(11-04-2015, 04:47 AM)SVTIGRIS Wrote: I've heard a bit of the exceptional size of Okavango Lions and lionesses and that they are some of the biggest cats in the world. This is due to big prey in buffalo and it being hard to move around in the marshes strengthening the animals when they do. Maybe as they're more aquatic this may strengthen them too. I've even heard the lionesses are nearly the same size as the mainland males! We all know about the Duba's as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-392292/The-superlions-marooned-island.html

(01-06-2016, 03:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: I certainly wouldn't put an entire pride of females at 170kg and 250kg for males, thats just to high. Maybe a couple of specimens here or there, but certainly not an entire pride. 

And Dereck and Beverly aren't biologist correct, just film makers. And to my knowledge they haven't been involved with any weighing of Lions so I would certainly take any estimate with a grain of salt, especially ones ranging that high.
I would take packers word in regards to Ngorngoro Lions being the largest, at least in terms of chest girth.
But like we see with Kaziranga Tigers, the marshy terrain seems to contribute to larger animals but still unproven, so who knows for sure.
Prey species and abundance will be the number 1 factor in my opinion and all animals need water, so that could play a factor as well.

(01-06-2016, 03:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: I certainly wouldn't put an entire pride of females at 170kg and 250kg for males, thats just to high. Maybe a couple of specimens here or there, but certainly not an entire pride. 

And Dereck and Beverly aren't biologist correct, just film makers. And to my knowledge they haven't been involved with any weighing of Lions so I would certainly take any estimate with a grain of salt, especially ones ranging that high.
I would take packers word in regards to Ngorngoro Lions being the largest, at least in terms of chest girth.
But like we see with Kaziranga Tigers, the marshy terrain seems to contribute to larger animals but still unproven, so who knows for sure.
Prey species and abundance will be the number 1 factor in my opinion and all animals need water, so that could play a factor as well.

(01-07-2016, 04:17 AM)Polar Wrote:

(01-06-2016, 03:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: I certainly wouldn't put an entire pride of females at 170kg and 250kg for males, thats just to high. Maybe a couple of specimens here or there, but certainly not an entire pride. 

And Dereck and Beverly aren't biologist correct, just film makers. And to my knowledge they haven't been involved with any weighing of Lions so I would certainly take any estimate with a grain of salt, especially ones ranging that high.
I would take packers word in regards to Ngorngoro Lions being the largest, at least in terms of chest girth.
But like we see with Kaziranga Tigers, the marshy terrain seems to contribute to larger animals but still unproven, so who knows for sure.
Prey species and abundance will be the number 1 factor in my opinion and all animals need water, so that could play a factor as well.

I concur. I don't really think there are any random group of big cats (whether lions or tigers, a pride or a strike) where each male member of the entire group weighs over 250kg. That's too unrealistic for even a single male from a male coalition, and many reports tell of lions weighing at 230, 250, 270+ kg but most of these reports are simply over-estimations based on the cat's size. A 400 pound lion or tiger is HUGE enough to make an average person easily mistake them for 500 or even 600 pounds. 

Across lion subspecies in Africa, I've noticed the Southwest (Okavango and Kalahari) lions tend to be somewhat longer like a tiger, yet less chest girth than an equally weighted Ngorngoro lion. Specifically, the skulls of Kalahari lions are bigger in proportion to head-body length than the Okavango lions (and I don't know about Kalahari vs Ngorngoro head-to-body proportionality, though), yet the Okavango lions are more muscled and heavier by at most 20kg on average. A Ngorngoro lion tends to be slimmer at the waist, and looks more like a robust tiger in terms of chest girth. About forequarters, Okavango lions seem to bear the largest, but not a difference too significant amongst them and the other two. It's not like the difference between a tiger's forequarters and those of a lions' while both cats are equally weighted, being that the tiger's is much more significantly larger under this condition. Just an observation.

Pckts is correct about marshy habitats contributing to a larger size within an animal population since marshy habitats also draw bigger prey (whom, in turn, need copious amounts of water), but I'm not so sure about a larger sexual dimorphism (SVTIGRIS suggested at the beginning of this thread that sexual dimorphism among Okavango lions is less pronounced than in other lion populations.)

(01-07-2016, 08:28 PM)LionKiss Wrote: getting permission to dart a lion is probably the most serious problem
but it is not difficult as soon as it is anesthetized, there are portable scales 

it is not difficult for a team of 4-5 persons to use something like this, 
https://www.google.gr/search?q=portable+heavy+weight+crane&biw=1366&bih=632&tbm=isch&imgil=BO2_e6bs0Z7N5M%253A%253Bv0o1j3NVpZhdCM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.digital-weighingscale.com%25252Fsale-2894521-customized-accurate-heavy-duty-light-weight-rotated-hook-scale-electronic-crane-scale-3t-5t-10t.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=BO2_e6bs0Z7N5M%253A%252Cv0o1j3NVpZhdCM%252C_&usg=__p3BqOHCOD70W0N-zRKf13WV9SUY%3D#imgrc=BO2_e6bs0Z7N5M%3A&usg=__p3BqOHCOD70W0N-zRKf13WV9SUY%3D

(01-30-2016, 11:55 PM)Dr Panthera Wrote:

(01-06-2016, 03:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: I certainly wouldn't put an entire pride of females at 170kg and 250kg for males, thats just to high. Maybe a couple of specimens here or there, but certainly not an entire pride. 

And Dereck and Beverly aren't biologist correct, just film makers. And to my knowledge they haven't been involved with any weighing of Lions so I would certainly take any estimate with a grain of salt, especially ones ranging that high.
I would take packers word in regards to Ngorngoro Lions being the largest, at least in terms of chest girth.
But like we see with Kaziranga Tigers, the marshy terrain seems to contribute to larger animals but still unproven, so who knows for sure.
Prey species and abundance will be the number 1 factor in my opinion and all animals need water, so that could play a factor as well.

Dereck Joubert is in fact a biologist and a geologist , he obtained his degree in a university in Johansburgh and worked with lions in Mala Mala and Kruger before studying them in Botswana since 1981, he discovered he could earn much more money becoming a film maker than publishing studies so he did so with his photographer wife Beverley and they  won 13 Emmys .He provides much of the scientific content of their books.
The pride in question is the Tsaro pride seven huge lionesses and two colossal males , the two other prides in Duba have members that are of average size and the size difference is evident in  the film and book " Relentless Enemies" in confrontation between the members of the prides: The Tsaro lions are much larger than their neighbours , then again, these are only nine lions who eat a cape buffalo every other day and work for it by swimming in deep cold water , they are super athletic but have never been measured.
I was fortunate to see lions in Ngorongoro Crater and they are massive, but the trophy records are similar to southern Africa.
Genetics remain the deciding factor for example the Okavango lions ( Delta and flooded marsh habitat) are not larger than the Kalahari lions ( Desert with poor prey base ).
The largest free ranging lion was a 272 kg post prime old male that lived in a mountain area near mount Kenya and killed livestock, his skeleton is at the Osteology department of the national museum of Kenya in Nairobi....(old age, East Africa, Poor Prey base, no access to buffalo,giraffe, nor elephants...yet he was the biggest ( Gnoske and Peterhans) , individual exceptions are always there but if I compare all the records I have seen I would put Hwange,Etosha, and Ngorongoro lions at the top