! Just like caspian tigers, not only in Iran but other places like Afghanistan and Kazakhstan!! It took a foreigner(Galante) to go there and get it on camera!, If it is a viable population or not only more research can tell and again nothing has been done since than or just not enough! Many evidence of tigers have been found and they are dismissed by authorities just like the Zanzibar leopard case!!! For exemple: a few years ago, a tigress with cubs was reported near a village in Kalaleh, the authorities just dismissed it as not true because there has been no reports of tigers by officials in the area, which is again not true, many rangers have reported tigers in Golestan area over the years like i mentioned!! Scats that could have been collected have been reported by locals, pugmarks, etc... , even the iranian department found pugmarks at parvar that were been reported for years! Paul Joslin had found 17cm pugmarks in northern iran way befored those from de iranian department! those are very isolated areas! They get leopards in camera traps, they just need to take them to more isolated areas and follow the sightings!
Unlike Zanzibar, Central asia and the middle east are huge places with many isolated areas that could still hide tigers! If an island so small like Zanzibar can hide a leopard, imagine central asia and the middle east! Your points are valid! but to get those confirmations they need go get pass their lazarus effects and others that probably are holding them back!
The situations that lead people to claim to have seen an animal, its footprints, feces, its actions, its predations... are much deeper than you can imagine.
After Forest Galante published his video on the Animal Planet program, this study was published HERE.
I understand that you would like to provide first-hand information, but there are natural checks and balances in situations that require a lot of caution and little passion.
A few years after the disappearance of the last western black rhinos (Diceros bicornis longipes) in Cameroon, a team went there to map and, unbelievably, clues were forged by the hired trackers themselves, to perpetuate the idea that some individuals were still in this landscape. Each iconic large animal that has disappeared has a complex network of stories that always bring them back.
Every case is a case! Unique!
My exemples regarding the caspian tigers with papers published by official govenerment offices like the ones from Turkey, or the tigers pugmarks and skats by iranian department can never be compared to fake clues by african trackers that can be easily proved faked!
My arguments remain:
Caspian tigers presence in countries like Turkey, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and especially Iran need to be taken more seriously and carefully!
How can someone be sure of an animal extinction in a place for exemple like Afghanistan? With isolated areas where no body can reach? Or reach easily? The proof is the deer species that was thought to be extinct there and they found a population in the mountains!
The same for southeastern Turkey or southwestern Turkmanistan which has an extremely low population density!
I don't want to go around in circles here but until every inch of central asia and middle east are properly searched i won't believe they are extinct!
The Caspian Tiger (Panthera tigris virgata)
