Big cat and Bear tale

[Haymaker]

(03-21-2017, 10:46 PM)peter Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 09:13 PM)Haymaker Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 08:45 PM)sanjay Wrote: First, I don't know where to post this awesome video.
This is latest sensational video of a male tiger fighting with male Sloth Bear in night. Both fight very well and sloth bear gives a good fight but tiger stood its ground.
I must say that this is very very rare video and we must enjoy it.

Please share this thread to your friends :)

That's a great video, you can see the speed at which the tiger strikes.  That certainly helped it in fending off the bear, as the bear came forward the tiger looked like it was going to rear up, but the bear came charging in lower, then the tiger sort of struck the sides of the bears head and gripped also.  It seems like the tiger submitted by lowering itself, but then the bear walked away later in the other direction, before it made a few displays of aggression.  If you look closely after the bear backed the tiger up, it makes that later display of aggression in the spot light of the car, when it does that, watch the tiger, the tiger drops down into submission.

After the bear leaves the tiger gets up and walks across the road.  These bears really aren't that big, so honestly the tiger should fair well, because both seem to be similar size.  But either way, awesome rare video, great find!!

HAYMAKER

For someone claiming to know a bit about the noble art of self defence, the interpretation you offered is, ehhh, quite peculiar. If we add the crap posts on 900-pound wild lions and all the rest you picked up in the books written by a man who developed a serious dislike for stripes over time, I can only get to an agenda. We don't like agendas over here. You was told in a pm, you got another warning after a crap post and when that had no effect a one week holiday was the result.  

We met before. It resulted in a ban. I don't mind you giving it another try but it seems you, obsessionwise, didn't learn one thing. My advice is to quit crapping around and start contributing good information. 

And quit the phony questions as well. You want to know about size? Read the extinction and modern weights threads. You want to know about tigers and bears in the Russian far East? Read the extinction thread.

If you continue you way you did, I would start thinking about buying a 900-pound pet lion to keep you company in the near future. One with no mane, so you can get an idea about the muscle department on top of the shoulders.

VIDEO

As to the video. It starts with a sloth bear crossing the road from left to right for a demonstration and it ends with a tiger crossing the road from right to left and no bear to demonstrate. Meaning Baloo didn't have a good day at the office.

Was the exchange a result of predation gone wrong? I didn't see any predation. A tiger doing predation isn't going for a confrontation. A tiger interested in predation will try to get in at an angle and move for a position enabling him to finish the opponent as quickly as possible. He would also show aggression. He most definitely will not allow the intended victim to do a few statements. 

Was it a fight then? In order to get to an opinion, one should have watched a few fights in which tigers were involved. I saw a few and heard a lot more from people who saw much more than all of us combined. A tiger involved in a real fight roars and gives it everything he has. So much so, that it results in a lot of breaks. It's something that can continue for a very long time. Those who witness a real fight very often move out a quick as possible, bars or no bars. I know, because I saw it more than once. The reason? Fear. 

But the bear committed himself, no? No, he didn't. The bear responded in the way every bear would do when suddenly confronted in that he tried to bluff his way out of trouble. This is not something that adult males only do. It's engrained in every bear, young or old, male or female. They stand on their hind legs and attack their opponent with everything they have. Does it work? Most certainly. That's why all of them do it. Same for captive bears.

Tigers, on the other hand, only fight animals they dislike. It would take quite a dislike to go for an all-out. Few tigers will accept a challenge of a bear for no reason at all and bears knows. A bear suddenly confronted by a tiger usually bluffs his way out. But a demonstration is different from a fight. An average male Indian tiger is larger and heavier than an average male sloth bear. Not saying it would be a very one-sided affair, but I've yet to read a report about an adult tiger killed by a sloth bear.   

Although the strategy works for bears most of the time, it has disadvantages. The bear in the video nearly paid when he overplayed his hand. If the tiger would have been committed, it could have ended right at the start of the video. My guess is the bear knew the tiger wasn't committed. A bear of similar size confronted by a smaller tigress with cubs would have thought twice.  

So what was going on then? I don't know, but it seemed like the bear was harrassed. He tried to find a way out and secure a safe retreat. The tiger, as can be seen, avoided direct contact, but not quite in that he didn't intend to pull out of it. Every time the bear came for him, he retreated a bit and laid down. Tigers involved in a confrontation that didn't yet result in a fight often wait for their opponent to make a move. Same with man-eaters and tigers cornered by humans with dogs: they often wait for the other to make a move. It's a game of nerves.

After every demonstration, the tiger moved forward. The distance between both animals never exceeded 30 feet or so. The tiger kept the pressure up, that is. In the end, the bear moved out and that was the end of it. Could have been a conflict about space. Tigers often 'probe' opponents or 'guide' them out of their territory. 

I don't think tigers see sloth bears as competitors, but it's well-known that they do not get along with them. And the other way round. They could be competitors in the dominance department. When things are unclear in this respect, a confrontation can be the result. Some of these can develop into a fight. Billy Arjan Singh heard an angry tigress roar during a lengthy fight one evening. He found the bear next morning. Some male tigers can develop a taste for bears, but incidents of this kind are few and far between in India.

We need a bit more on both animals in order to be able to understand why the confrontation filmed happened. 

What we don't need is preferenced posters with bulky agendas going for misinformation right away. This is a forum. Not some bloody You Tube channel.

Not sure I understand where you're coming from here, just expressing my opinion of what happened in the fight, I don't think its that big of a deal, it was a short exchange, maybe it was a draw, I just thought the bear had the edge in the way it backed up the tiger.  As well I think the strategy of coming in with the head down is particularly smart as it protects the throat area. My view point is slightly jaded in the sense that Ive seen many bear vs tiger accounts, even sloth bears, and the bears almost always won, so when I view this video, it seems to confirm some of that.  The tiger doesn't look like it really wants to tangle with this bear, and even if it could win, I think the bear would mortally wound the tiger in the process.  So the tiger knows that and that's probably why its keep its distance.  And again, if you want proof, there is plenty of it, if you have proof of tigers killing sloth bears just post it.

As far as meeting before or being someone else, who exactly is that, who are you're talking about?  You should prove what you're saying not just speak out of your hat.  As far as the 900 lb lions, I don't actually believe those accounts, that was my conversation with the other guy on here, he doesn't believe the 850 lb tiger either, neither does Craig Lugwig or Sunquist.  I don't either, it says the tiger was probably actually 700 lbs, I could more believe that. I recently just checked one of the biggest recent captive tigers named Conan at Bigcat Habitat, he was around 700lbs or a little over, but it was clear this cat was neutered. Yet another lion there the same weight, was not neutered.  So I think this is informative information.  There is a lot of weights that people are throwing around, and it was not till I saw this guy on yes youtube, did I see the argument made of  debating only scientific weights. Reply