Bear Strength

[Shadow]

(09-12-2019, 08:20 PM)johnny rex Wrote:

(09-12-2019, 08:00 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(09-11-2019, 10:45 AM)johnny rex Wrote:

(09-06-2019, 12:05 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(09-05-2019, 11:32 PM)johnny rex Wrote:

(09-05-2019, 08:28 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(09-05-2019, 05:15 PM)johnny rex Wrote:

(02-02-2019, 07:07 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Dog got pinned several times by a Black bear cub.

Bears can be said as natural born wrestlers. Just look at how male bears fight with each other. Those "paw swipes that break bones" stories maybe are just exaggerations, bears tend to use their forelimbs to hold and wrestle prey or competitor to the ground not swiping hard.

Look when wolves harass bears and you see swipes too. It is of course one thing to swipe and another to hit. But when swipe hits where it is meant to and behind that swipe is, let´s say 800-1000 pounds of weight, anyone can make a guess how many swipes are needed to finish for instance a wolf. It is a bit same like for instance with lions. I have seen only one documentary showing how male lion broke back of hyena with one paw swipe.

In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgjd7Ouce3Y at aroudn 6:18, it seems the bear used their paws to deter the wolves by clawing them downward. Swipe, according to my understanding, is when someone or something swinging left and right. But bears almost never use their paw as their main "weapons". It seems bears didn't give much force behind their paws when they are trying to fend off competitors. It is more like a push to me though. In most videos, bears rely on their "wrestling" and teeth.

I was replying to it, that can bears break bones with swipe and do they use swipe. And bears do use also swipe, when they deal with problems. It is another thing if we start to talk about it, that how they fight with another bears, how do they fight usually and so on. Still fact remains, that swipe is one thing what they do and use. When there is something fast and agile which is almost impossible to catch in other way, swiping is pretty much only thing left. With wolves that can be seen, I am pretty sure, that if looking more videos there is also that. Why I am sure? Because I have discussed with people, who have seen it happen even though not always getting it on video. And I have seen it on some videos too.

Then what can it cause, that of course depends, as said, about luck too. Bear has enough strength, but it still demands also a good hit to break bones. 

Then what comes to that documentary which I mentioned, I saw it 20-25 years ago, when youtube was at best a wet dream of some computer-/programming expert :) I haven´t seen it in youtube. But it was an incident at night, a lion pride was eating on some carcass and pride male was at that time sleeping nearby. Narrator told how about 60 hyenas gathered around that pride. They started to move closer and finally that male lion got irritated enough. It stood up and approached from behind of hyenas and as far as I remember  some hyenas didn´t notice it until a split second before it was there and one was then too slow. It was one swipe and that hyena was done. Not dead, but spine was broken. That is this far only time I have seen it happen, but very impressive thing to remember. 

My point is in this, that it is one thing to talk about it, that how these predators usually do things. Then it is another thing to talk about it, that what they are capable to do, even though if it is something we see more rarely.

I made a simple google search: bear, swipe. This isn´t left to right, but I hope that right to left is also good enough

 

In this at about 1:05-1:10 one quick swipe, more for clawing I think.

Here one photo from article where photographer is telling how a bear swiped the wolf even though missing. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/a/2016080922051005

In this article a nature photographer describes one confrontation between bears and wolves in which bear tries to swipe wolves more than once and one time just missed the head of the wolf. Wolves are usually able to dodge, but when not, they tend to learn to fly short distances. Some times they are done, sometimes able to flee or stunned for a moment.

This quote is in finnish, I can translate it later, you can try google translator too if you like, but it is with Finnish quite interesting :)

"Reilun kymmenen kilon lihapala pysyy visusti sen hampaiden välissä samalla kun se huitaisee etutassullaan tiedustelijaan päin.

Susitrio yrittää samaa taktiikkaa useaan kertaan. Joka kerta lopputulos on sama. Lopulta myös lauman vanhempi uros yrittää napata otsoa takamuksesta. Tällä kertaa otson oikea suora viiltää ilmaa aivan hukan pään vierestä. Edelleen karhu pitää saaliin hampaissaan."

https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2016/09/29/kimmo-ohtonen-ja-susilauman-syksy


In this case a man was gathering berries in the woods when a bear approached from back and swiped/hit this man on arm briefly. Man fell on ground but got only some wounds. Officials suspected, that it was a mother bear and that this man managed to get in between of mother and cubs. Luckily in this case bear was more or less just giving a "warning", maybe a bit unsure about the threat this man was representing. If it would have wanted to kill that man, he would have got more than just one light swipe.

https://www.ts.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/3605060/Karhu+tuli+takaa+ja+loi+marjastajan+jankaan+Sodankylassa


In this case bear made a mock charge and swiped a man once to leg, man fell and hurt his knees but no serious injuries.

https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000000796111.html


This is quote from official site in Finland, concerning bears, wolves, lynxes and wolverines. Information there is approved by biologists, zoologists, experienced hunters etc. people who spend a lot of time time in the woods and observe these animals.

"The bear kills its prey by biting it in the neck or back. It can also kill the prey animal with a strike of its forepaw, which is often enough to break the animal's spine."

http://www.largecarnivores.fi/species/brown-bear/bears-diet-and-hunting-behaviour.html

I can see big cats and bears breaking smaller animals' spine with paw swipes though, but not larger animals.

Yes of course smaller animals are easier. I will ask if there is more accurate information. It is rare to get on film situations where bears kill bigger animals and naturally usually they take down bigger prey by biting, clawing and "wrestling". It´s easy to think, that a deer would collapse also if swipe is full force and accurate hit, but if talking about moose it´s a very strong animal too. Bears are known to break their necks, but it has to be by biting and/or wrenching it until it snaps. When looking at some cow carcasses killed by bears, they have nasty bites on backside of neck. 
I try to ask from people who know better. In most cases carcasses are found in the woods and cause of death has to be concluded from injuries which can be seen on carcass. Very rare to get hunting bear filmed even though some footage can be found. I don´t see it as totally impossible when talking about moose, but if there are cases, then those are very lucky bears, I can´t see it to happen unless a perfect hit to right place.

I remember somewhere in this forum where someone posted a picture of a brown bear attacking a moose. I think the bear is attacking the neck part of the moose. The moose is larger than the bear.

Brown Bears from about 150 kg have been seen to kill even adult moose. Adult moose is of course a big animal, but if bear is 300-400 kg it is a different story. Also it is one thing if bear is 2 meters tall when on hind legs or if it is 2,5 meters. Shoulder height of adult moose is about 180-210 cm if I remember right. Reply