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Biggest Kaziranga tiger?

peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-04-2014, 08:23 PM by peter )

(12-04-2014, 10:27 AM)'johnny rex' Wrote: @Pckts Male tiger (Bengal and Siberian tigers) and lion (Kruger lions) skulls both average 15-16. Some specimen even go to 17 inches. Just like most of the male ligers. Skull width tend to be the same for those three animals except tigers or maybe some ligers tend to have much wider skull. If I am not mistaken I saw a picture showed two circus lions and a liger, and there were no differences between the sizes of their heads eventhough the lion head looked a little bit longer. I will try to find the photo and then I will post it later.
 

Hi Johnny, Hope you like it here.  

1 - Greatest skull length of Indian tigers, Amurs and lions 

I have well over hundred reliable measurements of skulls of wild male Indian tigers. Although they average well over 14 inches in greatest total length, the average for all, as Pocock (1929) suggested, could be just about 14 inches. The average of skulls of captive male Indian tigers is a bit below 14 inches. Wild skulls are larger (and much heavier), that is.
 
In Amur tigers, it's the other way round. Skulls of captive adult males are about 14,5 inches in greatest total length, whereas skulls of wild males seem (I never measured skulls of wild Amur tigers, meaning I'm not sure about this statement) to be a bit shorter. Although they are longer than most male skulls of captive Indian tigers, they are not as robust. In upper and lower canine length, however, Amur tiger skulls are unsurpassed. 

Over the years, I measured many big cat skulls in museums and private collections. The largest skulls (wild or captive) are always lion skulls. There's no question lions, at the level of species, have longer skulls than tigers. This is in absolutes. Same for relatives, because lions usually are a bit shorter in head and body length. Skulls of wild male lions in south-east Africa quite often get to 14,75 inches. The longest I measured, however, was from Ethiopia. This skull was just over 16 inches. Skulls of captive animals seem to be longer than wild skulls. The reason is lions, in contrast to tigers (with the exception of Amur tigers), often do well in captivity. Same for skulls. In beauty and density (weight), however, captive skulls do not compare to wild skulls.

In absolutes, the difference in greatest total length between most skulls of wild male lions and most skulls of wild male tigers (of large subspecies) is limited. Could be just about 1 cm., I think. The longest Indian tiger skull (Hewett, 1938) was 16,25 inches. I never saw one, but expect wild Amur tigers could be similar or a trifle longer, because Amur tigers usually are a bit longer. The longest skulls of wild lions are a trifle longer (up to 16,5 inches or a bit over, with one, though unconfirmed, at 17 inches). 


2 - SKULL STRUCTURE

Lion skulls are longer, because they have longer snouts (extended maxillary bone). Tiger snouts usually are a bit wider just in front of the canines. The reason is they have larger canines. Large canines need a larger platform and a bit of reinforcement. In zygomatic width, there's little to choose between the two. Relatively speaking, one could say tiger skulls are a bit wider and be right. The reason is they are usually a bit shorter. 

Lions, so it seems, use their skull in a slightly different way. Tigers are one-time biters who usually kill with the initial bite, whereas lions operate in the bite and jerk division. Tigers, for this reason, need large canines, a platform for the canines (a wide and reinforced rostrum) and a clear vault (in order to penetrate with maximum force), whereas lions need some kind of reinforment in order to withstand the pressure exercised in long struggles. For this reason, the central part of the skull (the os frontalis), usually is a bit wider and stronger in lion skulls. Both big cats have large and strong crests, but in lions the sagittal crest usually is high and straight, whereas it is a bit lower, but slightly thicker in tigers. The crest usually is vaulted as well, but that could be a result of the shape of the skull (tigers have more vaulted skulls dominated by vertical lines, whereas lion skulls are dominated by horizontal lines). Bears, not accomplished predators, differ from both big cats in that the posterior (back) part of the skull usually is enforced. They have the largest and heaviest skulls.

So what we see is rounded, vaulted and shortened faces with big canines in true cats (solitary hunters), a reinforced central part in social cats (group hunters) and a reinforced posterior part in omnivores (opportunistic hunters). True hunters can't use superfluous weight, meaning the skull is very functional and not reinforced all over. This will usually result in less weight. The less specialized the hunter, the longer and stronger the skull.

The long muzzle in lions could be a result of display (a large face always helps), whereas it probably is a result of a great nose in bears (if your hunting is below par but you need meat to maintain your size, you could always go for a great nose and follow it). In conflicts, of course, a long nose is not what you would have selected, especially when your opponent has large canines and no bones for noses.  

    
3 - LIGERS AND TIGONS

I saw a few skulls of ligers and tigons. All were shorter than an average lion or tiger skull. The exceptional animals who feature in many debates about freaks (referring to ligers, tigons and all the rest of it) are few and far between. But when they are large, they are larger than the largest lion or tiger. I saw many and felt pity for them. The reason is they belong nowhere. And they know.

The photograph of the tigon was first posted by me on AVA some years ago. It was a very large male, but he was the exception to the rule. Ligers usually are larger.

When you debate freaks, remember they, apart from one (a mix between a wild Indian tiger and a wild Indian leopard seen by Hicks more than a century ago), are never seen in the wild. Mixes are a result of captivity and humans. For every giant you see, there are many disabled and blind animals.

Here's the story about the mix Hicks saw in India:



*This image is copyright of its original author


 
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Messages In This Thread
Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 08:36 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 09:13 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 09:16 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 10:02 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 10:04 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 10:07 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 10:17 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 10:19 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 10:23 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 10:35 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 10:42 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Apollo - 07-01-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 11:02 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 11:27 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-01-2014, 11:37 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 11:50 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-01-2014, 11:57 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-02-2014, 12:15 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - TheLioness - 07-02-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-02-2014, 01:19 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-02-2014, 01:31 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-02-2014, 02:04 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-02-2014, 02:21 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Amnon242 - 07-02-2014, 06:45 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-02-2014, 07:11 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-02-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - TheLioness - 07-02-2014, 01:32 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-02-2014, 01:40 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Jubatus - 07-02-2014, 02:11 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - TheLioness - 07-02-2014, 09:15 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-02-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-02-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 07-02-2014, 08:50 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-02-2014, 09:43 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-30-2014, 02:53 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Roflcopters - 07-30-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - chaos - 07-30-2014, 06:22 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-30-2014, 09:44 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - chaos - 07-30-2014, 10:11 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-30-2014, 10:26 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-30-2014, 09:33 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - chaos - 07-30-2014, 11:07 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 07-31-2014, 12:31 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 08-15-2014, 09:21 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - tigerluver - 08-15-2014, 09:44 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 08-15-2014, 11:57 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 10-10-2014, 02:42 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 10-10-2014, 02:44 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 10-20-2014, 09:59 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Roflcopters - 10-22-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 10-23-2014, 10:58 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-01-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - GuateGojira - 12-01-2014, 07:52 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-01-2014, 11:20 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-01-2014, 11:46 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-06-2014, 12:22 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-02-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-02-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-02-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-03-2014, 12:13 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-04-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - peter - 12-04-2014, 07:25 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - GuateGojira - 12-04-2014, 10:39 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Richardrli - 12-04-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-04-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-04-2014, 11:29 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - sanjay - 12-04-2014, 11:41 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-04-2014, 07:48 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - GuateGojira - 12-04-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-04-2014, 07:59 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - peter - 12-04-2014, 08:32 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Apollo - 12-05-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - GuateGojira - 12-06-2014, 09:31 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-06-2014, 10:25 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-06-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-06-2014, 08:43 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-09-2014, 12:26 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - johnny rex - 12-06-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - tigerluver - 12-09-2014, 12:47 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-09-2014, 02:04 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-09-2014, 04:35 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-09-2014, 10:46 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-14-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 12-15-2014, 10:07 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 04-30-2015, 11:31 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - parvez - 11-02-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 05-13-2015, 04:05 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 05-13-2015, 09:36 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - sanjay - 05-13-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 05-14-2015, 12:56 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pantherinae - 05-14-2015, 02:22 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Roflcopters - 11-02-2016, 02:10 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - parvez - 11-02-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 11-02-2016, 06:19 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - parvez - 11-02-2016, 05:21 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - parvez - 11-02-2016, 08:15 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 11-03-2016, 02:59 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - smedz - 02-01-2019, 07:01 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Spalea - 04-16-2020, 03:04 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Dark Jaguar - 04-16-2020, 08:08 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - SuSpicious - 04-16-2020, 11:33 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Pckts - 04-16-2020, 11:43 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Roflcopters - 04-16-2020, 06:33 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - GuateGojira - 05-11-2020, 07:34 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Spalea - 05-14-2020, 07:49 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Balam - 06-01-2020, 09:42 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Shadow - 08-21-2020, 04:18 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Shadow - 09-03-2020, 10:08 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - ganidat - 04-04-2021, 10:05 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Greatearth - 05-22-2021, 07:14 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - ganidat - 05-22-2021, 08:26 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Charger01 - 05-22-2021, 02:58 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - SuSpicious - 07-30-2021, 12:20 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Charger01 - 07-30-2021, 05:41 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - Roflcopters - 11-20-2021, 02:12 PM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - juhu2010 - 07-11-2022, 08:26 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - juhu2010 - 07-13-2022, 07:25 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - juhu2010 - 07-15-2022, 11:47 AM
RE: Biggest Kaziranga tiger? - sanjay - 04-22-2024, 08:59 AM



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