There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(01-06-2016, 03:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: I certainly wouldn't put an entire pride of females at 170kg and 250kg for males, thats just to high. Maybe a couple of specimens here or there, but certainly not an entire pride.
And Dereck and Beverly aren't biologist correct, just film makers. And to my knowledge they haven't been involved with any weighing of Lions so I would certainly take any estimate with a grain of salt, especially ones ranging that high.
I would take packers word in regards to Ngorngoro Lions being the largest, at least in terms of chest girth.
But like we see with Kaziranga Tigers, the marshy terrain seems to contribute to larger animals but still unproven, so who knows for sure.
Prey species and abundance will be the number 1 factor in my opinion and all animals need water, so that could play a factor as well.
I concur. I don't really think there are any random group of big cats (whether lions or tigers, a pride or a strike) where each male member of the entire group weighs over 250kg. That's too unrealistic for even a single male from a male coalition, and many reports tell of lions weighing at 230, 250, 270+ kg but most of these reports are simply over-estimations based on the cat's size. A 400 pound lion or tiger is HUGE enough to make an average person easily mistake them for 500 or even 600 pounds.
Across lion subspecies in Africa, I've noticed the Southwest (Okavango and Kalahari) lions tend to be somewhat longer like a tiger, yet less chest girth than an equally weighted Ngorngoro lion. Specifically, the skulls of Kalahari lions are bigger in proportion to head-body length than the Okavango lions (and I don't know about Kalahari vs Ngorngoro head-to-body proportionality, though), yet the Okavango lions are more muscled and heavier by at most 20kg on average. A Ngorngoro lion tends to be slimmer at the waist, and looks more like a robust tiger in terms of chest girth. About forequarters, Okavango lions seem to bear the largest, but not a difference too significant amongst them and the other two. It's not like the difference between a tiger's forequarters and those of a lions' while both cats are equally weighted, being that the tiger's is much more significantly larger under this condition. Just an observation.
Pckts is correct about marshy habitats contributing to a larger size within an animal population since marshy habitats also draw bigger prey (whom, in turn, need copious amounts of water), but I'm not so sure about a larger sexual dimorphism (SVTIGRIS suggested at the beginning of this thread that sexual dimorphism among Okavango lions is less pronounced than in other lion populations.)
An average size lion or tiger of the larger eco-types is 180-200 kg , animals 200-230 kg are definitely large, and over that are huge and rare and do not have any importance .
I totally agree with you on how the average person overestimates the size...this why only scientifically measurements are to be considered....hunters, filmmakers, photographers, rangers, Safari operators, NGOs, and guides their readings have the same value if they were quoted by Lionel Messi or Lebron James.
I showed a picture of an Amur tiger measured at 206 kg to several lay people and got everything from 250 to 400 kg!!!
Again the habitat issue does not explain why Kalahari and Etosha lions are comparable in size to Okavango and Hwange lions, the desert habitat still has elephants, giraffes, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok,eland and springbuck to provide for some of the largest lions, leopards, cheetahs, and hyenas!! Genetics continue to be the main factor.
And this fetish for larger animals is baffling, we still need to care the same way for a 200 lbs tiger and a 600 lbs one.
Size of Okavango Delta Lions and Lionesses
